BelgianPup

1. What is my relationship with the breed? (ie breeder, first time owner etc) First time golden owner. 2. Where and why was the breed first developed? Developed to retrieve water birds for hunters. 3. How common is it in Australia? Very common, with the misconception that they are the ideal family pet (they are fantastic but like all dogs need training and boundaries) they have been over bred by puppy farmers. 4. What is the average lifespan? 11 - 14 yrs 5. What is the general temperament/personality? Enthusiastic and outgoing. Always friendly and eager to please. Can be whingy and demanding at times (maybe that's just our boy! He only 18months.) 6. How much daily exercise is needed for the average adult? 20 - 40 min. Our boy is happy if we walk and happy if we don't. (If we don't walk him we play with him and train him, also he lives with a very active Belgian so maybe his physical activity needs would be different if he didn't have her egging him on!) 7. Is it a breed that a first time dog owner could easily cope with? Yes, provided they are prepared to train them and are aware the puppy phase lasts a few years! 8. Can solo dogs of this breed easily occupy themselves for long periods? Yes. They sleep a lot but in their awake periods need to have something to occupy themselves with - give them something acceptable or they will become destructive. 9. How much grooming is required? Twice weekly brushing but in shedding times or hot weather it is daily. 10. Is it too boisterous for very small children or for infirm people (unless the dog is well trained)? Due to their size and general enthusiasm they are definitely too boisterous if not trained. At 18months our boy loves kids but occasionally forgets his size and crazy tail! 11. Are there any common hereditary problems a puppy buyer should be aware of? Hips and elbows.

1. What is my relationship with the breed? (ie breeder, first time owner etc) Long time admirer, first time owner. (Groendael bitch) 2. Where and why was the breed first developed? Multi- purpose herding dog in Belgium. Breed as we know it developed in 1800s and into early 1900s. 3. How common is it in Australia? Not very common, however, not so rare that you want see other Belgians out and about. 4. What is the average lifespan? 12 - 15yrs 5. What is the general temperament/personality? Reserved with strangers but should not be shy or agressive. Very intelligent and inquisitive they respond well to training and thrive on mental stimulation. They are unfailingly loyal and sensitive to their owners moods and are happiest when included in the day to day lives of their household. They can possess 'atittude' and will tell you loudly if they do not wish to do something yet they happy when working and are generally biddable. 6. How much daily exercise is needed for the average adult? 30min physical activity but more importantly they need mental stimulation (training, games etc.) 7. Is it a breed that a first time dog owner could easily cope with? Not recommeded for first time dog owner. 8. Can solo dogs of this breed easily occupy themselves for long periods? They can, however, ensure they have interesting toys to entertain themselves with or they can be come destructive and bored. Ideally they would not be isolated all the time. 9. How much grooming is required? Much less than I hjad anticpated! When not shedding (which happens twice a year) a good brush once a week is sufficent. 10. Is it too boisterous for very small children or for infirm people (unless the dog is well trained)? If well trained they are fine, however, as with any young dog they can be overly excited and while untrained would be too boisterous for small children. 11. Are there any common hereditary problems a puppy buyer should be aware of? Check parents hips scores. 12. When buying a puppy, what are the things you should ask of the breeder? (eg what health tests have been done (if applicable) and what is an acceptable result to those tests so the buyer has an idea of what the result should be) hips scores are a min req. NB There is strong anecdotal evidence to suggest that Belgians experience an increased sensitivity to anaesthetic. From what I've read they respond best when 'sight hound protocols' are followed, which was explained to me as the drugs being administered slowly to effect rather than based on the dogs weight.

Our pups love plastic bottles... they roll and can be chased and when chewed make a great noise (not so great from our perspective, lol,) we also have a paddling pool (plastic shell) which we set up on warm days. The older pup LOVES it, haven't tried it with the new one. They also love playing tug with us and with each other.

Puppy and Belgian get along very well. She is very gentle with him when they play but yes we also wondered about leaving them together while he is still very young. We are just starting to leave them out together for longer periods of time. THanks for the advice

We have a 10 week old golden puppy. We've had him since he was 8 weeks old. My partner and I have been fortunate enough to have 3 weeks off work (1 week left) so puppy has had lots of human time. We've started leaving him alone for small lengths of time, well, seperate from humans, lol, he's with our 18month old Belgian. This week we plan on increasing the time he's without us. When we go back to work he will be 11 weeks. Is this too young to leave out in the yard during the day? (Puppy proof yard with large warm kennel for both dogs.) He is currently escaping the 'puppy barriers' inside (we are purchasing a crate asap) but obviously crating an 11 week old puppy for 8hrs or more seems too much of a strain on his bladder! Advice and experiences appreciated

I would love to have my Belgian get her CCD and maybe CD in 2009... However, at the very least I want to start trialling in 2009. Lol, tis my first time so I think I am more unsure than she is about the whole thing!

I wouldn't use more than a flat collar on a puppy. Check chains, if you know how to use them, can be a useful tool with some dogs. I agree. Check chains can be very effective if used properly - but must be used properly and certainly it seems highly unlikely to need one on a pup. We used positive rewards with our Belgian - and a harsh 'NO' when she did something wrong. When she was older, at the recommendation of our trainer, we began using a check chain.

For the owners- do you expect a trainer to give you a guarantee regarding solving problems with your dog? Simply - no. However, I do expect a guarantee of professional responsible service (lol, clearly not legally binding -just good customer service!) Both of which our trainer provides Honestly I would be suspicious of a trainer who offered a guarantee to fix a behavioural problem - how would you assess and enforce a legally binding guarantee? Especially as the dog interacts with its environment and people (primarily its owners.) I would be curious to hear from trainers who do offer legally binding guarantees for behavioural issues... What are the terms of your contracts? Is it a 'life time' guarantee or can certain actions/events void the guarantee?

This worked with our puppy... Maybe it will help We put the lead on when she was - a) too tired to care (and watched her carefully so she wouldn't get tangled if she fell aspleep) b) happily distracted by something far more interesting... fav toy, fun game with human, interesting smells in front yard etc It took perserverence and dedicated distractive efforts on our behalf but was effective. Also when your pup is able to go out hopefully it will ralise the big wide world is far more intgeresting and only accessible via the lead... (to begin with anyway!)

A suggestion only: (sounds like the kids may be too scared to do this...) If they were to hold a toy when the puppy was near tyhem so it could focus on that rather than them and they may feel like they have a bit of a barrier and Bruce's attention is clearly not on them then? lol, but why take an amateur's 2c worth? :D I can highly recommend Cosmolo from Underdog training as not just a 'good' trainer but an excellent one :D Good luck

A little off topic... but would appreciate it if someone could tell me what the following stands for :D 'CAO, LGD, ASD; (lol, I recognise GSD...) Thanks :D

We use devon lunch meat - our belgian loves it. The bredders use cooked liver, lambs fry, chicken etc Having said that our girl is far more toy motivated than food oriented! She has been known to glance at the proffered food reward then wait for toy reward! My OH family has 2 golden retrievers, kibble and dried liver treats are all it takes for them!

Growing up we had a BC X Irish Setter. We got her when she was 6 yrs old. She was incredibly sweet and gentle and very friendly to everyone. However, if my brother and I (I'm the oldest and at this stage was still bigger than him) were play fighting (or real fighting) she would grab me by my clothing (ALWAYS the clothing... a sleeve or trouser leg) and drag/pull me away from him. Similarly if I was play fighting with my father (who was most definitely leader of the pack) she would do the same thing to him. It was quite a different behaviour to if she joined in play (she always seperated us if we were 'fighting'.) Before we got her she spent a lot of time at a primary school (jumped the 6ft back fence at her place to spend time with the kids - owners didn't have enough time, my Dad was the school care taker - that's how we acquired her) where she was very protective of the kids particularly the younger smaller children. On a few occasions she actually herded (with a little growling) some bullies into a corner during recess and wouldn't let them go! They'd been teasing some smaller children who'd been noticeably upset (knocking icy poles out of their hands, standing over them etc.) So in answer to the question Is it possible for a dog with no aggression and who is definitely low down in the pack to exhibit natural protection behaviours? I would have to say (based on anecdotal evidence and personal exp, lol) that yes it is definitely possible.

Thanks! Thanks Dogdude that's great just what I need

I hoping to start trialling with my Belgian (she's 13months.) Someone told me that there was a great website listing almost all trial dates in Vic (as not all were advertised in Dogs Vic Mag) but of course I can't for the life of me remember the address and haven't seen the kind person who told me again Any help would be much appreciated. Also any hints and tips for a first time trialler would be appreciated... My dog and I will be attempting CCD and over summer will be working on getting (close to at least) absolute precision before entering. We'll also be going back to our obedience club (Rotti Obedience Club) after a long absence (dog was still trained during this time at home and at private classes.) Will also be checking out some more trials without the dog too before we enter :cool: I'm just very nervous bout the whole thing! (and of course excited!)

Belgian Shepherd... my Groenendal (hopefully we'll start next year) or a BC (cos I've always loved theair grace, athlecticism and drive) or a working line Belgian Mally for reasons already mentioned!

EDIT accidental post :rolleyes: Apologies if anyone knows hopw to delete a post could they explain to me please so I can remove this? Thanks

We were fortunate enough to be able to take time off with our pup but even a short time if you are able to help the pup settle and as others have said leave it for short periods to help it get used to your absence. our pup arrived with her own plush teddy bear toy (the breeder brought it from teh op shop.) She still snuggles up with it now at 8 months old. Tis a poor replacement for litter mates but we think it helped ease the transition a little. Of course some pups will simply have great fun ripping the toy apart and chasing the mess around the house... we were also advised to remove eyes or other smalls things our puppy may chew and swallow.

We had the same problem with our belgian pup... total water baby. When she finished paddling she then would tip the bowl over and play in the puddles. Nothing we seemed to do helped until... we brought a kids paddling pool when she was about 13 weeks (bigger enough to get in and out easily by herself.) We only have a little water in it but she loved it... to begin with she did still play in the water bowl and drink from the pool... lol but now she's got the idea!

We had always thought our pup would sleep outside but our breeder (we have a belgian) suggested she sleep inside for the first 2 weeks mainly to help with bonding and familarising the pup with us. Conversely our vet told us she'd be fine outside as it was summer. (But had said if winter sleep inside for a little while.) We ended up having her sleep inside for the first 3 weeks but we'd feed her outside in her kennel and play games involving goping into the kennel. When we did move her outside she was fine. Also have heard that crate training is great (must get onto that for our dog!)

This is what we did with our BSD puppy at about 9 -11 weeks to get her used to the lead: If she sat she got a treat so we'd show her the treat, she'd sit, we'd clip the lead on, she got treat, then we'd take the lead off and go again, all very quick and fun minimising lead chew time! Gradually we built up time with the lead on, leaving it on when she was tired so she got used to it but was less inclined to chew it, of course we watched her all the time to make sure she didn't get herself tangled up. We also found distracting her with her favourite toys a great way to get her 'leash happy'. Basically she got a treat when the leash went on then we waggled her fav toy (or yummy treat) under her nose which was infinetly more interesting than than the lead (which we tried to hold out of the way so she couldn't chew it.) This was made even easier if OH held the lead so it was at the back of her neck and I waggled the toy in front. Building prey drive and leash manners together... or at least tha was the theory. We worked on this a little each day and she was noticibly better within a few weeks. Hope this helps :rolleyes:

Thanks all for the advice. I'm checking out the Vic Rotti Club training tonight (Will edit this post after I've been. )

Rotti Club sounds great Do you have to know someone to join if you aren't a Rotti Owner? Also I've heard positive things about Hastings too... Any feedback on them would be most welcome THank you to all of you who have contributed to this thread it's proved very useful for me!

THanks for the feedback, I too was impressed with the Website... alanglen, You mentioned that the 'good' clubs down that way trial on Saturdays... what are these good clubs?

I'm looking for an Obedience club in the South Eastern Suburbs that does trialling and agility. I've heard that Western Port is a good club... (good as in a range of levels and activities and supportive and friendly.) However, I would welcome feedback from people who've had experience there (good or bad.) I plan on visiting the club soon but am doing a little research before that! I have a 7 month old Belgian Shepherd who has had training (or rather I have had training to teach her thanks to Underdog Training!) She's very quick and inquisitive as well as possessing a lot of attitude. Ultimately I would like to try competive obedience and agility with her. (I'm new to both.) I'd appreciate any feed back on Western Port or other clubs in the South Eastern Suburbs Thanks EDITED to include Hastings in topic title