tyra2007

It is the same with dogs that vomit up certain varieties of processed food, if they did that you would change brands right! If a dog had issues with raw food you feed it, it is the same as allergies in humans and an elimination diet would be the best avenue to isolate which part of the diet wasn't suited to the dog. So you start simple and bring in different elements one at a time so that you know what is best for your dog. By taking an easy way out and simply feeding processed I cannot see that being good at all. Would you feed a child that didn't like vegetables McDonalds for every meal? I don't think many would say yes to that one.

I believe what a reseller has to say about processed dog foods about as much as I believe a Vet who sells the products - if they sell it, then it is in their best interest to promote it blindly to create profits for their business. What about the fact that it is super heat treated? And the fact that ALL meat meal is obtained in a rendering process which destroys the goodness, adding in nutrients at another stage does not make that product better to feed than the real thing. Yes people are going to get emotional about the way they feed their animals and yes feeding a well balanced BARF based diet requires a little more effort that just opening a packet and believing the hype. IMO the reason so many feed processed pet food is simply laziness. Which is why so many retaillers out there (including most vets) are easily able to con the consumer into buying overpriced, over processed rubbish food. I guess these people are also happy to eat rubbish human food too so it makes sense that they want to continue the laziness and feed their dogs crap. So does this make it good/better?? NOT just plain bone lazy! No, I am not so blind as to believe "everything" I read on the internet - (I have studied the raw feeding thoroughly for over a decade and read thousands of pages on the internet to get the information I need. As well as books and speaking to others who have converted to BARF) The difference is I do not believe the "hype" from dog food producers websites as it is in their best interest to tell you the good not the bad. Don't bother answering again PSA (No loss there) all you do is blindly quote the website verbatim - a monkey could find that information to post.

And then there is the poultry side of meat meal! From http://www.homevet.com/petcare/foodbook.html Quote- What about other sources of protein that can be used in pet food? Poultry-by-product meal consists of ground, rendered, clean parts of the carcasses of slaughtered poultry, such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs, and intestines, exclusive of feathers, except in such amounts as might occur unavoidably in good processing practice. Poultry-hatchery by-products are a mixture of egg shells, infertile and unhatched eggs and culled chicks that have been cooked, dried and ground, with or without removal of part of the fat. Poultry by-products include non rendered clean parts of carcasses of slaughtered poultry such as heads, feet, and viscera, free of fecal content and foreign matter except in such trace amounts as might occur unavoidably in good factory practice. These are all definitions as listed in the AAFCO "Ingredient Definitions." Hydrolyzed poultry feather is another source of protein - not digestible protein, but protein nonetheless. This product results from the treatment under pressure of clean, intact feathers from slaughtered poultry free of additives, and/or accelerators. -Unquote MMMMmmmm yummy & that HAS to be better than buying lovely fresh human grade chicken frames and feeding it to my dogs What was I thinking! Tomorrow instead of a yummy Sunday Roast for myself and my family - I think I might go get some ground up whole baby chicks, feathers and all, surely the feathers add flavour & nutrition

It is 100% true, and part of the reason I would not argue the point to those that 'think' fresh meat is better. What they are really feeding there pet is mostly moisture, a large part of that being H20. I have spent years dealing with aquaculture foods and the very best ingredient you can use for really adding protein is fish meal, it is a scientifically proven fact. The commercial foods used for growing aqua-cultured Salmon and Trout, have extremely high levels of protein, this can only be provided by using fish and crustacea meal. The same is on offer for aquatic hobbyists who want high quality foods, although other ingredients such as the skin of shrimp and some fish are added to increase Omega fats and protein levels. To put it in simple terms, you are dealing with a concentrate. I could bore you with pages of data, but google will help you make your own mind up. There is a place for Kibble, as there is for fresh foods, it really comes down to personal preference and what your pet likes or is happy with. Personally I think a combination of kibble and fresh foods is the best option for feeding of my own pets, but as per above, personal preference is the key to this I don't "think" that raw has more protein that processed I KNOW it is! What I am actually feeding my dogs is 100% human quality meat sold to me by a butcher! are you really saying that as a human all I am actually eating when I buy and eat a steak is just water? Do you really think that people are stupid enough to believe your rubbish attempt at brainwashing to feed processed pet poison? Thanks very much PSA for the usual patronising "I sell processed Pet Poison for Profit - therefore it must be good Guff!" Meat Meal is rubbish food - you may as well feed your dog cardboard! It would be very interesting to hear your reply to the following points:- (from various websites) If you Google "meat meal" there is nothing good to be said about it at all! From website #1 - Meat meals, poultry meals, by-product meals, and meat-and-bone meal are common ingredients in dry pet foods. The term “meal” means that these materials are not used fresh, but have been rendered. While there are chicken, turkey, and poultry by-product meals there is no equivalent term for mammal “meat by-product meal” — it is called “meat-and-bone-meal.” It may also be referred to by species, such as “beef-and-bone-meal” or “pork-and-bone-meal.” What is rendering? As defined by Webster’s Dictionary, to render is “to process as for industrial use: to render livestock carcasses and to extract oil from fat, blubber, etc., by melting.” In other words, raw materials are dumped into large vat and boiled for several hours. Rendering separates fat, removes water, and kills bacteria, viruses, parasites, and other organisms. However, the high temperatures used (270°F/130°C) can alter or destroy natural enzymes and proteins found in the raw ingredients. Website #2 If a pet food lists "meat by-products" on the label, remember that this is the material that usually comes from the slaughterhouse industry or dead stock removal operations, classified as condemned or contaminated, unfit for human consumption. Meat meal, meat and bone meal, digests, and tankage (specifically animal tissue including bones and exclusive of hair, hoofs, horns, and contents of digestive tract) are composed of rendered material. The label need not state what the composition of this material is, as each batch rendered would consist of a different material. These are the sources of protein that we are feeding our companion animals. So how is any of this "better" to feed a dog?? Really interested to see what you have to say PSA - have you ever actually researched these products? As for not being irradiated - ALL imported dog foods that come through Australia's Quarantine MUST be irradiated - there is no way it can be exempted!

Is this product made in Australia (website doesn't mention that anywhere) if not, what about the irradiation of the product on entry? I am a BARF feeder and could never imagine feeding my dog a processed dry food, even one that describes itself as being "holistic" Quote from PSA- Skin complaints, UTI's, Joint issues etc etc are ailments this food is meant to be very helpful with, plus loaded with High quality, All natural Holistic ingredients -end quote I have had sucess in helping all the above from simply feeding a well balanced BARF diet, at least I know what is in my BARF diet IMO a well planned BARF diet is easier than feeding processed pet poison.

Touched by this. Jane be strong - you are so many of our thoughts and hearts

Common is some breeds, yes but shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh or those who must not be named may stick their hippy noses in and try and stop this as well!

Oh my goodness The poems everyone has posted are just beautiful & have brought me to tears. Even though the last one I lost was many years ago recently a dear friend lost her old boy & I was drawn to these poems. I have another one to add to the mix - not so much about departure - more about how special they are to everyone. I have read it a million times and still can't get though it without moist eyes. CREATION VERSE When God had made the earth and sky, The flowers and the trees, He then made all the animals And all the birds and bees, And when his work was finished Not one was quite the same.. He said:”I’ll walk this earth of mine And give each one a name.” And so He travelled land and sea And everywhere He went A little creature followed Him Until it’s strength was spent. When all were named upon the earth And in the sky and sea, The little creature said,” Dear Lord There’s not one left for me.” The Father smiled and softly said “I’ve left you to the end. I’ve turned my own name back to front And called you DOG, my friend.”

Thanks to you Toohey for keeping us updated - all we can continue to do is send healing vibes of love to Jane & hope that she continues her recovery. To all the DOLr's in the waiting room and those who pop in to check on Jane's progress I wanted to post a little poem that I have always loved (even though I don't consider myself religious and I have read it a hundred times it makes me smile and weep) It is a simple ode to our pals - which is why we are all here in one shape or another. I hope you like it. CREATION VERSE When God had made the earth and sky, The flowers and the trees, He then made all the animals And all the birds and bees, And when his work was finished Not one was quite the same.. He said “I’ll walk this earth of mine And give each one a name.” And so He travelled land and sea And everywhere He went A little creature followed Him Until it’s strength was spent. When all were named upon the earth And in the sky and sea, The little creature said, “Dear Lord There’s not one left for me.” The Father smiled and softly said “I’ve left you to the end. I’ve turned my own name back to front And called you DOG, my friend.” My thoughts are still full of hope for Jane - candle re lit today

Found this poem about about our furry best friends ;) I am not religious but I adore this & wanted to share it with you at this sad time ;) When God had made the earth and sky, The flowers and the trees, He then made all the animals And all the birds and bees, And when his work was finished Not one was quite the same.. He said:”I’ll walk this earth of mine And give each one a name.” And so He travelled land and sea And everywhere He went A little creature followed Him Until it’s strength was spent. When all were named upon the earth And in the sky and sea, The little creature said, ” Dear Lord, there’s not one left for me.” The Father smiled and softly said “I’ve left you to the end. I’ve turned my own name back to front And called you DOG, my friend.” RIP Sexy Rexy - you were beyond special watch over your mum as thanks for such a good life

;) I am so sorry for your loss Monika Rex was an amazing example of the breed and more importantly your best friend. I know his time on earth was truly a happy one! I loved him so much and we will miss Sexy Rexy. Why can't they be like parrots and live till they're 80+ it is never long enough! RIP Sexy Rexy - run free and watch over your mum & the naughty girls!

Have re-lit my candle and sending all my hopes and prayer for Jane to get through all this. Just had a mad baking frenzy and realised I made way too much (if that is possible LOL) So I shall pop a whole heap of hot macadamia white chocolate cookies and Rocky Road brownies on the table for all those in the waiting room to nibble on. It is so lovely to see all of you and the furbabies in the room - I really really want a Newfie rug at home - it would finish the room of beautifully & shag is all the rage at the moment design wise Take care lovely people If only we could all take a small percentage of Jane's pain and suffering away - so that her burden was not such a heavy load

Jane please know how many people are here for you and the love we send is endless. The path to recovery is a long one, take baby steps dear lady. The waiting room is full of people who love you and furries who want to lick you.

Corn is fine - just not on the cob Here is a handy list of the what no to feed dogs or foods that can be dangerous. http://www.petalia.com.au/templates/storyt...fm?story_no=257 I keep it in my favourite in a dog info folder. Quick reference guide for whenever I am not sure :D

I got an automatic response as an acknowledgement which implies responses to questions will be provided on the website (under FAQ's) but I can't imagine they will do that ... I don't mean to be a nit picker... So, sorry in advance. When you send a letter like this to anyone it is always good to really proof read it. In your points 4 & 5 you start with "where" when I think what you really wanted to say was "were" this is something that spell checker will not pick up. It can cause a letter or a point to become confusing to the reader. Just thought I would make that little point - apart from that it is a good letter and I would be very interested in hearing their response. Cheers

Sorry but I have to correct you tramissa, you are not correct in your statement. The minced chicken frames are "human grade" as it is the carcasses from the whole animal that is graded fit for humans. Yes it contains bones and I wouldn't recommend humans to eat it but it is "human grade"! The bones you get from a butcher are human grade so there is no difference when it is chicken! The prep and storage for meat and chicken is no different. They are not allowed to treat the carcasses any differently from all the other meat in store. 1 - because cross contamination means that they can't just leave frames sitting there without the same care & refrigeration. 2 - These are the same frames that people buy to make soup! It is just that they mince a batch when they get to many built up. Lenards are one of the few chicken shops that actually buy whole chickens and strip it down to get all the breasts wings legs etc.

I use it regularly as part of my BARF diet mix. Love it & it is a good price at $1.50kg (sydney price) Cheaper to buy than processed pet poison & it is human grade = so all good

Thank you Toohey for taking the time to keep us all updated - I has been very much appreciated. This last message has been very welcomed news and it is so good to hear that Jane is well on the way to recovery. I hope that in time Jane is able to read this amazing forum and feel the love that we have all been sending her. In time I am sure that she will try and give us her own updates and hopefully we can support her through her grief which will be immense. I am just so glad that Chi Chi and the other survivors will also be able to help her get through the grief and rebuild her empire both brick n mortar and fur n feather. To Jane & her family - please let us know if there are things that are needed, either to send or to help finance from this group - we are all here for anything you need.

Ok I am no expert on "AmStaff's" but isn't that just another name for Pit Bulls??

Improvement is a great word to hear regarding Jane's recovery You gals in the waiting room might appreciate some smuggled in wine to toast to Jane ;) White / Red or Bubbly ? With all this love in the room it certainly will be guiding Jane's recovery. So many candles burning for this lovely brave lady - we won't need lights in the waiting room. God's speed Jane - keep on taking baby steps - there are a lot of healthy wet noses waiting to greet you. Much love to all those taking care of Jane and her babies :D & to all those here in this forum

I found that strong flavoured vegetables can be a bit offputting. I use grated carrot, grated zucchini and grated apple or you can pulp them in a food processor or juicer. The apple helps add the sweet taste that they seem to like. I would avoid brocolli/cauliflower and bok choy as they are fairly bitter veges when raw. Have you thought about adding some soaked Vets All Natural mix to the mix? http://www.vetsallnatural.com.au/PDFS/CMIX.pdf It is a Complete mix contains a combination of mixed cereal grains (rolled oats, cracked barley, soybean meal, flax seed meal, and whole oats), dried vegetables and fruit, dried garlic, dried parsley, dried barley grass, calcium powder, yeast powder, kelp granules, lecithin granules and vitamin C powder.of garlic whole grain which doesnt get digested and basically cleans the bowel and passes through their system. It is also good to add some Omega 3 Oils to the mix - http://www.greenpet.com.au/pet-shop/cart.p...;category_id=76 I find this is essential to help balance the BARF diet properly. If you need any help with your mix and ratios let me know - I am happy to share my diet with anyone.

Ha! As if they wouldn't sell out - that is where the money comes from & like the old saying goes - money talks and bulls**t walks this is just walking talking bulls**t 'scuse me but this stuff really gets under my skin

Quoted from the webpage - Delta Society would like to thank our partner - the passionate pet lovers at Purina - for their incredible support! end quote Oh My God - what a lot of hog wash!! - I laughed so hard I nearly pee'd I am a barf nazi and will always be - unless they hypnotise me and brainwash me to feed my dog "processed dog poison" Phooey to Delta Society

Ahhh yes the life of the rich and famous Quoted from a website: OCALA, Central Florida 23-Nov-2004 [JP]: What do you do when your neighbours won't let you park your Boeing 707 outside your home? You move to another “housing development” - one that lets you have close-parking privileges, complete with a 1.4-mile airstrip! Following a lifelong love of aviation, 70's TV phenom actor John Travolta now lives in Jumbolair, just north of Ocala, Florida. Shown are two of Travolta's jets - a Gulfstream and a Boeing 707B - there aren't very many non-commercial airstrips where planes of that size can take off and land. About a decade ago, Travolta had a home in a fly-in community near Daytona, but was sued by neighbours who claimed his jet airplanes were too big and noisy for their facility. The very layout of his new house is testament to Travolta's love of flying. It's located immediately off the main airstrip, and is designed so his jets can taxi right up to two outbuildings connected to the main structure, which is shaped like a squat air-control tower. Travolta literally can walk out his door, under a canopied walkway and into the cockpit, open the long mechanized gate and be airborne in a matter of minutes. According to the Federal Aviation Administration pilot database, Travolta is qualified in several types of single and multi-engine aircraft, and has the highest pilot medical certification possible. “We know that Travolta's an accomplished pilot. A lot of people fly for the pleasure of it, and he's one of them,” said John Clabes, an FAA spokesman. “If you have this many ratings on these types of high-performance aircraft, you're obviously a good pilot.” In layman's terms, Travolta has enough experience flying large multi-engine jets that he could easily switch to piloting commercial airliners for a living - but why bother when you can make a hobby of it? 49-year old Travolta flies daily from Ocala to Tampa to shoot “The Punisher,” an action movie based on the comic book, set to be released next summer... Tough life, but someone has to do it, eh? End Quote..... Unfortunately the poor dogs were at another airport and not at home when this accident occured

I think some are forgetting that the plane would have been Travolta's personal Boeing 707 which he can park in his own Boeing driveway at his home, his home backs onto a full size runway - don't forget he isn't short of a buck. Therefore the animals would be VIP passengers and not require crating. As for how they would both get run down on an airfield - well that is bizarre - perhaps the hired help weren't paid nearly enough. Sad for the dogs.