KitKat

That's what i often used when feeding barf - if you can get the vegies uber mulched then once they are done freeze the mix as that will break down the..err can't think of hte word...lol, but it will make it easier for the dog to digest if you don't get it mulched down enough. Just be careful if you use one of those with raw pumpkin as you might blow the motor...

My bias? my bias to feed what suits that particular dog? The only times i have offered up RC alone is for such as when people have said they have fed this that and the other and aren't sure what to try next...so i offer up RC and because i know the different types often offer up exactly which type to look at...eg Maxi, Giant, Boxer, Lab, GSD etc etc. However when i have responded to posts regarding quality kibble i offer up all the readily available brands (at least those in Bris anyway) eg, RC, Proplan, Euk, Advance, Nutrience, EP and Hills - Hell...i personally don't even like Hills yet i add that to the list for fairness! And most of the time i have pushed kibble is to balance out your 'feed barf else you are doing wrong by your dog' pose - which you have lessened of late. I had begun to think 'good post' when i read yours...until now. Oh...and please note - I don't sell food, the shop sells food...i just float around with one of my dogs or my cat, who i feed the stuff to, at which ever store i'm asked to go to, and chat to people and help them to decide which brand of food they want to go with, and which particular type. I'm not a pushy type person to say "buy this, don't use the others as they are crap etc etc". I've often helped people with the other brands and sent them off to the register with a bag of Proplan, or Advance or whatever. And a number of people i've sent away with instructions to google Barf. So...get your facts straight before you start saying that i should all barr be adding to each of my posts "I occasionally work for RC - and here is my perhaps biased opinion...blah blah blah" ETA - LM...i think i encouraged the person to look at ProPlan, their sensitive one which is based on Salmon...i stated what my dogs were on...but encouraged the OP to check out Proplan...so how does that make me biased to RC? Wait...will RC have to fire me because i offered up a different brand??!!

Don't expect an unbiased response to this post: KK sells a "leading brand" of kibble with the initials RC. LM - Where the hell do you get off calling my integrity into question and making out that my opinion is bought and paid for by Royal Canin? This is not the first time you have made this intimation and i am far from impressed. Tho it doesn't add much to your argument if all you can come up with is that i work for RC 4 hours a fortnight and so MUST be biased! Oh Please! I've probably recommended ProPlan more then RC on DOL - I only recommend foods that i have seen have good results from - Be that RC, Proplan, Euk, Advance, Barf etc etc...i have even recommended Supercoat, Optimum, and Pedigree Performance depending on the occasion (eg, $$ = what they buy - as in if the dog does well...then great...and the kibbles are better then Pal). Oh and LM I considered Royal Canin a great dog food before i started working a few hours with them instead of the, so far, two other companies that have offered me like work. I could give you good and bad reports on all food, Barf, EP and RC included...but i can't be bothered as it still comes under what i believe eg that "The best food for your dog is the food they do best on, packaged or unpackaged!" Zorro - I checked the RC bag i have and it does indeed contain the anti-oxident BHA but it doesn't include the other two. I've taken note of the three things you have listed and it will be interesting to see if other companies list one of more of those. I do know that several of the super premium foods use by-products which was a surprise. And yes, my GSD does better on a mix of Raw and Dry - on Raw/Barf alone his coat went ratty and dry and horrible, he lost weight (huge amounts of raw did not keep any weight on - any more weight lost and i'd have been reported to the RSPCA i'm sure - perhaps a slight exaguration (sp) but you get my drift) his nose went all dry and crusty and he just wasn't looking as good as he could have. Within weeks of being on Dry with Raw on the side he was looking great, keeping weight on (tho that was a bit of a battle to start with) his fur was looking and feeling decent again etc etc. All in all it's not a choice i would make again for him as it didn't suit him. However i know other dogs on Barf who look fantastic and all i can say is 'fantastic for them' - but it doesn't suit my mob.

Hell...there are a few people that tell me i'm spoiling my dogs because they get Royal Canin with a side of raw... I've been told that all i need to feed is Pal...after all it's what breeders and showies use...(according to advertising etc)

Hehehe well there you go :D Learn something new every day But that makes sense why i haven't seen it up here....I'm very rarely out Ipswich way

All i am saying is that i don't get offered first quality produce so why would i expect first quality in my dogs kibble? And all and all...my dogs probably do eat better then me, and my cats for that matter And :p to Magnum's post. Rom - to add to the difficulties some companies weight their meat before it's dehydrated and so list it first in the ingredients list. Other companies weight their meat after it's dehydrated so sometimes it doesn't get listed first as obviously it's dry weight is less then it's wet weight.

Excellent...mind you i've not seen Nutro in Brissie yet...hence why i hadn't listed it as i've not read the details on the bags etc etc It's always good to know the kibbles that don't use by-products :p

Does Nutro do a 'light' formula? (I haven't seen Nutro sold in Brissie so don't know it's range)

Aahhh but i could say the same of the food we buy fresh from the super market... The cuts of meat we have access to...A/first grade? Do you believe that $24.99 per kg steak is A/first grade? Do you believe that pack of chicken pieces is A/first grade? Those vegies that look so nice...think those are A/first grade? The lovely pieces of fruit...think those are A/first grade? The Aussie grown grains in our cereal...think those are A/first grade? The vitamins in those cereals, bottles, boxes...A/first grade? Kinda depends doesn't it?

Hehehe ever so often i consider getting that translated to latin and tattoo'd to my butt...then all i have to do is :p ;) :eek:

Eeerr...ok...don't hold back now Zorro 007. I tried Barf on my GSD...i would have liked to have kept him on it...but he was losing condition badly and nothing i did made any difference (even adding oils, huuuuge amounts of barf food {no actually $$ savings due to the purely huge amount i was having to feed}, anything i could find to combat the condition loss)...until i put him onto RC with raw/barf on the side...his condition came back, he no longer looked starved, his coat was no longer dry, brittle and crappy...But sure...i could again put in the little effort of Barfing...and have my dog lose condition due to MY choice :p THE BEST FOOD FOR YOUR DOG IS THE FOOD THE DOG DOES BEST ON...PACKAGED OR UNPACKAGED!!!

Oh...just in case the weird thread thing smooches this post with the with my previous one............................................. Proplan make a kibble based on salmon for sentitive tummies and skin...a few people i know have their dogs on it and have been very happy with the results...

Perhaps consider Royal Canin Labrador kibble? it's low GI, huge sized kibble, extra glucosimine (sp?) etc etc...might be worth a shot. But perhaps cut back on the Barf at night - eg subsitute a carrot or grated carrot for a chook wing, and just be careful about what you feed meaty bone wise due to such having a high fat content (eg, lamb, chicken pieces {not incl frames as much} pork with skin attached etc etc) Bonus being RC doesn't use by-products...lmao

Gotta say...if your not enjoying it...go somewhere else! My pup and i have had a great time at puppy classes...he now sits when told, drops most of the time when told, stands, stays (to a point), recalls, goes to 'bed' (start of the send-a-way), is getting better at walking at heel, is leaning that it's more polite to sit and offer to shake hands then jump all over someone. However he is a little brat...so no matter what he learns he still 'tries it on' as such...cheeky brat that he is...but we are getting there :p

Aaahhh but due to peoples fiddling with breeds we have created dogs with allergies and sensitivities to red meat, chicken, rich meats like lamb and roo, certain vegies...same kind of issues people are finding in themselves...lol. But in general...not all dogs do better on Barf...Bronx certainly didn't (is on kibble with raw on the side) and i know several other people on DOL who have dogs that do better on a kibble or kibble/raw diet. Barf is a great diet...if it it suits the dog and the owner. I find the super premium kibble with raw on the side suits me...and more to the point suits Bronx as he's looking darn handsome on the current diet :p And Sabre the pup is growing very nicely as well...lol

Which state are you in Sags? So far i've just been going by what i see and reports from stockists...The slowest seller of the 'normal range' is nutrience...and up here EP sells less then they do...mostly i think because it's just not that well known...they have no reps or promotors up here. I know because the Sydney (i think?) rep offered me a job last time i saw them...lol

Fair enough They don't generally stock it in Brissie that i know of and as it is there are only two places i know who stock EP on their shelves rather then having to order it for people. Most places i know won't stock EP due to that it doesn't move very fast and often comes to the end of the useby date before it gets sold.

I did say "readily available" which Dick van Patten's Natural Balance Organic Formula isn't...or at least isn't where i am.

What BL said

Out of the readily available top of the range kibbles....RC, Proplan and Nutrience are the only ones that don't use By-Products. Not sure if that will help you with your decision. I'm pretty sure EP doesn't use By-Products but i haven't read the back of a bag recently...lol - but EP isn't exactly readily available in my area either.

If you do use it....don't use to much of it...as it could upset your pups tummy. A good bite sized bait is VIP chunkers you can get them in a bag from their local supermarket. There are a couple of different flavours and most dogs like them :rolleyes: they make good bait as well as they smell, are smallish and the dog doesn't have to stop and chew for a while...lol.

I have my GSD's (18mth old and 3mth old) on Royal Canin...it works out a lot cheaper if you buy the 15kg or so bag. Mine lasts a lot longer then the recommended because i also feed raw on the side. So with their kibble they might chicken necks, mince, meat pieces, lamb/pork/beef/turkey bones/pieces etc, or might get meaty bones as a full meal every so often. Unfortunately my 18mth old dog doesn't do well on a full raw/barf diet so it's more a side serve these days.

It can happen in any breed...every so often a pup will grow noticibly bigger then both parents - which can be upsetting to those crossing their fingers that the stunner of a pup will remain within the standard height range It's just one of those things that can happen.

I'm still stuck on how she managed to have 'several' litters before you got her at 12months old... Anyway - cut down her food by a bit and see how she goes, feel free to bulk up her dinner with grated carrot - it will leave her feeling full without adding any weight to her. What are you currently feeding her?

Lillysmum, i think you'll fild the pup is only 5 months old...tooooo young as far as i'm concerned to be taking a brisk 20min walk each day. Some fetch play etc might be a better option... To me the pup sounds like he's trying to work his mum around his paw... As to the toilet training - I'd look as the possibility of putting paper over the entire lino area where he is when you are at work. Slowly start shrinking the newspapered area. But when you are at home take him outside to toilet if you can, put him on a lead and give him a toilet 'word' and encourage him to go at that. I did this with my GSD pup (mind you he was quick to train) but he wasn't confused by the use of the paper and going outside with a word etc. Andromeda - Sorry I can't be much help...but little dogs are harder to work with then bigger dogs i swear! :D