WalandLibby

I cue the dog into position (sit or drop), and give them a handful of treats, one at a time. At first I don't give a verbal cue, not at least until we've done it a few times to be sure that they understand that all the rewards available are from my hand if we're doing sit, and from the ground between their front legs if in a drop. Often I delay adding the verbal cue till much later. How I respond if they move depends on why I think they move - if it's because they've lost interest in the rewards or some other reward in the environment is more appealing at that moment then I give up on that go and try again later when things are different (and I've got better treats). If they move because they just don't know that staying still is what I'm rewarding then at first I might use my handful of treats to lure them back into position or if we've already done that a few times, I'll just wait to see if they can work out to go back to the position. If they can't after a few seconds, no drama, I help them out by luring. Once they seem to be getting the idea that holding position is what is getting them rewarded I start to increase the duration between the treats. This really helps them understand, as they will discover that getting up won't get them the treat. Soon you will be able to cue them to get up between treats - this is when it really starts to 'look' like stay. This is usually about where I add the verbal 'stay' cue, although it doesn't matter too much where you do, as long as it isn't too early (as long as they are likely to hold the position after you say it). It is the case for most things that you teach, that if you try to teach multiple aspects of the behaviour at the same time the dog will struggle to understand what you're on about. For stay the main aspects are usually considered to be the 3Ds - duration, distance, distraction. You should teach duration first (building it quite slowly and carefully, and not continuously building it - if you did that the dog might get fed up and will know that it will be a looong time til it will be rewarded), then reduce the duration and start on the distance you move away (again, build it gradually), then put duration and distance together, then add distraction. I don't think it's a great thing to try to develop too much of a stay for young dogs, I'd keep it short and close for a 6mth old. Frustration behaviours were quite a challenge for me when teaching my Foxie to stay. Do you anticipate that with your pup?

I'm KoolieMum, but if you search Wal Koolie I think you'll find all 3 of the vids I've got up atm. You've motivated me, I'll try to video the taking off my jacket trick and put it up this week.

http://monicasegal.com/ Monica does consults via email. I think there's a pretty long waiting list, but she's good. Her books and pamphlets are good too, although it's not an easy task to work out a diet yourself at the level of detail and care that she will do for you. But they do at least provide good info about the principles of balancing a diet.

Perhaps other states different rules re trialling of non-ANKC dogs are significant - maybe ppl in other with such dogs in other states don't need a different organisation as much?

There are a few on our Youtube page - shutting doors, taking socks off, putting things in things (see my sig). He can do others that I haven't got around to videoing yet - our faves are 'kiss' and him unzipping my jacket, and pulling the sleeves to help me take it off. I originally heard of the behaviour as an assistance dog task, but Wal is far too intense when he does it to be much help to someone who wasn't pretty active. He'd probably injure rather than help them lol. We're working on untying shoe laces, roll over, flat on his side, crawl. And I'm thinking about body targeting too. I've tried that in the past and not had much success but now I think I know how to do it.But I also continue to reward the thing's we've been doing for years - come when called, handling, sit, drop etc.

If you want to use clicker type training for grooming the approach is usually to break down the behaviour so that you are verbally marking and rewarding for parts of it then when that is working well, combining the bits. At first you don't attempt to do a full groom. So you might for eg gently support the dog in a stand, quickly brush her side, mark the behaviour while you do it, then stop and reward. When she's over it, stop. Marking and rewarding for accepting handling (the gentle restraint I've described above) tends to create an animal that is fairly passive during grooming and waits to be prompted before moving during the grooming (which is usually a good thing).

One of the most important concepts I think for a trainer to keep in mind is that learning (dogs', ours', everybody's) is in a constant state of flux. If a particular learned behaviour's reinforcement history isn't strong (as in many reinforcements, or very good reinforcements) and recent, then there's a pretty good chance that it won't happen when it is asked for. So the training is never finished - it's always a work in progress. Which I think is lovely - it makes me very happy that my old and not very well dog continues to delight me with his ability and love of learning.

If you're going to be using clicker type training with him, then training grooming and other cooperative/husbandry behaviours can be a great joy and very satisfying. It always make me feel like a super-duper exotic animal trainer ;-).

Good sources of info recommended. One thing I find that really helps with your timing is to be really clear in your own mind before you start about what it is that you are going to reinforce and how you will know that it has occurred (so there is no time wasted while you decide whether to mark or not). So with stand for eg you might do what you are going to to get the movement into the position (I would usually use a nose-to-hand target) and be ready watching the back end come up (you'll need to be positioned at 90 deg to your dog to see this) and as soon as you see the back go level, mark. If you don't have some particular spot on their body that you are watching to tell you when to mark, then each time you mark you will probably be marking something different, and the dog's understanding will be vague at best. Kay Laurence (who has a great set of books if you want to follow a really structured course of learning in ct) talks about how, considering that a dog can move into almost any position by various means, each of those can be considered a different behaviour and could be given different cues (she teaches 3-4 different sits for eg). The flip side of that of course is that if we teach all these ways of moving into the position as 'sit' then the dog will learn slower and be less clear about what we're asking for. Also on adding hold to positions, and assuming the dog is 'attached' by the nose to a target, letting the dog go through a bit of wriggling, then settle, then marking when they are still is fine and quite communicative. You'll usually find that they become still at a shorter interval fairly quickly, and that the concept generalises quite well.

What a difficult time you and your pup have been having (continue to have). About the HOD, if as the info posted by settrlvr suggests, it seems to be inherited as an autosomal recessive (the dog must receive the relevant gene/s from both parents in order to develop the condition) and the faulty gene is widely distributed throughout the breed, then it's likely that until your pup's diagnosis your breeder had no way of knowing that her parents carried it. And to my mind, producing a pup with this condition under these circumstances is not something that they can really be held responsible for, in that there really wasn't anything they could do to prevent it. If they knew of other relatives with the condition (or ought to have known) or continue to breed from either of her parents or her siblings, that's another story.

Oops - it's actually published by Clean Run, and was obviously having a massive mental blip (in a rush) when I answered this morning - I got my copy from AgilityClick. For me this book was one of those 'lightbulb' books - I think McDevvitt is very good at taking theory and making it easy to use. I hope you'll like it too, Monah.

Sorry for not replying sooner Monah - I've been offline for a week. If you still need, it, I'm pretty sure (it's not in front of me at this second, so I hope I'm right) that Control Unleashed is published by Dogwise, but you can certainly buy it from them, and I think from Amazon also.

Trainers certainly used to think so, but now most think it is a really powerful reward. Dogs do not usually seem to be competing when they play this game - when 2 dogs are playing tug, if one loses it's grip, the one that still has the toy usually tries to start the game up again, rather than claiming possession in a way that would be consistent with competition being the motivation for the game. However over-excitement can be an issue, so the rules for the game should be clear (basically that getting too excited or making tooth contact with human skin ends the game, which you can do simply by walking away, leaving her with the toy). You should start by tugging very gently so she doesn't get over-excited. It is something I wouldn't recommend that a child play with a dog because they have more difficulty keeping to those rules, but for you to do it shouldn't have any effect on Noodle's relationship with your children. There is no need for you to 'win' or to take the toy at the end of the game (although taking it away after she's lost interest in it may increase it's value for her when you later bring it out to play with).

Leslie McDevvitt's book Control Unleashed has some great ideas for reactive dogs - especially the 'Look at that!' exercise where you teach the dog to look at the things that concern it (from a distance so that it stays calm and happy) for rewards - it's a pretty smart way to do counter-conditioning imo. This is a good way to intro a dog to another - let them look at each other from a distance and use the feedback from the dog with the issues (judging from their body language, calmness and ability to respond to your cues) to judge what is ok, and when they've had enough. It's better to go slowly and carefully. Generally it is better to avoid correcting for inappropriate behaviour towards other dogs (although I've been there with my own dogs and know how counter-intuitive that seems). Correcting tends to make the behaviour worse, as it confirms their suspicion that other dogs aren't safe to be around (so I don't think being strict with her would be helpful, I think it might make things worse.) I think it was Sue Sternberg who said that the absence of friendliness (as you describe to other dogs when she's on lead) is a red flag - that is not a neutral behaviour and seems consistent with the issues she's having.

About using toys as rewards, I wouldn't worry to much at this stage of her training whether she brings them back. To try to get them back if she doesn't bring them of her own accord risks making the experience a punishing rather than a rewarding one, and defeats the purpose. If I was using a ball as a reward for your dog I'd probably just throw it and let her decide what to do with it. Even if the human in a situation like this understands the contingencies as 'you (dog) must come when I (person) call or I will X (in this case, go inside)' the dog may still not understand that there is any relationship between what it does, and what the person does. If this is the case, then the dog will not be in a position to change it's behaviour, as it won't even occur to it that by doing something different, it could cause it's person to act in a way that it would prefer (or alternatively, if it did change it's behaviour to try to get it's owner to do something different, it would be likely to chose doggy strategies such as jumping up, licking etc, rather than the kind of things we actually want it to do).Working on this behaviour in the places you describe is a good idea, but her behaviour (in not having learned what you've been trying to teach) tells us that she doesn't get it (the only way we can tell what we have managed to teach them is by how they respond). And that will usually mean that you have to go back to the beginning, form a plan for communicating it to your dog more clearly, and re-teach it.

As far as reinforcement options, some possibilities include you running, especially if you zig zag and (pretend to) deliberately run away from her. This will often really switch a herding dog on (try to behave like a sheep or a running dog). I do this with my dog, even if I haven't actually called him, wait for him to get almost to me then take off. I wouldn't do too many zig zags though, some herding dogs get a bit snappy if their 'sheep' doesn't do what it's asked. You can also use it before she approaches you to establish an association of 'come'=fast running away owner(=big game). Does she like toys? because as she comes up to you, showing her a ball and then throwing it in the direction she's running (so that she doesn't have to slow down to follow it) can speed up the recall. Do you quickly release her once she comes to you most times? Because that is often the best reward possible. When you put a food reward in front of her nose, does she usually take it? And after you use the lead to get her to come to you, how do you then try to reward her? I actually wonder whether there is something else going on here, and that rather than it simply being that you haven't yet found things that genuinely reinforce her behaviour, she has not actually had a chance to learn the behaviour yet. Reeling a dog in for eg will be counter-productive in most cases - it doesn't teach them the behaviour you want and makes them more likely to avoid coming close. I would be working in a structured way, starting by associating a position close to you with the 'come' cue and rewards (of whatever kind), gradually adding distance, calling from short distances and when she's likely to respond so that you build a strong reinforcement history, working on this behaviour under calm conditions (not when she's at the park), etc. Hope this helps.

Sounds like you've made great progress - well done!

You might be lucky.I was under the impression that it was shadow chasing that was the issue. What is actually happening with the stand for exam?

Adults dogs can still be crate trained - my dogs were not babies when I crate-trained them. The difficulty is that if you don't use one, and your dog starts to go to the toilet on the floor, what are you going to do? Verbally interrupting can cause the development of fear of toileting in front of you. So the crate, that discourages her from going when she's in there, is ideal. I think that using time-outs as you describe for mat training would be pretty inefficient - it takes too long so that your dog won't be able to tell what it is that made it happen. Also, considering that at this point she won't have any particular bond with you or history with you to tell her that you're generally nice and give her good stuff, it might undermine the development of your relationship/trust. Actually, she may also therefore not think that being outside (away from you) is any worse than being inside with you. I would certainly recommend mat training, but taught by reward only. She needs to be able to explore the house, but in a way that you can manage what she does without frightening her. Closing off most of the house, only allowing her access to a small area to start with would be wise. Doing lots of settle training and once that it is happening, using an umbilical lead (sounds silly I know, but can be helpful) would also be good.

Botheration - there is no harm at all in trying the clicker and seeing whether you like using it. As others have said, it is simply an efficient way to use the laws of learning which, if you are succeeding in teaching your pup you are evidently managing to use already. However, I suspect that as you progress in your training and set your goals higher (longer, stronger responses, responses when the rewards available aren't right there etc) you might find that it is very helpful, as it more difficult to communicate these more subtle details of behaviour without a precise way of communicating with your dog. Btw, love the name Martha for a dog (being a Dr Who obsessive).

I agree with the previous post that a whole working day is too long for a dog to crated. A pup would need to go to the toilet during that time, but even if a dog could hold on for that long, it would be unfair to crate them for so long. And yes, as you say your pup would probably have even more difficulty controlling his behaviour in the evenings after a whole day crated. A 'long term confinement area' (ala Ian Dunbar) would probably suit your pup better. Can I ask what you mean by 'the obedience training isn't working'? You seem to be being taught methods that use a lot punishment. I think if you were to start to learn about reward-training methods like clicker training I think you may be surprised at how much easier it is to use. You should be realistic about what obedience training can accomplish though. Depending on what is taught in your class and how it is taught, it may not have any impact on your dog's general behaviour. About the lead-walking - if you wanted to try a different method of teaching it, this is a good general description... http://www.clickertraining.com/node/541 Another Karen Pryor idea that I use alot is to set up some markers (5-6) on the ground with about 2m between each and the dog (who is already familiar with the sound and meaning of a bridge/clicker - KP also have info on her site about how to teach that) on lead. You just start walking and as you step level with the marker (before you stop walking) give the bridge sound. This will cause the dog to orient to you - they then get a treat. Usually even before you get to the last marker the dog is totally attentive and engaged with you because they are waiting for the next click. As soon as that happens, you can start to bridge for that attentiveness. Then you move the markers gradually further apart (I usually just take one out each time). It's important to teach your dog the skills of nice lead-walking when you aren't actually walking (for eg, around your house and yard). When you are out with your dog, the rewards in the environment (which he is trying to access by pulling towards them) are likely to be stronger than those that you can offer, at least early in your walk. Can your pup be in the house with you while you cook? Teaching him to settle on a mat would mean that he was calm and quiet and not too in the way - and while you prepare food is the perfect time to teach him that the settled behaviour you want results in good rewards. When my dog sees me put the mat on the ground he gets so excited and can't get there quick enough. And finally, about the sniffing, what you've written about that doesn't worry me particularly. If the other dog tolerated it for so long, and then your guy backed off when it asked him to, then it suggests to me that his manners are pretty good. Young male dogs go through stages when they're a bit too interested in some things - mostly they grow out of it and develop into nice polite dogs if you don't make too much of an issue of it (it definitely shouldn't be something over which there is conflict between you and your dog). Teaching a positive interrupt will help you deal with this situation in future - I like this description of how to do it - from the bottom of the 1st page onwards http://www.berkeleyhumane.org/PDFs/Resourc...sh_Reactive.pdf Hope this is some help - good luck.

I think you would teach it just like a retrieve but with increasing delay of the return to hand and increasing movement while holding (taught separately and put together when the dog can do both well by themselves). And you would want to have long duration when you're not out walking before starting to do the behaviour in very short stints while walking. Is your retrieve a play retrieve that developed more or less naturally or did you teach it bit by bit? (If you did the later, it would be really easy to extend the behaviour.) Sometimes I see a Lab walking with a toy in his mouth - I'm sure he's not forced to do it (by anything except his instincts) but he drools something shocking and I always think he looks uncomfortable. And can't do the other stuff he should be doing while walking, like sniffing. But something smaller like the Flattie is carrying would be better.

Is what you're thinking of similar to the retrieve? (because for most dogs you do need to teach them to keep hold of the item and move with it in their mouth). Will you be using rewards and a bridge/clicker? That's certainly how I teach this. Break the task into smaller units (eg., shape taking an offered item into the mouth, picking it up from the ground, give it to hand, hold it for gradually increasing duration, move with it in the mouth etc.) and teach each as independently as you can of the others. Some you can't - obviously you can't work on most other bits of the behaviour if the dog doesn't take the item in their mouth first. Put them together when all are well understood. I don't think it'd be really comfortable for a dog to carry something in their mouth all through a walk though. But there are so many other tricks you can do with take and carry. Like this...

An internet acquaintance had the eye colour change quiet dramatically (from greenish with a small amount of blue to amber with much more blue) in a blue merle Koolie bitch - it seemed to be associated with her coming into season (not sure if it was her first or second season - she was about 13 mths old). But it doesn't seem to be normal in Koolies/merles - I haven't heard of any others.

Lucky, lucky you! My advice with toilet training an older dog that either isn't toilet trained, or that you don't know is, is too treat them just as you would if they were a new baby pup. Use confinement to a bed sized area (with you nearby so that she doesn't get stressed) to discourage her from going before you take her to the place you want her to use. Take her out hrly at first, but make a note of when she goes and then you can take her out according to that schedule. Her toilet training will probably progress much faster than a baby's and you should take the lead from her. Reward her when she goes where you want her too (with food), ignore her if she happens to go in other places - it could become a problem if she learns that it isn't safe to go to the toilet near you, and my opinion is that many rescue dogs come already having learned that, unfortunately. If that is the case, however, chances are that if she never has the experience of being reprimanded for toileting near you then she will probably separate any previous negative experiences from her experiences of living with you.