ducky

The number of people that come to the obedience club I instruct at with stuffed up dogs that have only been trained to sit is enormous.......... Don't worry I have wrapped my dog in bubble wrap placed him in his cage (which is bubble wrapped too), and when he is let out for exercise I will hire a seeing eye dog to lead him around by the harness (can you teach me how to get my dog to hold the harness, I'm thinking duct tape). He will be fed a liquid diet through a tube so he won't choke on a bone, and water will be intravenous of course in case a bee lands in it and he get's stung in the throat.

Just an innocent question for you - how do you know that what you are doing/going to do for the next 6 months before you see a pro is the right thing to do? Imagine if its not and you are potentially stuffing the dog up. Not going to do any training with him in regards to protection so I won't stuff it up

Thanks for the support and thanks for the advice and some info, started to see the other side when I read K9 force post when he wrote like a pro, not going to rule it out just going to wait 6 months to see what temperement he matures too then if I think he's ready I'll go see if K9 force thinks the same and abide by the decision till then I'm still not going to tell my pup he's a pointer and see what other fields I can train in for my and my dogs enjoyment, so keep an eye out at the local greyhound track he may be racing. You can't take all what I wrote in there serious I was playing up a little at being a Bogan, as if I'm going to get pissed with me mates at me barbie and dare them to put on the sleeve

It's english, just tried to get a bit more respect for my dog by saying it's german. Where can I do the scent detection at can you just go without your dog to learn the theory or is it your dog is to sniff this until you move onto the next bit?

:cool: :cool:

Did heaps of research on that months ago and basically no chance in NSW there is no clubs to join specialising in that, there is one in Vic and she was great on advice but there was just no pro's I could find on that as I did read a book on that subject and thought I've got no chance without training in a club and there are no clubs to join specialising in non sport search and rescue and you can't help in proper searches due to some cowboys a few years ago.

Well I had outsiders look at it from outside the debate that weren't involved and sometimes you have to admit that if everyone thinks that way then I am probably wrong. Guess I just bristled up and didn't want to listen when it started getting pers against me especially about mistreating the dog and having no idea on anything. Will stop for the next 6 months and if I'm still interested in doing it that $20 aweek saved will go to a pro. Can't keep the ear muffs on forever. Now here is a serious question I'm not looking for another 100 post slanging match, what other training fields can I go in I am only interested in practical things please forget about the breed of the dog. I would love to do Scent training using pseudo scents (narcotics), doing now to a basic level Tracking (Basic only trained in so far too many bindies at the park and too many snakes on the bush tracks near my house so rested the last month) Suspect Discrimination through scent (german book I'm reading now, no clue on it) Lurching And is there anything else practical, not interested in anything gundog related as I handed my rifles in years ago and can see no use of him bringing back a plastic bird for applause. Not interested in any type of sports like dog dancing, or chasing a plastic bag. Now if I'm walking into another trainwreck by being interested in one of these let me know early cause I didn't know bite training my dog questions would cause such an uproar and finger pointing. Am I still nieve?

That's right he is going to be the James Bond of the GSP world!

Very true :cool: Bigger Bullies hey?? Plus I buy Australian and soon when we pull out of Iraq we will be struck from the 'Who he delivers to list' read that blurb on his website really inspiring on which countries he won't deliver to.

There is abit of a difference between you and Claudia Ramrod…Claudia has been involved in trialling Schutzhund dogs since 1984…her first dog was titled Schutzhund III 24 times, she has also competed in the BSP German Championships. In 2006 she placed second in the USA Schutzhund Nationals… Now that's Claudia's experience..... heres Duckys experience with training dogs in bite work…"I train dogs to bite a towel wrapped around my arm"… Frankly Jeff i am dissapointed with that last line, we all know your better then that, go and think of a better one and edit it. Put the lid on the garbage with the edit (I'm the garbage Jeff).

Sure - shame I will never be able to compete......... I am very familiar with the sport of schutzhund and I know whats involved. I also keep telling you that no club will take you to do the sport as you dont have the eligible breed. Countles people go to the dogsport club with their staffies, amstaffs, xbreeds. Hey who knows the club might even see a pointer there one day :cool: Plenty of dogs here love tugging and people use this motivator to teach dogs various things. Flyball people tug, retrieving people tug, agility people tug, obedince people tug, I tug and I mainly show my dog. Ok the kid question good question but not really in the realistic world ie if my say 13yr old kid said he wants to be an impressionist artist and loves playing the piano and wants to give up Rugby League I would stare blankly at him for a good 30 seconds then we would burst out laughing I would say you nearly got me there Junior then we'd have a beer skullling comp and my 12yr old duaghter would be egging us on by singing chug a lug chug a lug, so not really realistic their Myshka Have a look through my posts and please copy and post where I said I wanted to join a schutzhund club if you try doctoring it may trick a couple of readers. Why not choose flyball or people tug instead teaching it the sleeve? Why how much would my mates laugh at me at me barbies and they would be saying my dog bats for the other team but they won't be saying it when I say put on the sleeve oh no I will get some respect then!

I would love to see that seriously, especially when it's sent after Jeff as I am sure if Jeff 'Runs the foxy owner will send his dog so please run jeff please run' (check his signature). I'm pretty sure while he is running with his hands flailing in the air screaming "This can't be right, this is not logical it's not the correct breed, he didn't get my tick of approval, oh my ass hurts"

You did a couple of lines up something about a doberman doing earth dog work, just need a bigger hole/tunnel and I'm sure he's figure it out there's hope for your doberman encouragement is needed for him not mocking don't you ever watch Oprah. He is being trained for the sleeve, read K9 forces reply to me where he considered that being a kind of sport not personal protection, I suspect there is a major difference between playing tug of war with fabric on your arm to patroling the perimeter in search of baddies. I don't think he has the tempereament for Personal Protection but I know he loves playing with what he is doing, and once he gets to a stage I am happy with I will take him to a pro but I know he is going to say cuddles ain't cut out for taking down a suicide bomber.

I love my last line so much I'm putting it in my signature, hopefully I can educate the masses.

ok picture this.... my face screwed up like a rat laughing like the 'revenge of the nerds' narph narph narph narph, that's me mimicking you guys. And yes I have seen relos use cattle dogs as pig dogs and fox terriers as finders, guess they don't subscribe to your theory, to use a nerdy saying that you would understand 'thinking outside the box'. Even todays Telegraph had pictures of the explosive dogs used in Iraq one was a kelpie cross and the others looked a bit of a cattle mongrel mix don't those losers know what are they doing herding sheep & cows in Iraq come on guys laugh with me narph narph narph. And my last cattle dog on command (wheres da wabbit) would put his nose to the ground and find me a wabbit every time, guess he didn't know he wasn't bred to do that as I kept him in the dark. narph narph narph My old chiuhuaha would go on a run through the bush for 15k's then swim across a river she wasn't told she was bred to wear a pink bow in her hair and be carried in one of those faux leopard skin handbags. Though whe was the only rabbit dog I have ever seen copping a hiding from a rabbit but I guess she just didn't know she wasn't a greyhound (kept her away from the dog track & mirrors). My dogs don't have a peer group saying they can't do things, you guys should try my dogs way of life.

Bingo! What you've written is what I came to hear, I said previously that I just want to teach to bite up to the sleeve then if I want to take it further go to the pro for advice, the danger I see in that that if anyone jumps the fence wearing a soft looking plaster cast on his arm then he can consider himself unhealed other then that walk past the dog, pat him on the head and take my 'Kiss' video tapes I can't see a dog trained in that as a menace to society. I wouldn't attempt in guard or aggression work cause I don't have the heart for it as some books instructions are a little 'cruel' , so will just go with what is his natural instinct and see after I get him to the sleeve work what a pro will tell me. Why a pointer as I researched they are friendly and not the coldest beer in the fridge so I wanted to challenge myself and see what I could do as I would respect more someone who say taught an Irish Wolfhound Obedience then a GSD. Why won't I take him to be assessed now cause the response would be "Get cuddles out of here' so want to give it a go to the 'sport stage' then see what I sould do. And I have no hesitation that my dog would do the runner on me if I was assaulted but I don't judge him on that, and I'm not going to rely on a dog to protect me or my family I am going to rely on me and the vulcan death touch but still let me have a go at training it.

Nice bandwagon jumping guys I can see you on it now patting each other on the back, giving each other the 'smiley nod look' like singers on Aus Idol and of course keeping a sly eye out for a greyhound trainer to pounce on. Your all right, I know nothing about dogs as I only have 30 posts I actually think I may have a cat, a large cat named 'Butch', and to the poster who pitied my cat as I mistreat him you are right he is kept in a cupboard and only brought out to bite a towel then back in the cupboard where he enjoys hosings with a fire house (got that training off an 80's Stalone movie) then I butt out a few cigarette on him. And vetenirary work why would I take it to a vet when I have watched so many episodes of 'Mash' and if Doogie Howzer can do it so can I! Training, yes your right my cat and I have no idea and just bounce ideas and theories off each other then give it a twirl, why once when I told Butch to sit he molested one of those guys dressed in a koala suit getting donations he was just on his leg going for it and no matter how many times I said 'enough' he just hadn't had 'enough' so I just took a seat and waited to hand him a cigarette after it. Now it's onto the next unPC poster you Texas Rangers, look for someone with low posts who doesn't know of the unwritten code of respecting the posters with higher posts then you and who dares to say I train my dog on this way when he should know that he should keep it secret and hide it as poeple can read him or threaten to take his cat away using council bylaws. Caesars I Salute You Peace

pointer, What I did before was start off with a rag with tug of war then move onto similar material towels wrapped up in larger and larger sausages holding it in the air giving a comand when he was going for it and jumping around the place when he grabs it and play tug of war until he looks like he is going to give up then I let it go. The way to make him release... I use the word 'enough' which I used all the time with him and the new dog which basically means whatever you are doing now is annoying me so stop it from licking my face, eating a shoe, not letting go off the tug toy if he still holds on I use the same way you give a dog a tablet push his lips into his mouth doesn't hurt the dog he just knows if he continues biting he will bite his own lips (which they never do) or I just stick a couple of fingers in his mouth if there is a gap and I have never had a dog in 15 years who has bitten them as from a puppy I will always take food from their mouth's when eating then give it back. Then moved onto the same material towels wrapped around my arm, that was from guesstimation...... If I ever told my dog to attack then someone holding a towel was going to get it taken off them if no one was holding a towel then he would look blankly as I never hid the towel by wearing a jacket as I never wanted to take that step. So my theory is that it is an easy train to get to that level if you use the same material 'toys' that get biggger and bigger over a period of time and to turn it into a true attack dog you use a hidden sleeve so he can not see that he is after a toy but an arm. I haven't done aggression training or guarding training as I want them friendly. But as teeneagers we used to teach our dogs the skitch by the owner saying skitch and the mate running for it calling the dog then having a wrestle with it at the end then more stuff after that where it is turned into a game. But now that I have read a few books that seems my theory proved to be right with the sleeve but I am not going to train it in guarding or aggression and let that be natural instinct but due to the socialisation I have given to my dogs they would drop a ball at a burglars feet but if I was to decide to move onto the hideen sleeve then it should be a simple instruction to attack. I don't see the whole training procedure as difficult as what people make it out to be.

The original question was where can I get training gear in Australia, but presumptions being presumptions it turns too ... "I have figured you out in 5 posts and you are going to be a menance to society, you've never owned a dog before, you have no idea what your doing and you collect Hyper Colour t-shits" And alot of posters talking themselves up, I have no need to justify what my experience is, my life story, and why I should be accepted into the fold. I will find a trainer when I am stuck on an aspect of training for advice that I can't figure out but any trainer who spends half the lesson telling me that he is the man (Jeff Jones) and how my life is better now that I have met him will be wondering where I walked off too for the other half of the lesson without paying. I have succesfully trained a dog before in bite and sleeve work without reading any books through guestimating, the only problem I had with him was kids breaking into my yard to take my dog to the park to fetch the tennis ball for them when they were playing cricket.

Sorry missed a bit.. my pup was too small when I started to move to buckets so after the hands I moved to matchboxes with only one matchbox out of 5 having the object to find then when he finds it reward him then keep doing that for a while then start putting other objects into the matchboxes of differnt smells even treats but he only gets rewarded when he indicates the object you want then move to the tupperware containers (not see through) using the same method as above then after a while move those tupperware containers into the buckets. Later change the objects that hold your scent that you want detected with different containers ie metal pipes, pvc pipes, wooden containers what ever you can think of.

Laffi..... if you hold a leather object in both hands the dog won't have a clue cause they both smell the same... what I found best find an object that you want to train your dog on finding do the old put the hands behind your back trick and have the object in one hand with say a treat (i used chicken) then when he goes for the chicken the other smell say leather he inhales too keep rewarding him with the chicken. Keep on doing that changing hands don't worry about washing them he will go for the strongest smell then remove the chicken from your hand and he should signal on the leather then make him sit and reward him with chicken keep going on that for a while. Later remove the food treat from the reward and play tug of war with a rag (he will get his food after training as a reward) Then move onto buckets with lids in a line with a hole big enough just to get his nose in but he can't reach the object, then choose if you want a pawing response or a sitting response, only have one or two buckets with the object in say a row of 8 have a smaller same coloured tupperware containers (some air holes in the top lid) in there so he can't look into the buckets and see the object just smell it. Play with him with the rag when he sniffs the bucket with the object even if he doesn't indicate he will learn too just gee him up. Then there is more steps to get him searching rooms will tell you later if you choose this method. My pup is now searching rooms for hidden small objects but needs heaps more training but I found this method worked for me, best book I read out of 15 different scent ones was one on explosive detection just replace the explosives for whatever you want.

what's the use of coming to a forum on training and the advice is pay someone, why doesn't this training forum just have adverts with if you do it yourself your a moron. Not learning anything here just getting baited.

I can tell you that i feel like a "sucker" thinking about the $$$ i've handed over to "expert" dog trainers without success , though my dogs needs/training is totally different to yours...... ......... ( still waiting on my promised written full report from "The Pawman" from a month or so ago :shakehead: ) If you want me to put a list of books on here that I thought provided some good instruction let me know, you learn for next time to get as much info and do as much by yourself until you can't figure out a specific point then get some pro help for only what you need. As someone said to me earlier that most of these Gurus in dog training are self taught guess they didn't need to find a Guru to find their own way.

Thanks Myszka good points made in your last para. Everything she said Adding Building Drive Focus and Grip DVD Thanks Kavik More good points Nekhbet Jeff if you have nothing of benefit to add jump on the bandwagon on another thread and harass someone who likes there 'cavoodle'

Thanks Myszka, what dvds did you find informative?