*Lolapalooza*

I am so sorry for you loss Amy, what a shame. I hope your baby finds my crew in heaven and they can be buddies

This nob of a vet was the oncall guy, he is usually a cow vet and doesnt consult the small animals. Even the vet I saw monday and who I called yesterday re follow up did not give me confidence. My usual vet has just retired due to cancer (v sad is only 49yrs old) They are the only vet around here who do after hours the rest send you to Anzac Hwy which is about a 50k drive. So I was stuck. Thanks Leanne I really appreciate your offer, i was almost going to call you the other day to ask these questions. Please give Scarlett a kiss for me.

Oh my god what a cow Ruby is!!! I did read December and all through this I am so thankful that my bitch is ok, LMWS's loss was heartbreaking something you could never get over. I am sorry for you also BB. I forget that it is not just me that bad things happen to, I have just been killing my self this week with grief and disappointment. Even very experienced people don't breeze through whelping and puppy rearing....crap shoot is a great description. Thankyou everone for your input/help I really appreciate it and this forum is such an excellent tool I often do searches on past topics for opinions, education. Next time I will probably plan an elective caesar, If my repro vet thinks it is advisable (not my oncall vet!) I would love a daughter of my girl but first and foremost i want to do whats best for her.(and my mental health! ) Thanks again

Congratulations RKM. Thats a nice mix of males and females in your litters, good girls

I don't want to upset you with my answer and no doubt there will be other opinions but.... If it were me, if she were visibly contracting and obviously uncomfortable, I would probably have erred on the side of caution and I would have called the vet on the Sunday night. This is almost what happened with Koda. She got VERY restless and was obviously not happy at about midnight on the Saturday night after her temp had dropped at midday Saturday. I watched her all night and when nothing was happening by about 5.30am Sunday morning, I rang the vet. I was at his surgery by 8am and the first puppy was out by about 9am. At the time, it wasn't a true "emergency" and we could have proceeded a few ways....oxy shots and monitoring, do nothing but watch or go in and take the puppies. As it turned out, it was lucky we went in because the placentas had started to separate and two of the puppies were showing meconium so they were definitely ready and starting to stress. The vet commented at the time that had we not acted when we did, or had I waited until the Monday there probably wouldn't have been any puppies alive. As it was, there were 9 and all survived. BUT...we can all be wise in hindsight. Thanks Ellz Im not upset it is done and dusted, the only thing we can do is hope people learn from this and what happened to Koda, is still f***ed though and my friends often give me crap because I am 'anal' and over prepared I was trying to just be patient. Gingers ?contractions looked like small period cramps or poo pains that we might get so I thought the pups were just moving into position. Even at 10 am Monday the babies were doing karate so I stupidly waited for labour to start. Every bitch is different and its best to be anal than so so sorry Its so so true that in hindsight I know I would have my babies...... :D (my mum jsut told me that her hairdresser told her this week that her schnauzer x and white fluffy had babies this week...she didnt even know the bitch was preg until she woke up in the morning to 3 puppies in the garden.....FFS, I bet if I bred Ginge to a golden retriever and went to a party sunday night my litter would have been super healthy and whelped in 2 hours )

Thanks Iziah I keep telling myself that but feel like such a bloody idiot/failure/ Last question............... Ginger also had a tummy crap (small contraction) at 9.15 Sunday night and 11pm Sunday night and then nothing, she was restless that night I was assuming labour was coming but not that it had perhaps started................(only thing I can think of that caused the dead babies is maybe she started labour Sunday night but didnt progress to proper contractions until 2pm Monday....by then too late for all but Fat Boy Stubbs) She didnt go into proper labour until 2pm Monday, would experienced breeders have called the vet Sunday at 11pm after a small (any) contraction like that assuming labour was starting??? She never nested, went off her food, broke water that I could see thats why I didn't

I cant stop thinking about my lost puppies on Monday (see Feb Litters Thread) I have de briefed with many people as I just cant work out what went wrong. I saw mucous strings on Ginger's pants at 4pm Sunday, I spoke with a friend last night, she said that usually the mucous occurs after the water breaks....Is this true???????? Everything I have seen/read says that mucous can come in the last 24 hours but not that it means water has broken...........

Ginger's dam in Sweden had pups yesterday, she had 6pups 540g-740g so obviously size is usual for her family her dam whelped tham all fine , Ginger whelped 5 pups in 3 hours so you're right somthing weird happened..........I guess I will never know what. Stubbs has put on 50g in 2 days so thats good. If I ever ever am brave (stupid) enough to do this again i will have to do an elective caesar I couldnt stand the worrying Here is another pic of Stubbsy today doing pilates in his warm box.

Just back from vet check he thinks Stubbsy is ok and Ginger is great so thats good. Just gave her a wash on the back end so she feels and looks prettier. The vet today thinks that the pups were just way too big and got crushed in their passage, so maybe doing the caesar would have saved my last 3 girls? Any way here is Stubbsy on the move.......

Welcome to my nightmare...................... We have one live male puppy here named 'Mr Stubbs' he is a champ and although took a bit of effort to get him started he seems pretty good. Going to vet this morning for a check up but he is eating pooping and has a great set of lungs on him. I have waited 8 years for this litter and it all turned to poo and there's nothing I could have done. Ginger started small contractions at 2.15pm yesterday got stronger at 2.45pm and whelped a huge 650g girl at 3.20pm, she was huge, perfect and I couldnt revive her. I figured it was because she was so big she had gotten stuck somewhere............ Second pup fell out with a gush 15 mins later 429g Mr Stubbs, I had decided that if this pup was dead I was going straight in for a caesar. I revived him. Next puppy had no tail and maybe no anus/sex organs so I did not even try to revive it. Starting to get very panicy and rang vets they said see whats next and call again because she was whelping in a timely manner. Puppy 4 was a huge 675g boy perfect, perfectly maked, unable to revive. Called after hours vet on call said I want in NOW for a caesar, we were only expecting 5-6 pups from U/S so the vet said not to come in, just to give her oxy shots every 20 mins until they/ it was out. He thought that due to the babies being very big they might have had placental separation and would likely be dead. Puppy 5 was giant beautiful girl dead. I rang vet again and said I think I can feel 2 lumps but had so far given 2 more oxy with no result so he thought it ws just her uterus. She was calm and settled so we had a sleep. Well at 550 this morning she had 2 more girls 650g and 785g dead the last one had rigor mortis setting in......... This is all such a nightmare, the only thing I could have done is plan an elective caesar for saturday but I didnt have a crystal ball........... Will put pics of Stubbs later when I can bear it. I am beating myself up about this even tho I know there were no indications for Caesar, she is from a family of easy whelpers and she is young fit and in great condition. She whelped huge puppies in a timely manner and I am so proud of her but feel so bloody bad....... Sorry for rambling am shattered my poor poor babies

Congratulations alpaha bet, cant wait to see pics! My girl's babies have been up all night doing karate but dont feel like coming out yet!!! I have been awake all night listening to her heavy breathing.......also go to fish her out of her bunker at 4.30 am this morning after she went out for another wee and poo and burned into her batcave

No........ I think we're thinking about , thinking about doing something.....but we're not sure what Still eating up a storm, has done a bit of renovation on her bunker outside today Love those baby danes!!!!!!

Tigga has a centre part Those baby cairns look pretty big!

Thats so great MM....bet you were thinking they would all be boys Nothing happening here husband has already taken the dogs to his friends place for a run now they are all flat out snoozing.

MissyMoo Has this now ruined your holiday???? 3 babies thats so great and all boys!!! Any more yet???? Wish mine would hurry up. I love Cairnys

That reads weird ha ha Girlfriend is Ginger the dog I have a husband DUH

Last night me and girlfriend settled down to sleep in the spare room (both on the bed) where the whelping box is set up, after 3 hours of listening to her huff, having her punch me in the head several times, having to continually be patting some part of her body, having her straddle me for pats, poke me in the eye and try and push me out of the bed I got up and went to my bed and let her sleep in the bathroom where she chooses to sleep everynight She's lucky I love her so much I bought 2 new books on Wednesday to take my mind off things.

I am imagining you running from box to box as puppies come out OMG What do you mean BOX!! ..these girls insist on whelping in my lap up on the spare bed if you don't mind..happy to go in box when it is all over LOVE IT

I am imagining you running from box to box as puppies come out OMG

My girl is fine, tight little tummy and giant hooters but coping beautifully. I got home from shops yesterday and she had a dirt moustache from digging her bunker in the garden, my cairn got in there with her was very cute. We arent expecting a big litter so hopefully all goes well. She is still eating like a horse and happy running around. waiting.... waiting...

Isnt it referred to as baby brain???

Yes 63 days from 14th December is definately 15th Feb You might be getting a surprise on your holidays.

Wasnt Tigga bred 14th December? My girl ovulated 14th December and is due 15th Feb............. OMG best I check the whelping calendar again

I am waiting too............ we are due same day Missymoo, noting happening yet, she is still scruffing up the other dogs when we play in the paddock not feeling maternal yet . My little mama has grown 3cm of belly in only 2 days the babies are packing on the beef now. Hopefully they slide on out on Sunday and can be Valentines day babies waiting...waiting...waiting....

Lots of Border collies are racist against my berners they often fly at them at obedience. My berners will drag me down the road if they see another berner without fail. They also love yellow dogs (goldens/labs), they like dark and red staffords too as my mum has one. They definately recognise different breeds