Mum to Emma

If you go back and actually read the rest of the thread, you'll see that vets aren't actually allowed to write scripts for medication unless there is veterinary equivalent. Those who do, are risking their careers. I think you mean unless there "isn't" a veterinary equivalent.

Because they should be working in the best interests of themselves AND the animal. A lot of animals are put down or dumped because owner's cannot afford the ongoing medical care. Other businesses DO do that! I work for a major international law firm and we regularly tell new clients to go to smaller firms because we can't do the work in a way that would be economical to them. We could "screw" a client thousands for a debt collection, but don't. We tell them to go to a debt collection firm who can do the job quickly efficiently and economically.

And they perhaps unnecessarily dispense medications to increase that profit. No one on this board wants their animal given unnecessary medicines to improve a vet's bottom line. Yes, the equipment is very expensive. And they recoup the cost when they use that equipment. That's why an MRI for a dog is (and I can't remember exactly) about $1,800. So that argument is gone ... What people want is open and honest and voluntary disclosure. A lot of people on this board are breeders who are vet savy. They know what something is going to cost, and know what questions to ask. Most people simply have their family pet and probably would be surprised to know that their chemist can even fill a prescription for an animal. Don't you remember the days when you couldn't visit the vet without them suddenly whipping out a flea collar and slapping it on your animal, and shoving a worm tablet down their throat without bothering to ask if you'd wormed them recently? Well since the proliferation of supermarket pet care products, that profit line is out the window. Oh, and another example of a medicine sold at a wildly inflated price is Trental. $38 for 50 at the chemist, $120 for 60 at the vet. They actually had the gall to comment how expensive the medication was going to be, without suggesting there was a way I could get it cheaper!! Only research on the net led me to find out how much cheaper it would be if that drug was prescribed to ME. I'm more vet savy now too and once I know long term medication is required, will ask if I can get a script. Vets (with the exception of the eye specialist) don't readily volunteer this information.

The responses to this thread are understandable and predictable. The main point of the discussion from my point of view is that vets by all means charge an appropriate fee that reflects the work performed and the services provided, but not to load the bill with excessive marking up of drugs which distorts the true cost of the service. Ah, this is a subject dear to my heart.... I totally see where you're coming from poodle3081. And I resent the implication by some (most) who have posted here that owners who want medication at a fair price are somehow negligent skin-flints. I spent over $7,000 on one of my dogs in the course of a week (he subsequently died) and don't regret a cent of it. BUT I question why vets routinely charge wildly inflated prices for common medicines. As an example - Maxidex. It's $25 at the vet and $7 at the chemist. Oh, and my pet doesn't have a Medicare card, so the argument that what I pay for her meds at the chemist is somehow subsidised by the PBS is ridiculous. I do understand that vets themselves can't buy it at that price and would expect it to be marked up about 100%, but over 300%?? I would assume the chemist is making a profit and has it's own mark-up, so my god - what does the medication REALLY cost?? $1?? The point is that when it comes to medication prescribed to animals by vets, unlike with doctors, 9 times out of 10, the customer is not given the option to shop around for the cheapest price. With everything else we buy - be it medicines for ourselves, petrol for the car, milk for our cereal - we have the CHOICE to shop at, say, Safeway (for price) or 7-11 (for convenience). Sometimes we'll go for convenience over price. And the same would apply with vet meds. But so many vets do not disclose to their patients that there IS this option - that they can get a prescription and have it filled at chemist for a fraction of the price. This is both unfair to the owner AND to the animal. I'm in a position where I can spend $1000s on my dogs, but how many animals suffer because their owner's stuggle to pay the vet bills? I'm sure the vets on this board will now howl out "Oh, we know which owners are struggling and will help out" but how do you know this? Just because someone drives up in a nice car doesn't mean they haven't just lost their job. And they're not going to tell you this, are they?? Imagine the howls of protest if GPs could dispense medication. There'd be accusations of overprescribing across the land. And some WOULD overprescribe - just as vets do now. Doesn't mean they're not good vets. But as you say, they're running a business too. So perhaps that month they're not meeting budget - would it really do any harm to prescribe some antibiotics for the dog, they may think, even though odds are the diarrhea will be gone in a couple of days anyway? Now not all vets are like this. Emma sees a wonderful eye specialist who when I asked for a bottle of Maxidex insisted on writing me a prescription, even telling me to go to Chemist Warehouse because their patients find it the cheapest! The point is, vets should disclose the cost of the medication DURING the consultation (not just present it on the bill) and then, if possible, and if it's not needed immediately, offer the alternative of writing a script so that they owner can get it cheaper elsewhere. And they should not charge for writing a script if it's during a consultation (doctors don't - why do some vets need to?). Actually, in my experience I've found vet specialists far more upfront with their costs than regular vets. And it's interesting how the consultation fee and the cost of x-rays, ultrasounds, MRIs etc, mirror the charges imposed on humans. Yet the cost of medicines is so much higher (and so often hidden).

As the owner of two whippets, I can only imagine what you must be going through. I wonder if she could have been bitten by a spider? I know what you mean about leaving them unattended at a vet. Fortunately in Melbourne we have several vet hospitals that are open 24/7, where emergency staff are with the animals all night. They cost big $$$, but it's worth it.

My vet recommended splitting a larger sized tablet between my 2 dogs. The heartworm protection component of the tablet is less weight specific than the general worming component.

Emma (whippet) was unwell (lethargic, wouldn't eat) for a week after her last dose of Interceptor. It makes me reluctant to continue using it, even though this is the first time it has had such an effect on her.

We are discussing the SICK dog diet are we not. The OP was advised to use it for her SICK dog. Lets start another Vet bashing thread. Who said here that Vets pushed it as the dogs regular diet? And how about a "Food Nazi" thread? Dogs - like people - aren't scientific instruments which require X amount of vitamins minerals to function. There are plenty of dogs out there who live long and healthy (and happy!) lives on a diet of PAL or of table scraps. Not everyone can afford super premium food nor have the time or inclination to prepare a barf diet. Do what's right for YOU and YOUR DOG.

Emma's pinneal thrombosis was caused by over vaccination (the white blood cells coagulate in the ear tips, scarring the smallest blood vessels which hinders blood flow and causes ulcers). The white blood cell count is highest in the week following vaccination. I continued to have her vaccinated annually as the specialist didn't concede this was the cause, until one year the ear swelled up like a balloon. The specialist then agreed that the c5 vaccine was overloading her immune system and to insist on c3. The kennel cough components of the vaccine are largely useless anyway - how many people board their dogs and they come back with kennel cough anyway?? She's now 8 years of age and I have her vaccinated about every 2 years with c3. If she wasn't such a scavenger when out walking, I'd probably stop this too. Perhaps someone could explain why we humans are only routinely vaccinated as babies against mumps, rubella, polio etc, yet dogs and cats supposedly require annual shots?

Emma broke several of her teeth after being left unsupervised in a cage at the vet. Broken teeth (particuarly with the pulp exposed) is considered an emergency if you want to retain the teeth. Fortunately she was already on antibiotics when it happened so the veterinary dental specialist was happy to wait 48 hours before filling the broken teeth and checking that there were no roots retained in the jaw for those that were missing. If possible, ask for a referral to a dental specialist. They will give you lots of options including an implant. The average vet doesn't have the skill to perform anything more than polishings and extractions.

Sorry, not picking on you here - I fully respect your reasons for crossing the road when you see a Rotty, unfortunately the breed does attract a macho, irresponsble crowd, so I understand your reasons. However... Just what do you think a Rotty weighs? I always cringe at the "they weigh more than their owner" type comments. They go right along with the "Yeah, I used to have a rockwheeler - he was this big" (holding hand up to chest height). The average weight for a Rottweiler bitch is 40kg, for a dog 50kg Must be some mighty petite Rotty owners you are talking about if the dogs weigh more than their owners Large, powerful dogs can pull twice their own weight - so a 40kg dog will be effectively uncontrollable by an 80kg woman, or a 50kg dog by a 100kg man. We've all seen people struggling to control large dogs of all breeds. Let's face it - it's the same argument truck drivers use when defending their behaviour on the roads. "But the Hyundi driver was driving eratically too!". But what the semi driver conveniently ignores is the fact if HIS dangerous driving caused, for example, a rear end collision, his truck could run over the top of a car and kill 6 passengers inside. Whereas if a Hyundi ran into the rear of another car, it would only leave a damaged bumper bar!

When I'm walking my whippets I'd ALWAYS cross over to the other side of the street if I encountered a rottweiller or staffie because as an owner I DON'T know these particular dogs are like and, with the rotties, if they get agitated, odds are their owners won't be able to control them because the dogs weigh more than their owners. And if a rottweiller or staffie had a go at one of my dogs, it would kill it in an instant (whereas if, say, an aggressive yorkie attacked my whippet, it would merely take a nip out of a leg). And, yes, I'd do the same with other big breeds - even labs who as a breed can be a bit unreliable these days. Rottweillers and Staffys are wonderful dogs if they are perfectly trained and correctly socialised - if not, because of their history as guarding/fighting breeds, they can be dangerous. Even some kind, intelligent people who own them don't appreciate that.

(a) Trental is not on the PBS (b) I most certainly am NOT upset that I had to see a specialist. Vet's (like GPs) are inclined to shoot in the dark when something more obscure comes along . Specialists are most certainly worth the double consultation fee because they diagnose more conditions immediately, which means quicker resolution and less stress for the pet. Oh, and my vet has 25+ years experience and is highly regarded in the profession. But there's just some conditions that they just don't see ... (c ) You still haven't given me a good argument why pet meds should be marked up 100%. Yes, vets have overheads - so do GP's. The consultation fee is the same. My GPs doesn't charge for a script if it's given to me as part of a consultation. Nor does my regular vet. But the vet specialist DOES. (d) Don't put words into MY mouth either. I said dispensing meds left vets open to the accusation of over medication - just as it would some GPs if they did likewise. I didn't say it happened at all vets - but I'm sure that in a small number it does. (d) I would be very happy to go to chemists for everything IF it meant I got a fair price. What upsets me is that some pets will suffer because their owners can't afford the medication. Some will immediately be put to sleep beacuse their owners are horrified when given an estimate of the cost to treat them. I'm sure we're all aware of situations where that has happened. Pet care shoudn't be a privilege of the wealthy. But while vets don't do everything to minimise cost, that is what is happening. And that is very sad.

Well, by saying this you're supporting the argument that pets are prescribed medications unnecessarily in order to increase their profits. If vets don't stock meds, they won't prescribe them unless it's necessary. Vets should give people the option to buy, for example, cortisone eyedrops directly from them at $20 a bottle, or from the chemist at $10. The fact is, they don't even give people this option, nor let them know that it is available. And - be honest - writing out a prescription is no more onerous that writing out an invoice. I am free to shop at Bunnings OR the local corner store. One offers price, the other convenience. Either way, the choice is mine. BTW, it was anticipated that Emma would be on this medication for life. By buying the meds from the vet, I would have been unnecessarily supporting his profits to the tune of an extra $292 a year, in addition to the annual revisit.

This subject has always been a pet-peeve of mine (pardon the pun!) When Emma was first prescribed Trental through by veterinary dermatologist, the specalist centre charged me $100 for 60 tablets. I didn't know anything about the drug at the time so didn't question the cost. However, when I did some research on the internet, I found that I could buy them at Chemist Warehouse for around $40 for 50 tablets! That's a 100% mark-up by the vet. Now I would assume that the chemist is making his profit, so why does the vet have to double that? They gave me all sorts of excuses such as "Oh, we have to buy them through a veterinary wholesaler", blah, blah. I'm all for vets charging the same consultation fee as GPs, BUT like GPs, they should NOT be able to dispense prescription medications - they should be forced to write prescriptions that can be filled by a third party ie a chemist. By directly selling expensive medication at such inflated prices, they only leave themselves open to accusations of over medicating our pets. After speaking to Chemist Warehouse and being assured that they would fill a veterinary prescription, I insisted on receiving a prescription from the vet so that I could buy the Trental elsewhere, which they did give me - at an $11 fee on top of the consultation fee of $120 (again, WHY do vets charge to write prescriptions, yet GP's don't??)

Thanks for all your good wishes Bobby is home now. Somewhat zoned out by the opiate based painkillers. He's booked in with the internal medicine specialist tomorrow, hopefully for an MRI, which my vet said should show what's going on with the pancreas AND the lymphatic system. Even though the blood tests didn't detect pancreatitis, he seemed to think that pancreatic inflammation was the most likely cause of the pain, and that this was brought on by the prednisolone. Bobby's legs are a bit puffy tonight, which my vet said is probably another part of the lymphatic circulation problem. He's been in a cage for about 36 hours, so without exercise his legs are swollen. Hopefully by this time tomorrow we'll have a better idea of what's going on.

You are right. I look him to the emergency clinic early Sunday morning. He has acute gastric pain which returns whenever the painkiller injections lose effect. They've run a lot of tests and have found a shadow on the right front chest, which is probably the cause of the lymph drainage problem. He'll have an ultrasound today. They don't know the connection between the gastric pain and the chest swelling. The clinic has been very upfront with what all this will cost, but I'm not worried about that - I'm not going to let him go without doing everything that can be done.

I took Bobby to the emergency clinic overnight because he became very agitated - trembling, breathing rapidly. The vet said he had abdominal pain which would be either gastric or pancreatic. He has no sign of diarrhea or vomiting, so I'm worried it may be the pancreas (a side effect of the prednil). She gave him a painkiller injection and at the moment he's sleeping calmly, without the rapid breathing. Will ring my vet today to see if they can get some blood tests done asap.

Thanks for your replies. He's on it for (what the vet assumes) is an allergy which caused fluid to collect under his jaw and neck. The prednil definitely fixed it, and after a week we tried to cut back the dose to one tablet every two days but the swelling immediately returned. So it was back to the full dose. I'll speak to the vet on Monday to see if we can move to half a tablet every day (a reduced dose but same frequency). He is a slightly anxious whippet, but his behaviour at the moment is very much out of character.

My whippet Bobby has been on 5mg/day of prednil for over two weeks. I'm concerned with how anxious he's become - shaking, tense, rapid breathing. Melbourne had it's first sign of Spring today so I bathed the dogs. Normally he goes crazy afterwards (as dogs do :D ), bouncing around the livingroom. But today he just huddled in his bed, shivering. I'll be phoning the vet on Monday, but as prednisolone has "panting" and "restlessness" listed as 2 side effects at the PetsPlace website, could the drug be the cause?

An update ... After being on Prednil 1 tablet a day for 7 days, the vet said to cut it back to alternate days. But the swelling immediately returned. So I was advised to put him back on the full dose. The swelling and snorting has disappeared and after checking in with the vet today, I was told to keep him on the full dose for another 7 days before we try to reduce it again. I'm not particularly happy with this - it will be 3 weeks on the tablet-a-day dose. All for something (allergies) that hasn't been conclusively diagnosed. :D If it comes back again, I'll press for blood tests including thyroid. Strangely the only other symptom/sign of any change to his wellbeing is that he's become a whippet who "shivers" ... Don't get me wrong - he's always been a classic sensitive "whippet on the verge of a nervous breakdown" type of guy, but this trembling is unusual. Maybe he's just responding to my anxiety about his health

He's better, thanks Kirislin. There was no sign of any swelling yesterday, although there's a small pocket of fluid there today. For the moment I'll reserve judgement on whether the medication is working as this has been the pattern in the past (bad days followed by good ones).

He saw the other senior vet yesterday at the clinic who, like the other one, thinks it's allergy related. He said the position of the fluid doesn't indicate salivary problems, nor is there any indication of swollen salivary glands. He believes the lymph fluid isn't draining away from bobby's face and this could either be caused by an allergic reaction or some sort of mechanical problem. Bobby has been prescribed Prednil for 7 days and I'm to call Monday. If there is no improvement he will have to have a chest x-ray. He had his first tablet last night, but the swelling is bad this morning...

What happened to your IG is what I'm afraid of - that's why I'm so keen to get a diagnosis asap, and perhaps prevent the gland bursting. Did the lump initially come and go, before it was diagnosed? It's very frustrating. I get the impression that very senior vets will not consider a diagnosis because a condition is rare, whereas those with a middle range of experience will consider something as possible, even if they haven't seen it before. The neck is swollen again this morning (although not at it's worst). Hopefully I can get an appointment in the next few hours so they can have another look at it. At least I have photos this time.

Well the swelling went down over Sunday night and by yesterday afternoon there was no sign of it! I phoned the vet and we agreed to wait until some pattern emerges. For some reason the vet thinks its an allergy even though it only happens on the right side of his face. Personally I think it's a salivary gland that's blocking and clearing. Will just have to wait and see.