kayla1

For any fans of the tv show QI, tonight's topic is dogs. Should be fun. :laugh:

Sabella didn't begin to sleep properly during the day until I began supplementing her diet with tryptophan. At night, she slept very well. Prior to tryptophan, she would settle and not make a fuss during the day, but she would not sleep. I attributed the change to an increase in melatonin. Aidan which tryptophan supplement did you use?

My older girl Kayla had an unusual hind leg limp and I took her to multiple vets and each one told me it was arthritis. It wasn't until I took her to a specialist chiro vet that she was diagnosed with a spinal problem that was causing the limp, and the arthritis itself was actually quite mild. So I guess if you're not happy with how he goes then a second opinion can't hurt.

What an awful time for you. I really hope you have some support from family or friends, and that they can help you through this difficult time.

My girl Kayla was stung when we were being chased by them, and she became quite lethargic. She had antihistamine at the vets but was sore for quite a while.

Be careful if they are European wasps, they can become pretty aggressive when their nest is disturbed! I once walked too close to a nest (I didn't know it was there) and they chased me to the end of the street...

I haven't used it, but here is the other thread link

My old girl has just come off her break from Trocoxil - she really suffered without it, despite weekly acupuncture and alternative pain relievers. She went back on Trocoxil last weekend - it is kicking in now thank goodness. At her age, it is all about quality of life, and Trocoxil gives her that. My vet also uses Robaxin when appropriate - it is no use for us as the pain is all arthritic and spinal fusion. Re magnesium, be careful as it can cause massive diarrhoea. Often the muscle spasms are a symptom of the inflammation so it is important to control the inflammation. We did another lot of bloods while she was on her break - all good, so it appears she is coping well with the Trocoxil. I did a lot of reading before my boy went on it, and I remember seeing posts on other forums about people struggling to get through the month break. Good news that your girl's blood tests are all ok. Re magnesium, yes I'm always careful about introducing new things so I'll be chatting to the vet when Coco has his next acupuncture session. This particular vet is good because she also uses alternative medicines.

I agree with what others have said. Nobody should be made to feel bad because of efforts they have made to improve the wellbeing of their anxious dog. We used to have a lot of threads with corvus and others discussing the various training methods etc. I learnt so much from those threads, being able to see the differing opinions and training options. But we don't seem to see the healthy debates anymore, and I think it's a real shame. If people with differing opinions are driven out, we lose a valuable learning opportunity. Corvus I am also very interested in knowing more.

Sure, I would agree that inconsistency and unpredictability may cause confusion for a dog, possibly resulting in the display of anxious behaviours. In my opinion though, if this same dog displayed anxiety out of the training context is unlikely to be a result of unpredictable or inconsistent training alone......and more likely to be the result of a temperamental predisposition to nervousness/anxiety in general. The flip side is that predictable and consistent training in a dog like this can be beneficial. :) I hope that made sense?? Makes sense. :) Yes...that's why I think my boy is just a naturally more anxious dog. Like your boy, it helps that Maxie also has very good focus and a high value for toys - though training this was made a little easier because he has always placed a high value on toys and has an innate desire to please (unlike my girl Annie :laugh: ).

Kayla - understanding causation is very difficult. Also remember that consistency and predictability is different to routine. I would say the former two are critical and will help build confidence. The problem with routine comes when you change it - suddenly the dog goes from having daily walks at 6am and 6pm to nothing. What I try to teach my dogs is to go with the flow - yesterday all 3 went to the oval at about 3pm (plus errands) - pup pottered with me, Em did lots of running (retrieving training) and Zig did mostly low key obedience. I had a long day today so it's 7pm and I'm probably going to walk the dogs in the pouring rain. Pup will stay home alone for the first time. I might do some training indoors for their dinner. Anticipation of an event occurring can lead to further anxiety with a chain of environmental cues exacerbating it. Hope that is clear. On my phone and having a cheeky single malt :laugh: ETA: If I decided I couldn't be bothered tonight they'd all just settle in. These are fit, active dogs too. Thanks. When you say consistency and predictability, do you mean specifically in terms of training when the dog knows that a certain behaviour leads to a particular outcome, or is it more about how we interact with the dog in general or something else? I guess I mean learning - which means training and how we interact with the dog in general. Animals are better able to cope with stressors when the environment is predictable - that includes social, inanimate and predatory contexts. To put it another way, Nature may be cruel but she's bloody predictable! Thanks Aiden. For the record, I did put down the scotch glass and gave the older dogs a gallop! Ok got it, thanks! So it's that consistency and predictability, rather than the routine, that increases confidence. And I guess then being inconsistent and unpredictable in training and interactions can lead to confusion and loss of confidence, and possibly anxiety. Smartypaws, is that what you find with your dog too, that it's the consistency and predictability rather than the routine itself?

Kayla - understanding causation is very difficult. Also remember that consistency and predictability is different to routine. I would say the former two are critical and will help build confidence. The problem with routine comes when you change it - suddenly the dog goes from having daily walks at 6am and 6pm to nothing. What I try to teach my dogs is to go with the flow - yesterday all 3 went to the oval at about 3pm (plus errands) - pup pottered with me, Em did lots of running (retrieving training) and Zig did mostly low key obedience. I had a long day today so it's 7pm and I'm probably going to walk the dogs in the pouring rain. Pup will stay home alone for the first time. I might do some training indoors for their dinner. Anticipation of an event occurring can lead to further anxiety with a chain of environmental cues exacerbating it. Hope that is clear. On my phone and having a cheeky single malt :laugh: ETA: If I decided I couldn't be bothered tonight they'd all just settle in. These are fit, active dogs too. Thanks. When you say consistency and predictability, do you mean specifically in terms of training when the dog knows that a certain behaviour leads to a particular outcome, or is it more about how we interact with the dog in general or something else?

Re routine being a cause of anxiety, would this be the same for dogs that are fearful or lack confidence? I understand that routine can help build confidence in fearful dogs. Or is it a matter of gradually breaking up the routine as the dog becomes more confident?

That's really interesting. It's interesting to see the difference in how the dogs respond. If my dogs don't get as much exercise or mental stimulation, Annie will just become bored and destroy something. Whereas Maxie doesn't destroy things, he just becomes very anxious - can't settle, jumpy, on edge, and he trembles. The mental stimulation seems to help bring him down from this anxious state. So more like the second example in your post.

I was hoping someone was going to bring this discussion into another thread, so here it is copied from a thread in general... He must be a mental little dude then :laugh: I've found that dogs are very adaptable and mine don't have an increase in anxiety or reactivity if they don't get as much exercise for a little while. Or maybe you specifically look for little changes in behaviour that could indicate things. I also have a dog that will become increasingly anxious if not given sufficient physical and mental stimulation. It becomes very noticeable when I have long days at work and less time for training, and I can see his anxiety level increasing. He is extremely intelligent and has a tendency to be quite highly strung. A very knowledgeable behaviourist said to me "whatever mental stimulation he is getting now, he needs more of it". And he was right, when I increase the physical and mental stimulation, his anxiety and reactivity seem to reduce. Anyway, perhaps others can provide more info on why this might be the case in some dogs and not others.

No, actually I didn't know about magnesium for muscle spasms? Thanks. I've been using heat and massage mainly. He's had four acupuncture sessions now, and it wasn't until the last session that I really noticed an improvement afterwards. He hasn't had any noticeable side effects, apart from the increased hunger and thirst. Interesting you mention about overheating, I didn't know that was a possible side effect. His recent blood test was fine - well a slightly higher liver value but the vet said that was no problem. Yes that's my thinking too, quality over quantity.

Our 13 year old has been on it for 6 months now. It has been fantastic, far more effective than Rimadyl. Prior to that we had done a course of Cartrophen injections, which seemed to have little impact, but hopefully will help delay the joint deterioration. We did bloods first to make sure her liver etc were OK? On a previous dog we had used the Cartrophen and Rimadyl which didn't make much difference. I would choose Trocoxyl over Rimadyl because it is making a drastic difference to her life. She has to have a month's break now, and I am dreading it. I'm glad to hear it's working for your girl. Did you notice any pain coming through towards the end of each month? She definitely is a little more stiff at the end of the month, but is still better than my old boy was on Rimadyl or tramol . She has good quality of life on this drug, and it seems that if a dog tolerates it, it works really well with less liver damage than Rimadyl or Metacam. My boy has been on this for a couple of months now and has had no episodes of severe pain since he's been on it (unlike when he was on previous meds). He still has some mild pain and muscle spasm, and loss of hind leg function, which we are working on with acupuncture etc but it has greatly improved his quality of life. :) I haven't noticed any increase in pain towards the end of the month either, which is great.

Hi Kayla1 Just saw this and I wanted to share our experience, one of the dogs at work who is 14 years old went down hill after having a stroke. A few months later she was put on Young at Heart and the results have been amazing. She went from barely being able to leave the office to go to the toilet to running around, playing fetch, barking at the gate again (LOL) and when she sees me training the Mal pup I handle she runs down to the training field and tries to join in. It was truly amazing - I actually thought she was very close to passing away and YAH has really given her a new lease on life. Thanks for the reply huski. :) That's great, it's good to hear some positive feedback so I might give it a go. I saw the K9Pro email this afternoon so it's a good time to try it!

I usually err on the side of caution because a couple of my dogs do pick up stuff off the ground. I'm pretty careful about the plants I put in, and I've pulled out some plants that I read were poisonous (some type of bamboo I think with red berries). If I didn't pull them out I'd be worrying about the dogs getting into them, and I'd rather not have the extra stress!

I ordered mine on Thursday lunchtime and it still hasn't been shipped.

I don't post very often but I do enjoy reading this thread to see what great results you are all getting. Must admit to feeling a bit guilty because my own training has taken a backward step (or two, or three...) for various reasons this year, but hoping to get back into it. LAT is great so I'm planning on doing some more of that, with extra one on one training and walking (which will have the added benefit of improving my fitness level :laugh: ).

Interesting that all sizes are out of stock.

My order hasn't been shipped yet either, though they weren't listed as out of stock when I placed the order.

I've ordered enough toys to last for a year, until the next free shipping. :laugh:

Good to know. Even though I don't use it, I know plenty of people that do split doses.