RuralPug

It is important to know your own limitations and resources so that you CAN rescue on a long term basis. I will PM one that are always looking for volunteers to help without fostering but still in a hands-on way... And studying Merryn's manual first means you will be forewarned! It's always wonderful to talk to someone who is asking around first

You are looking for a larger dog for a regular running companion that is known to be tolerant with kids, will train well in obedience, has a low prey drive, high exercise tolerance and not a breed known for "voice". High grooming needs are also okay. I would probably begin by looking at any of the non-working line retrievers - goldens, labs, flat coats, curly coats etc. If you are wanting a puppy to raise with your children your way, bear in mind that too much exercise at a young age is not good for growing joints in the larger breeds. Kudos to you for starting your research to find a dog that is just right for your household!

The benefit of a pedigree = known bloodlines. You can have bad bloodlines as well as good ones, as was Haredown's point. You will need to avoid possible negative spin in your message - so is known bloodlines a good or a bad thing? For me it is the most important thing, because knowing the bloodline helps me to judge the "product". But is it for everyone? Can the right message make everyone find this desirable?

What Aprha said. Perfect place to start. What area will you be moving into?

DPI needs to define "breeder". I cannot find a definition (outside of those registered as DAB which is a bit circular). If anyone else can, could you please point me to it. Nowhere can I find a definition that begins "Breeder means ... " I cannot see why rescue groups with 3 or more entire females at one location should not be expected to follow the minimum breeder requirements of management plans, veterinarians on standby, record keeping etc.

The issue is simple, is black and white, only if everyone is on the same page about definitions. Let's be honest about that - it rarely occurs that a large group of people are all on the same page with every definition for any reasonably complex issue. If you choose to believe that cross-breeding, for working or otherwise, is unethical per se then you are not on the same page as me. If you choose to believe that purebred breeding, pedigree or otherwise, is ethical per se then you are not on the same page as me. I would like breeders to be able to point to an accreditation that is trusted by the public as meaning they are ethical and responsible. A code of ethics is not enough when there are too many instances of breaches not being investigated. So far the only accreditation that I would personally trust is the MDBA scheme although there may be others of which I am unaware.

Thank you Moosmum, I now feel that I know where you are coming from and understand you a little better. In my mind the two sides are ethical and responsible breeding vs unethical and irresponsible breeding. Affiliation does not automatically place a breeder on one side or the other unfortunately, hence my plea for quality control/accreditation. It is possible for cross breeders to be ethical and responsible, although it is currently extremely rare for a number of reasons. I have very definitely chosen a side!

"like"

Yes a much more sensible idea than a ninja groom!

If using a crate - use one with hard surfaces that are easy to disinfect, so no soft crates. I'm pretty sure that towels and sheets can be soaked in F10 for an hour or so, allowed to drip dry and then be washed in the ordinary way. Using sheets and towels over a hard surface like a poly tarp or rubber-backed picnic rug should protect your car surfaces from infection. And basically DO NOT handle a dog straight from kennels or pound and then go and cuddle someone's new puppies.

Actually, since your dog came promptly when you recalled her I would call that effective control. But, as you said, had you been paying attention, you would have called her back earlier so maybe not. Hmmmm, geez, I am such a great help! Glad the Mal's owner was on the ball there. Even people with DA dogs should be able to exercise them (believe me, muzzling them gets too much flak from idiots. More trouble than its worth. ) So the guy with the Mal sat down far enough away so that you could have (and did) recall your dog in time for him to react and stop any aggro from his dog? I would say that you are both reasonably responsible owners.

There is ALWAYS a point to making important information easily accessible, Powerlegs! Yes, yes please do write up a 'best practices' post for pinning regarding quarantine/holding periods/disinfection processes. We can't force anyone to use best practice but it will be great to have another place to point so that we can inform and try to educate! Some of the other things you have mentioned may need their own pinned threads. :)

Just a quick initial glance...surely their maths is up the putty? I don't see how the minimum required socialisation and human interaction times can be met using the minimum staff to animal ratio? Which means they need to decrease the number of animals that is the maximum for any one staff member in their version of business hours. The ratio they do propose is quite ridiculous, most boarding kennels have a higher staff to animal ratio and here we are talking about breeding establishments with higher needs than just housing. I will take the time eventually to do the maths and include it in my response. Most of the other stuff I object to is already legislated and this does not make it any clearer.

Kudos to the breeder in getting the whole registered name on the microchip form! It isn't easy fitting it all in to the little space. I see he is in a Tasmanian shelter. Hopefully the Victorian breeder has Tasmanian contacts who can assist if she feels it necessary. Nice spotting Gillbear!

But people do! If you get a wonky version or a bad deal or a lying salesman from an organisation most people will bad mouth the whole organisation and will not choose to use that organisation again. Instead of a valid accreditation system, you say caveat emptor to the extreme. When you choose a car to buy do you research without reference to accreditation systems like ANCAP, road tests by motoring organisations etc. etc. and would you deny any sort of similar accreditation for dog breeders? Imagine having to choose a car based ONLY on the advertisements of the car salespeople plus your own weighing of how well those salespeople "will live up to the truths they promote". Bear in mind that the average dog should last the family longer than the average car. Moosmum you are telling people to do their research first but are against a system that would provide a ratings system or quality control measurement that they can use to make comparisons. By doing so you are actually giving the advantage to the non-ethical and irresponsible breeder. I would prefer quality control - a way to measure levels of responsiblity and ethics. An accreditation system that gives the advantage to the ethical and responsible breeder. Please don't confuse membership or affiliation with accreditation.

I want to discuss quality control for exactly those reasons spoken about in this thread by other people. We have seen what happens in the past when a breed has become popular - it's quality drops because Ted and Harry and Martha and Alice all jump on the bandwagon and breed them willy-nilly. We are seeing today what has happened when people try to get the message across that you are safer to get a puppy from a "registered breeder" - either people confuse registered with ANKC/GRA etc. with council, or the PIAA, or whatever, or 'greeders' get themselves an ANKC registration and dilute the brand. What I want to see is a breeder's accreditation that is actually monitored and enforced so that it means something to your average man in the street and that means quality control first, marketing second. I know the MDBA are doing quality control and I support that. It is an excellent beginning. And slightly OT, I think the message getting out there (via US memes largely) to 'adopt, not shop' has found that pounds and shelters ( and, yes, some rescues) sorely lacking in placing the right pets in the right homes. Hence the rebound surrenders, onsells etc. Plus the message ""don't buy from pet shops" has been warped into "don't buy from any breeder". These are the reasons I worry about getting the message out before quality control - if a lot of people listen, try it and then get their fingers burnt, you will have damaged the brand badly.

I know your intentions are good, and you would like to see the dog comfortable but most unfortunately should you clip back the dog without the owner's consent (OR a vet's assertion that it was necessary) you could be charged with some ridiculous offence or other. I like Clyde's suggestion, or you could call at the house yourself and offer to clip her back and show them how to keep her groomed afterwards.

What Haredown said. I, for one, simply do not want to assist in marketing a shoddy product. I want to assist in marketing a quality controlled product. That is what is important to me, and I hope, most (if not all) of us here. Edited for typos.

Yes. I really would like to see more people organising transport and foster care thinking about holding periods and hygiene. I always allow two weeks quarantine where the animal has been roaming or in kennels/pound prior to coming to me. Which means that I can only take in one at a time and frequently none, as I am holding in quarantine for another rescue, and I only have quarantine spaces for one dog and one cat (although in both cases I can hold a pair if they come in together). In an ideal world, each rescue group would have some carers who specialise in initial holding periods with housing and toileting surfaces easily disinfected etc.

Think about what you stand for. Think about what you want your prefix to give an impression of - is there some particular aspect of your breed that you value above all others? Is there something you want to be known for? Then pick up a Thesaurus (or google one) and devise a few choices from that. This is particularly helpful to us on DOL if you choose your prefix that way. (Apologies to any ethical SBT breeders who have included "Blue" or 'blu' in their prefix.... )

I don't see that as a problem. To me, marketing the purebred dog per se will fail unless you first institute the equivalent of quality control otherwise you are only marketing a shoddy product (as the 'greeeders' do). (Ok, ok - we all know that our beloved dogs are family members first and foremost, please forgive me the businessspeak but it seems the clearest way to get my point across). Quality control = breeding practices. Ergo, any discussion re marketing of purebreds will always have to include breeding practices.

I see what you are driving at Moosmum, but I think you are assuming that all, or most, ANKC breeders are against cross-breeding per se. I believe that in fact many, are perfectly comfortable with the idea if it is done with foresight and care and for a worthwhile purpose. In fact ANKC affiliate rules of ethics state the breeders agree to not intentionally cross-breed. If you read the actual ANKC constitution, breeders and breed clubs are permitted to cross-breed with previous approval from their ANKC affiliate. Before getting any such approval of course, they are required to demonstrate a genuine need. Obviously making fluffy puppies to wholesale to the pet market would not be considered a genuine need - this can be done with purebreds (and, sigh, is far too often the sole and only purpose of purebred matings). I, and I suspect, many other AKNC breeders, have no problems at all with crossbreeding if it is done with foresight, care and the animals welfare. For example there are working dog breeders routinely crossing breeds as well as lines whom I wholeheartedly support. There are breed development groups doing the same. In both cases, pedigrees are kept, but not as the general public understands "pedigree". So I believe we are, in general, against THOUGHTLESS or IGNORANT breeding, be it pure or cross. I think it is important to make this distinction, and to date, the purebred world in this country has NOT successfully got that message out to the general public. They seem to have the impression that ANKC registered breeders want everyone else to stop breeding so they have all the high prices to themselves. This is not helped by those ANKC registered breeders who are thoughtless or ignorant or, in common parlance, "greeders". So, to get the right message out there, you first all need to agree what IS the right message and secondly how to organise to deliver it? ANKC and affiliates are basically a studbook registry and competition organiser. It is simply NOT set up to run the kind of promotion you are seeking. DOL is, in and of itself, a place set up for the promotion of purebred dogs, so you are not going to get very many deliberate cross breeders in this group. What message do you want to promote? What group do you want to organise the promotion? If the ANKC and affiliates, how to you propose to fund that? If a new group, how do you propose to fund that?

Keep asking around in rescue..a grey would be perfect. Is it just greys they don't want or all sighthounds? There are quite a few grey crosses and whippet crosses in rescue. Saluki may also suit, I'm unsure about Borzoi, anyway there are plenty of staghound types out there needing rescue. As pups they are boisterous but settle into grey-like couch potatoes at about 4 or 5 years. Trawl through PetRescue, pers, at least that shouldn't be too depressing.

You need to judge the risk of your pup contracting parvo...if you are going to keep her inside and take no outings or if there has been no parvo diagnosed in your area for over a year then I guess two vaccs are probably enough. But in my personal opinion, if you want a well socialised dog, then take your puppy out a lot and get the third just to be safe. Edited for fat finger typos.

Already had my say elsewhere but I will point out that I am so glad the media in that town is highlighting this (maybe only so they could mention a reality TV star but still). Hopefully the councilors listen to the people of the community and tell that shire employee to keep his prejudices to his own time. There are too many LG officers like that one. Edited cos my fingers sometimes do not connect to my brain.