RuralPug

Sadly, it does sound if she has never been socialised properly. The anxiety and fear aggression that you are describing sounds a lot like that found in ex-puppy farm breeding bitches who have been confined to a single property their whole lives. Their rehabilitation needs time, time and more time. It can go faster if you have behaviourist advice. Let us know whereabouts in Victoria you are and you should be able to get some recommendations for behaviourists in your vicinity.

Spot on, Roova! Apparently Stan's Mum had the assistance of a neighbour to focus their attention - isn't it a stunning photo!

You have nearly answered all your own questions in that first post! Nekhbet can give you the correct guiding advice that will give you the confidence to retrain her. To respond to your queries about why your two are so different, puppies are born with their own temperaments but early nurture and socialisation are what determine just where on the bell curve of behaviour within that temperament type that each puppy will end up. So the different upbringing would have had a huge effect on them and the lack of early socialisation in her case is a large part of her current problem behaviour. You also ask if her behaviour is fear based or dominance based. Firstly, those two motivations are not necessarily exclusive - any given dog can be motivated by either at varied times and occasionally both together! Secondly, based on your description of her behaviour, I'd say that most of it was anxiety based. In my opinion, most resource guarding is anxiety based. A confident, untraumatised dog does not fear the loss of the resource (having said that, refusal to share food is not, in my opinion, resource guarding - it is most often just plain healthy greed ). Not every one will agree with me, that's okay. They are allowed to try and convince me otherwise and vice versa. Re the breed comments, I can also share a recollection. A friend in Canada who is a dog trainer/behaviourist of many years standing took and retrained dogs as a foster carer for rescue. A Pomeranian, Lola, that came to her as a foster stayed as a foster failure. She did agility, obedience, tracking and I think flyball successfully with her, but Lola was ever unpredictable and could launch into aggression against humans (including her owner trainer!) and other animals with very little provocation. Most of this was because at some stage before she came into rescue all her warning signals became suppressed. Lola (RIP) was affectionately known in training and rescue circles as "The Death Pom".

Oh what an absolutely stunning hound!

To me it should be whatever it takes to match each puppy with the most appropriate home. The breeder and puppy buyer will need to clearly communicate with each other for this to be successful. Usually this means the breeder should recommend the puppy most suitable for the buyer - in the end the buyer has the power of refusal: if they don't want that puppy they can go elsewhere. In some cases, the buyer will have a lot of knowledge and very clear directions as to the personality they require and in those cases I would expect most breeders will allow the buyer to have more say in the choosing process. Personally I wouldn't place a puppy with anyone who thought they could choose or order on the base of one single trait or whim - we are talking about a living breathing loving creature, not a new lounge suite. I would not have any problem with a potential puppy buyer wanting to spend some time with the litter (after initial vaccs had taken of course) but I would make sure that they understood that they would not have any sort of final say. Nor do I see any problem with keeping the pool of buyers updated with pics of the litter and all individuals in it as they develop to the point where matches can be made.Sometimes the puppies in a litter can create a sort of mini-club of owners who keep in touch with each other and compare notes on their puppies etc. I have known several cases where litter-mates were brought together each year on their birthdays by their respective families which always made a great day out! My point of view is for a litter of a popular breed where there is never much difficulty in placing puppies. In the case of a less popular breed, especially those with large litters, there could easily be more puppies than potential puppy owners - in those cases it is a bit of a buyer's market so to speak and the puppy buyer may well be offered more of a choice.

If they have two female Frenchies that get on well together they must be doing something right! Frenchies are full on! I'm not so brave and would probably add a male desexed Pug to that pair rather than a female, but if they can handle it, they should go for it! Fliss has been invited to judge the Pug National show in Canada, I think that it is soon, so be patient if they don't get an immediate reply.

I agree with HW --- of all the breeds mentioned above, the one with the most Rottweiler-like character (i.e. personality & temperament) would be the Tibetan Spaniel. It's a great idea to attend a few shows and get to know the smaller breeds - it all depends how much the look rather than the character turns you on.

Hmmmm, wouldn't take Perry Mason to set up a situation where half a dozen different rangers gazetted by the Minister as able to make such a declaration, were each separately asked to assess the same half-dozen dogs. Their answers would no doubt vary and therefore prove subjectivity not objectivity. It seems like saying that a prosecution psychiatrist is always correct and will always overrule a defence psychiatrist...surely the whole thing is disrespectful of our entire legal process?

I have multiple dogs and I find it really helps to get them to sit and wait for the command before they start eating - if nothing else it means they eat the bowl I have prepared for them and not the bowl for the dog that weighs 35kg more or is getting a different supplement! I think it is just good manners and they are less likely to steal food from a child as well. ETA - I didn't bother watching the video. Waiting for a release command can either be achieved with a tether (see TOT in here) OR simply by lowering the bowl towards the floor and raising it again if they break the sit or drop you have them in.

This bit sounds good to me: [list][*][size=2]Enable a Court to make an order disqualifying a person from owning a dog under certain circumstances[/size][/list] but of course the devil is in the details...

Maeby, we need to remember that the standard was written more than a century ago. Silver pugs were indeed in existence at that time and I have actually seen one in my lifetime - the base colour is somewhat similar to a Weimeraner. But we do not see them today, possibly for the reasons given in your quote. Silver fawns do still exist - their coats are highly reflective in bright sunlight - but are not common. It is possible that true silver is a double cch but that silver fawn can phenotypically be either cch incompletely expressed or C with some other modifier - that would explain why silvers are never seen anymore but silver fawns sometimes still are. The cch silver aqnd silver fawn has been bred out, but the C silver fawn has not. This is all speculation, because we can't find a silver to do a DNA test on! In my experience, you need a very light sprinkling of black hair throughout the fawn coat, which is a result of an incompletely expressed "smutty" modifier because the combinations of alleles that produce ""smutty" are linked to the ones that produce trace, pencilling, dark eyes and nails etc. It takes a mutation to break a chromosone and possibly shift linked genes onto separate chromosones so that you can breed out one trait without losing another. I was interested to read in this thread of attempts in other breeds to completely suppress that "smutty" modifier which result in a lack of desired pigment elsewhere. I agree with you that there are breeders that label dark smutty fawns as "silver" when they are not, and, a lesser sin, lighter smutty fawns as "silver fawn". Whether there is deliberate deception involved or whether it is just a result of ignorance probably varies. There is also the difficulty of picking the adult colour at birth as fawns and silver fawns can look silver at birth, the coat lightens over the weeks after birth, so if puppies are registered before the coat lightens errors can be made. Certainly what is TOO "smutty" to be acceptable can be a subjective opinion coloured by personal preference. Because the standard calls for "clearly defined" black markings in every colour except black then too much black throughout the coat will blur the edges of those markings which is why "smutty" is undesirable. My own personal marker tends to be the chest - if the chest is dark (not counting small white spots) or has a large dark blaze then that coat is far too smutty for my liking. But I would rate a very smutty pug with excellent movement, nice round (not protruding) eyes and large nostrils as better than a clear coated pug with stilted gait, protruding or almond shaped eyes and pinched nostrils, all else being equal. If I was forced to choose, I would err on the side of too much pigment rather than too little, light or "honey" eyes particularly, for me, ruin the Pug expression.

Are there new studies that confirm the bolded part of your statement? Could you share them please? Perhaps my information is not so up-to-date, I was of the impression that Pugs do not have the allele for tan points in their library at the A locus. My copy of Clarence Little certainly does not give Pugs that allele.

Danios I only meant that to apply to black Pugs - I have never thought to apply it to other breeds, but it guess it could apply where the same genetic black is present. You could be in a position to check it out in your breed, although you may feel the need to explain why you are bending down to scrutinise their undersides!

I voted "crate", because that is what I normally use for cats and small and medium dogs and the cargo barrier makes the back of my large wagon a "crate", although they are also tethered to the barrier if they are not yet trained to stay put once the tailgate is raised. On short trips I may also use harnesses and seatbelt tethers. On very short trips, if they are my own fully trained dogs, then they are unrestrained physically but sit or lie down where they are placed. I will always restrain fosters and "unknowns' that I am just transporting.

Lola F, your basic problem seems to be time as you are working full time. Putting the effort into training Leroy so his energy is constructively directed will need two good 20 minute minimum walks per day plus a couple of 10-15 minute training sessions per day and probably a group obedience lesson a week ( to socialise him and train you). Daisy needs time as well - time to take her to hydro, ideally daily but at least twice a week. You don't need a speciality therapy place after the first time - once you see it done any large enough body of water will do. Also try to think of ingenious training which she can learn while resting - maybe food puzzles or modified scent discrimination for example to keep her brain busy while her body rests. If you can find the time to train Leroy, keep him and he will be a great asset and a friend for Daisy, plus you won't be entirely bereft of dog love if it seems best to give Daisy her wings. If you can't find or make the time, then perhaps you can foster him until a rescue finds a forever home that does have the time, which might be the only guarantee of survival for him as there are not that many homes available for his type. While Daisy is on enforced crate rest indoors, provided you can find the time to exercise and train Leroy, then it is no hardship for him to also be on indoor crate rest to keep Daisy company indoors. If you can manage to move the crates back and forth, then Daisy could sometimes be on crate rest outdoors while Leroy is out. Only you can decide if you can find the time for these things. Altogether, you will probably need to find an extra hour or two each day (in bits and pieces) for probably two or three months. Once Leroy has been trained to your satisfaction he would only need the 40 minutes of exercise daily and 10 -15 minutes reinforcement training twice a week. Once Daisy's rest is over and she is clear of further problems, she could accompany Leroy on the walks and have her own 10 -15 minutes reinforcement training once a week. If her cruciate doesn't heal completely then she will still appreciate a companion, just make sure that they do not romp outdoors together - one is always leashed or crated when they are both outdoors and actively discourage indoor romping. It will work out if you can find the training time/commitment at the beginning. If that is not possible with your lifestyle, then seek to rehome Leroy. No one can decide what is right for your situation but you, we can only offer suggestions. Best of luck!

Maeby, no harm no foul!! Apology accepted, thank you. And, although my prefix is still registered with ANKC, I haven't bred a litter in over 25 years now, so it is hardly surprising that you didn't know I was a breeder!! LOL. (I could have done without the litters I have had to raise since from surrendered rescue bitches too far gone to desex/abort though. )

Wow! Firstly, Maebe let me reassure you that I had no intention of accusing you of anything. I regret that you felt insulted but feel that you may have been a little too sensitive. I was only trying to point out to anyone considering breeding that it is a terrible trap to concentrate on a single trait because you can lose sight of other important things. I try to be aware of the wide audience reading DOL so I probably lecture a bit, but unless I preface a remark with a username it is never directed at an individual. To those who regret losing colours because breeders don't like them, or a favourite stud didn't carry that colour, it is interesting to note that in Pugs, black, although not as common as the fawn, is the dominant colour genetically. Black Pugs were introduced to Europe later than fawns and several times the colour has almost beeen lost due to the popularity of the fawn. "Dominant colour genetically" means that you simply cannot have a black Pug unless one or both of the parents is black, but two black Pugs each carrying a recessive fawn gene can produce fawn puppies together. A black pug that does not carry a fawn gene cannot produce a fawn pug. The apricot, silver, smutty, rusty, blue etc are all created by one or more modifiers affecting the basic colour. Maebe, there is absolutely nothing wrong with making your choice of colour or patterning one of your breeding goals as long as it is proportionate to your other goals. I am glad that you have stated that you won't make the prime goal. There is no "taboo" on questions of colour, nothing wrong with your interesting question but the point about health type and confirmation being important too did need to be made, more so to those considering breeding. Please don't let a misunderstanding put you off asking more queestions. None of us ever stop learning and asking questions is a great way to learn.

Please don't put colour ahead of health, conformation and type. Good breeders are trying to get everything right, and sometimes to "set" one trait in a line you may need to sacrifice another and then try to get that sacrificed trait added later without losing the preferred "set" that you already have. This can be a very long term and frustrating process because of the arrangement of genes on chromosomes which can link traits in unlikely combinations or modify a wanted trait in an unwanted manner - a study of basic genetics will put you on the correct path. The illustration that you have used for clear coat is in my opinion undesirable as it has taken "clear" to an unwanted extreme losing the required black pigmentation in nails, trace, pencilling and forehead wrinkle definition. I would class that particular colour as "cream" which in my opinion is not permitted. IMO, the preferred colours in Pugs are defined thusly: Black - a jet black with a blue/black sheen.The toenails are all black, the eyes are dark. Apricot - a golden tan colour, with clearly defined mask and forehead wrinkes, with or without forehead thumbprint, all in black. In the true apricot, the ears, trace and pencilling are chocolate. The toenails are all black, the eyes are dark. Apricot Fawn - a fawn with apricot tonings. The clearly defined mask, forehead wrinkles, thumbprint if present, ears, trace, pencilling and nails are all black. The eyes are dark. Fawn - a fawn with clearly defined mask, forehead wrinkles, thumbprint if present, ears, trace, pencilling and nails are all black. The eyes are dark. Silver Fawn - fawn with silver tonings. The clearly defined mask, forehead wrinkles, thumbprint if present, ears, trace, pencilling and nails are all black. The eyes are dark. Silver - a dilute blue/grey colour similar to dark chinchilla. The clearly defined mask, forehead wrinkles, thumbprint if present, ears, trace, pencilling and nails are all black. The eyes are dark. Undesirable Colours Include: White patches - (S locus gone mad) More noticeable on a black but can also be seen in fawns - a small white (no larger than 20 cent piece on adult) spot on the chest is allowed, large white patches or chest blazes or white toes are strongly undesirable. "Rusty" - a black with apricot tonings. Can range from a minor bit of reddish hair on the rear flanks to extensive reddish hair throughout the coat - extreme rust extends over the whole body except for mask, saddle and legs. "Smutty" - a fawn with too much black in the coat. Can range from a minor bit of black tipped hair on the chest and flanks, to extensive black hair throughout - extreme smut extends over the whole body except for a black mask, saddle and legs. Often accompanied by a white spot or blaze on the chest. It is difficult to tell where the mask etc. ends and the body colour begins. Blue - a strong blue/grey colour. Usually accompanied by whole black heads, very wide black saddle and black legs. Cream - a pale body colour where the trace, pencilling and wrinkle definitions are usually missing. The mask and ears are black. The nails are usually clear. Albino - complete lack of any colour, resulting in white hair, red eyes and clear nails. Light coloured eyes are always a fault. Non black toenails are a fault. The common colours in Australian showrings these days are in order (IMO): Fawn, Apricot Fawn, Black, Smutty Fawn, Rusty Black, Silver Fawn and Cream. I have not seen a Silver in 45 years, I suspect the genetics for true Silver have long been lost. There are Blue lines in the US and also in Central Europe. Again, it is important to remember that colour is not the be all and end all. From memory, the late Susan Graham Weall's chart of points for judging pugs (a guide to how much weight to give each feature) totalled a maximum 100 points, the maximum points that could be awarded for colour and pigmentation is 25.

Yes it is all sorted now, thanks! I really didn't think it was possible, being so much at the last minute - now even more offers. DOLers really really are wonderful people!

Will share this via FB next week if that's ok with you, DD?

Thank you so much to Sue (only half hour from the venue!!!!) who has offered to dog sit for the day in her lovely runs and also to Kaye (of an inner Melbourne suburb) who offered her yard if needed as a last resort. DOLers are truly wonderful people!

LOL Clover yes it's quite hilarious to be a member of a club that is way across the state but I am never one to do things the normal way!

With black pugs, the "rust" can either be genetic or it can be enviromental (diet or too much sun exposure) or a mixture of both. Years ago for a short while I housed a "black" girl who would have been called bay had she been a horse! A reasonably good indicator is the belly skin - if it is a dark bluish colour, then you have a genetically solid black coat. If pink or pale, then the coat may never be a true rich black. I have always added kelp powder to my pugs diet to enhance the black - it works for pigment in the fawn as well (provided the genetic black is present). Haven't time to find it but a diet study was done and conclusively showed that black dogs can turn visibly brown if certain trace elements are missing from the diet. When it is re-added to the diet they will turn black again. The colour changes happen within I think it was six weeks in both directions. I remember reading the study and being chuffed because I'd been feeding kelp for years and it was quite high in this particular enzyme - science proves "breeder's myth" to be actually correct!

Yep it is confusing, but not all advice applies to every single situation. The easiest way to add a second dog is to get one that has similar needs and complementary temperament to your existing dog. For instance if your existing dog is a high energy people focused dog then ideally you would get another similar aged high energy dog with a high prey drive so that it was ball focused - that way they would keep up with each other when exercising or playing but would not directly compete (as competion might lead to a resource guarding situation). However, in the real world, the ideal does not always happen, and in my experience most second dogs can fit well into the family given some forethought and common sense. Most people add a puppy - puppies have greater needs than adult dogs so care must be taken to give equal attention to first dog to avoid the canine equivalent of sibling jealousy. Before bringing the puppy home, you will have organised an indoor playpen and or crate where puppy can be safely confined without restricting first dog's normal indoor access. For large breeds, playpen panels plus furniture can be used to fence off a portion of the living area. While puppy is under five months old (will vary according to breed size and development) you will always actively supervise the two when they are together. As most of us do not have the funds for a dedicated kennelhand, this is why the pen and/or crate are needed. It is both a time-out space for puppy to learn to rest quietly and a safe space where puppy can see, hear and smell first dog without being able to actually torment him/her. The initial training of a new puppy is best done one-on-one, or in a group with other puppies and their handlers, but there is no reason not to walk together with first dog as long as you have two handlers until puppy is fully trained and reliable. When selecting a puppy, you best bet is to find an experienced breeder who will meet your first dog and then pick a puppy that will be the best match for your situation. Try to avoid breeders who will sell you a puppy based on colour or whatever - let their experience recommend the best match from the litter.

I voted yes, but it would be conditional in my personally ascertaining that the dog would be happiest in her former home, which, given equal levels of love and care, would be most likely. In the past, the RSPCA would have reclaimed the dog, refunded the new owner and returned the dog to the former owner (unless there was any sign of neglect.) Obviously the current policy is to give priority to the wishes of the adopters. I'm not convinced that such a black and white view is in the best interests of the dog in every case, and believe that it should be on a case by case basis. I have rehomed several dogs that were surrendered with unregistered chips. In two cases, the chip numbers were fairly unusual which probably indicated that they had not been implanted by a vet, but by someone who had purchased overseas chips. The other number was normal. In all cases I registered the chips via my vet clinic. I would like to see ALL registries cooperating with PetSearch or a similar database, which would allow the registry to be identified without putting organisations and companies out of business. Let the public decide which ones thrive. I would also like to see breeder details permanently kept on the chip.