Bubbly

Mason can come home today! The Murdoch vets say he's much much better and has been eating and drinking without vomiting or bloody diarrhea. They'll wean him off the IV fluids and he'll be coming home late morning or early afternoon. We're so freaking relieved. Thank you to everyone for waiting with me and the encouragement. I was really going nuts yesterday when things didn't look so great and you all helped more than I can say.

Mason had some dexamethasone on Saturday for a vaccine reaction - we'll be very very cautious after this episode about any and all medications he's given. Thanks for sharing your pups reactions!

They think Mason can come home tomorrow! as long as he keeps on doing well we can bring him home in the morning. We sure miss the little man

Ultrasound showed no reason for surgery. There's no gas in the SI and, and only a little in the colon which is normal. No obstructive patterns etc. So he's been diagnosed with hemorrhagic gastroenteritis (HGE) - he's started passing copious amounts of bloody diarrhea this morning. There's a small chance the dex he got for the vaccine reaction on Sat, so that would need surgery but the surgeon doubts it. Mason is headed off to ICU for IV fluids and meds - they expect him to get worse before he gets better but they hope he'll be right in 24-48 hours. I'm gonna take a nap, I'm wrecked.

I really can't deal with all of this! I just can't deal with it.... The surgeon just called. He reports that Mason is bright, alert and sweet (was giving him kisses while he was on the phone with me). Based on the xrays he has, the history, and his exam of Mason he's not confident surgery is the best option. He thinks there is a reasonable chance this is all just really bad gastro. So, he'd like to do an ultrasound with the ultrastonographer (specialist at reading ultrasounds) before making a decision. We said fine! just please give us some answers. He wants us to make the best informed decision possible, possibly save us a lot of money, and as a surgeon says that waiting for the u/s will not make a difference in how bad his intestines might be when they go in. He says waiting 24 hours would make a difference - but the 1-2 to get the u/s won't. He'll be there all day and has nothing scheduled so he can go in at any time should Mason's case warrant it. He was much more upbeat - without making it sound like Mason was out of the woods. This back and forth is killing me....

Thank you thank you everyone I hate waiting. CDM - was Buli really sick before the surgery?

My 12 week old puppy Mason is about to go into surgery for an intestinal obstruction. Please send positive vibes - we really need them. The vets now think the retching on Saturday we thought (and our regular puppy vet thought) was due to a vaccine reaction was actually due to a migrating obstruction... So please keep our baby in your thoughts

I'm so sorry Nekhbet that your beautiful pup was stricken with parvo! Unfortunately, vaccines are never 100% not matter how much or how little you give them. In your case it was probably his breed that was the problem - not your vaccine schedule. Unfortunately, some pups are what are called "non responders" and that means that a vaccine won't ever seroconvert them. Black and tans like Dobes and Rotties are notorious for this! and it's why many vets will do a single parvo only at 18 or 20 weeks. To try and make sure they've given the pups as much chance as possible to seroconvert. If I ever have a black and tan pup know I"ll be titer testing to have the most knowledge about my pup possible. So, a disclaimer should really be put on this thread that if you have a black and tan there are other things to consider - like titering after every vaccine.

That all makes perfect sense, it's like us getting shots as kids and once you have the antibodies that's it for life, so... why have the medical professional vets been recommending annual vaccinations then? Same reason drug companies are now recommend adults who've had chicken pox get the vaccine in middle age.... MONEY And Cavandra is right (I seem to agree with her a lot ) Vets are following protocol. The immunology courses taught at vet schools vary a lot - because of who teaches the classes. So if someone researching new vaccines is the professor you get one kind of class and if someone researching immunological memory is the professor you get an entirely different outlook! For example the head immunologist at University of Wisconsin in the states (Dr. Ron Schultz) has been pushing to end yearly vaccinations for over a decade (maybe over two decades) because his research is in immunological memory - not in vaccine development. Vets and MDs often rely on drug company reps to educate them for lot of reasons so if a vet hasn't spent the time on his/her own educating themselves they are leaning on what the drug companies say. There are ways to change that, but thats a whole nother topic!

For a great overview of canine (and feline) immunity please go through the presentation here: http://www.newvaccinationprotocols.com/ Here are some things to consider in your situation. Once a puppy has seroconverted they have been vaccinated. Once vaccinated they cannot be vaccinated anymore. In other words once the immune system has "learned about" the disease through one modified live vaccine, you cannot boost immunity. So if you really wanted to know if your pup seroconverted you could titer him now (look around for decent prices). That would tell you if either of his previous vaccines worked. Then you could wait a year before deciding how you want to approach adult vaccinations. 79% of puppies seroconvert if vaccinated at 9 weeks 95% of puppies seroconvert if vaccinated at 12 weeks and reportedly 99% of puppies seroconvert if vaccinated at 16 weeks (this study was performed on Rottys, who seem to be harder to vaccinate, and these studies were done with older vaccines so the newer higher titer ones probably would seroconvert more puppies at younger ages.) The newer Neopar vaccines are labeled for an early finish, as young as 10 weeks. Ask you vet what brand they use. C4 vaccinates for the parainfluenza component of canine cough. There is controversy if the strains in the vaccine are actually the strains that are out in the population. Parainfluenza results in a 9 day self limiting cough - that rarely has complications. C5 vaccines have parainfluenza and the bordatella component of canine cough. The injectable boratella vaccine does not give good mucousal immunity - which is what a puppy needs to avoid a boradtella infection. AND it only lasts for about 6 months for the average dog. Think about that long and hard, it DOES NOT give the immunity your pup needs to avoid the disease and it only lasts 6 months - not the year before they say you should get another. Bordatella can be harder to treat than parainfluenza - but the injectable vaccine basically does not protect your pup. If you really want to protect him from boratella the intranasal is a better option for mucousal immunity. My pup got a C4 at 8 weeks and is getting a C3 today at just under 12 weeks. The vet uses neopar vaccines. He won't be getting anything else until maybe 1 yr when I haven't decided if I'll give one more C3. The only reason I'm contemplating it is that the canine immune system matures at about 6 months and I'm debating making sure he's got one C3 after that. If anything I want to do requires "proof" I'll get a titer done. If they won't accept that then I'll find something else to do Good luck! there's a lot of info out there and I can be very overwhelming. That link I posted is a really really good presentation. Please go through it if you still feel confused. It even has references you could bring to your vet if wanted.

As long as no one is eating the dog poo does it really matter that there is salmonella in it all poo is full of bacteria anyhow. In all seriousness though, there is bacteria everywhere, including all over kibble. Cavandra is right, there have been multiple food poisoning outbreaks that can be traced back to commercial food. If you practice safe meat handling skills you will be just fine

Thanks for posting these Bully. Those are some great articles!

Oh I didn't think you meant to exclude them! I just wanted to make sure Stormie took a look :rolleyes: If and when you get the time it's a really interesting read. The article is a review, but the references are awesome.

I know you we're directing any further questions at me :rolleyes: but there ARE peer reviewed articles linking desexing and osteosarcoma, one of the leading cancers in Danes - and at least one article liking desxeing before 12 months with oesteosarc. I think thats solid enough to wait until maturity.

This one is a review article but you can look up the journal articles it sites, it talks about increased risk for osteosarc in large breeds. http://www2.dcn.org/orgs/ddtc/sfiles/LongT...euterInDogs.pdf