arianwen

K9... thank you for the advice ;) They are willing to try to save the dog... however as usual money is a consideration for them. I am able to supply them with a pen. What does the pen situation treat? Because not only is he dominant, but he is fearful. I think his experience with humans was limited and completely negative. The other thing is, the family needs training. The lady is very very timid and the man eggs the dog on by growling back. When he growls in some situations they laugh at him. He is allowed to sleep on the bed and on the lounge, he has run of the house all the time and she gives him treats even when he is being naughty. Training dogs is one thing... training their humans is much harder... I looked into this boys eyes... it is heart breaking. I wasn't afraid of him and I could see that was unusual to him. Unfortunately I didnt bring my gloves with me. Normally with a dog like him I show them that biting doesnt get a repsonse. I have been successful in this way with other aggressive tibbies. The way I normally handle such dogs is to 'armour myself up' so if I am bitten it doesnt affect me... I can ignore it and send a message to the dog that biting isnt the solution. I begin obedience training as normal while armoured up. The most punishment they receive is a 'NO' when they do something wrong (or sent for time out), but they receive praise when they do something right more than anything. The routine is strict and I behave around them like it is always a training session. i.e. they are only rewarded (with playing, treats etc) when they do something good. That has worked for me in the past, what do you think? I wish I could take him out of the situation because I do have experience dealing with tibs like him... no where near as bad, but perhaps it is just the situation making him SO bad. However, I would never rehome him and I have no room for more residents.

Just so you know, bit of info about me and where I am coming from... -been breeding & showing tibs for ten + years. -did cert III in an. hus. -worked as a veterinary nurse for a while. -worked at the RSPCA for a while. -been a groomer for a while. -worked for the council in animal division... saw many many dogs from gorgeous temperaments to savage nasty creatures. -have done rescue for years -have done obedience (not competitive) I am not a professional trainer or behaviourist, I was just doing a temperament assessment for rescue purposes (because rescue people have to do those to assess a dogs rehomability), I am sorry if my use of the term 'temperament assessment' offended people. I didnt mean it in a professional trainer/behaviourist way.

My thoughts exactly. The reason I am posting is because I promised I would ask if someone wanted him. He is not at all suitable for rehoming (I do QLD Tibbie Rescue and that is why she contacted me, so I could rescue him. If he came into my care I would have him PTS)... but there was always a chance that an experienced trainer out there might like a nutty tibbie as a pet! *L* She was so upset... This dog is amazing... he is like a wild animal. Seriously. You can only interact with him if he wants you to and only to a small extent. Sometimes you can rough him up and sometimes you put your hand near him and he snaps. He is amazingly bad... no words for it really. If someone would like to go around and see him I will try to arrange that. Really, you have to see it to believe it. When the lady gave him a schmacko, she pulled it out of the packaging and he jumped to try to snatch it out of her hand and she pulled it away... he growled! He growled and tried to bite her! Every time he jumped up at her to get it and she pulled it away he would snarl and bite at her. Then when she finally gave it to him he savaged her hand!! He growled and savaged her hand while removing the treat. I asked her if she is able to take his food bowl off him... she said "NO! I wouldnt dare! That is the first time that he bit me, when I tried to remove his food. You arent meant to be able to take food away from a dog anyway, are you?" I told her quite the opposite! You should be able to remove food from any good dog and it should be taught to ALL dogs from day one! Whatever happens, the dog needs to get out of there. They are not experienced enough and dont understand that their behaviour is making it worse. I feel so sorry for the dog... but it is so dangerous with children around...

There are qualifications!? *LMAO* Serious questions, when I was in training there were none. I have a cert III in an. hus, inc. behaviour. Not that that matters. I do however have a lot of experience with this line and know just how aggressive they can be. I lived with one for ten years.... I have already suggested they see a professional trainer... I told them it would be expensive and he will need specialist care. Not to mention the dog is too dangerous to stay with them, it is too risky with the children involved. I told them my recommendations would be completely different if they didnt have kids. They are not keen on a trainer. You see, this dog was dumped on them basically, with the assertion "oh, he cost us about $600, he is intact, so if you find a nice little girl dog you could breed them and make money..." !!!!!!!! I didnt really ask a question... there is no doubt this dog is majorly aggressive. What I want to know is if someone is willing to help these people, I thought perhaps this was the place to ask for help The dog can not stay there and they dont have the money to board him out and have him trained. The dog is three years old and the behaviour has existed the entire time they have had him. They were not told of any prior behavioural problems. They have not taken him to the vet, he is too dangerous! Serious! I recommended my vet and that I would help and give discounted veterinary treatment. I left her to think about it. I told her her possible courses of action... - continue on as is with risk to people - have him desexed and seen to by a professional trainer, a risk still considering there will be no quick fix for this boy and children are still involved. - find a professional trainer willing to take him on - have him put to sleep I forgot to say that I was examining him for a physical reason he might be reacting... there appears to be none, he is in superb condition and would be very competitive at a dog show! To answer future questions on that... no I am not a vet! I have been a vet nurse. But that is why I recommended veterinary assessment. I am not going to take him on, I have a child and I have too many high maintainance dogs already.

A lady called me about a dog that she was given after the owners simply upped and moved to England. He is fully papered. I am not a fan of his breeder to say the least and most people arent. He is also intact. They were told he has a great personality and on the surface it seems like it. They have three children, 9, 11 and 14. He came from a place where he was left outside with another larger dog and never allowed inside or paid much attention at all. IMO he has never been taught how to interact with humans. I was called in to do a temperament assessment. This dog is the most agressive DOG OF ANY BREED I have ever seen, other than dogs trained to be so. He is completely dominant over everyone and has no problem with asserting his dominance with physical agression. While I was there I was mauled, but I was prepared for it and restrained him quickly. Anything he doesnt like (and that changes all the time) he will let them know by not just biting, but full on mauling. He is also fear agressive. To make matters worse, the entire family are afraid of him and when he growls or shows his teeth they withdraw immediately and are out of there quick smart. Their behaviour is telling him that his course of action is the right one to get what he wants. They confirm this, as he wasnt as bad when they first got him. They have bites all over them and they are SERIOUS bites for such a small dog. He draws blood and has left perminant damage. He mauled me because I tried to examine him. My assessment was that (knowing his lineage) it was genetic but largely environmental/learned. This dog would take a lot of work for the most experienced person to deal with, but these people are nervy and inexperienced. I think it is way beyond them. My advice was to have him euthanised as this dog is just way too dangerous to have around children and with all the beautiful rescues out there no rescue org has time to work on a liability. Anyone have advice? Anyone want to take on such a dog? Ari

I agree with poodlefan... show her until you find another little lady to show and breed from. I wouldnt show her for too long though... I think it sets bad precidence to show dogs with big faults... if they win. And dont leave it too long to have her desexed either.

I believe you can have x-rays to diagnose the exact degree. But really... no matter the breed a breeder should NOT breed a dog with Luxating Patella, especially when it is obviously genetic. A pup with luxating patella would no doubt have inherited it. It is so sad that this breeder thinks its OK to breed with LP!!! No wonder breeds go down so quickly. I am thoroughly disgusted It re-affirms why I gave up breeding. Injury based is different and I think the breeder should make full effort to prove it is injury related and not genetic.