MissMaddy

Please tell me we're not going to have a show vs working line debate again. No other correction actually worked for my girl initially where other dogs were concerned (or the 2 cats that used to be next door who teased her), you could give her a pretty strong correction and she'd act like you were an annoying fly, if you even got that much acknolwedgement when she really went into drive. Had I of put the e-collar on her and gone straight to high level distraction, she would have been somewhere up around 50-70 (which is why I did so much work with lower level distractions). Now she knows that by responding to the lower level stim, that it doesn't go any higher (which she DID need the first time we moved onto high distraction as there wasn't enough medium distraction for her- I did need to turn it up once to around 70 when she unexpectedly saw the next door neighbours cat she hated). Thank goodness I found dol when I did, as well as some decent trainers and behaviourists (after I had let her socialise in all the wrong ways as my earlier GSDs had been much lower drive), otherwise she never could have been off lead around other dogs she didn't know. But anyway, this is COMPLETELY off track, so back to the topic at hand. What are some strategies others use when running multiple dogs together in managing them and any possible conflicts?

Thanks kelpie, and I will be in touch with you soon to try and organise something if that's ok. Just have so much to organise, feels like it's never ending!

That's virtually the same result I had with my middle GSD with the Ecollar in similar circumstances What Dogtra are you using may I ask, is it the 127 level model??? Yep, it has the 127 levels with the blue backlight on the display. It was the best investment I've made, as I couldn't let my girl offlead with dogs I didn't know without it, as her recall was very poor. Now her recall, even without it, is so much more reliable (although she does need tuning up every now and then). I don't think that's what any one here has said and yet it seems to be taking that twist by some meandering of interpretation, I think. Having respect/leadership does assist with being able to manage the dogs. I agree Erny ;) That's my thinking, as I know of people who run multiple dogs together of the same and different sexes and ages, without any issues because of how they manage them. I know of one in particular who runs something like 10+ (possibly 20) GSDs together overseas, feeds them together, gives them bones together, and never an issue. I'm not that ambitious, as mine aren't even run together unsupervised, but I do believe that these girls have the right temperaments to get along if managed together (this was why I took the rotty girl on, as I felt she had the right temperament to fit in with my first 2).

Ok, so just to make things clear. There has NOT been a fight between these 2 bitches, and since writing this post and enforcing stronger boundaries (plus bringing the e-collar back into use with the GSD bitch who knows what it is and how it works), the behaviour I was worried about has almost disappeared. The GSD bitch does have insecurities with other dogs, having been unfairly dominated by 1-2 dogs at a crucial age, so the e-collar has been brilliant to distract her and call her back when she's not so sure if she acts defensive (which she only does with dogs she doesn't know) or starts to see another dog running that puts her into prey drive, in which the e-collar was a godsend. I AM NOT using it as high levels (in fact her working level is 7 on a dogtra) as there was never any serious posturing, and the rotty has been reminded by the stronger boundaries that she is the submissive puppy and there's no challenging that. Neither bitch is confrontational by nature, and the rotty was on of the more submissive in the litter. The GSD is also not dominant or dog agressive, and has never been one to start fights or get involved in stuff like that. Now I feel we're at the stage that I can hopefully manage them so that a fight never even looks close. I will be going to see someone, and four paws was who I was thinking as they're a much shorter drive than anyone else. Either that, or I'll do a video consult with Steve. Having just had Christmas, etc, and been on night shift, I haven't been able to do anything as yet, and I'm sure some of my posts haven't made a whole lot of sense (like this one)!

Thanks for the replies here guys, they've been very helpful (and please keep them coming!). Aiden, yes I am aware of the different methods of training with the e-collar. My bitch is trained with the negative reinforcement method, whereby she knows how to turn the collar off (obeying a command), which I did through Steve (K9pro) on here. I have used it on her around other dogs before, and I don't use it as a punishment tool. I was planning on doing the same with both the other 2 dogs (the male as well), starting like I did with the GSD bitch, at as little distraction as possible, then working up until they are collar savvy, and realise they can switch it off even under high distraction (e.g. running together). These dogs are never together unless supervised (including the male), and the rules have become a lot tougher since I started worrying about the bitches together. Interestingly enough, while I was watching the other day, the rotty bitch yelped while near the GSD bitch (they actually weren't really interacting, the GSD was sniffing something else), and then got wary of her (I think the GSD stood on her foot or something, as there was no correction unless it was a VERY subtle one). She's now become the submissive, playful puppy she's been since she came here, and there has been no more of the behaviour I was worried about. I am, however, a lot tougher on their interactions, rough play is no longer tolerated, and I expect them to all give each other space and not be in each other's faces, which is what seems to annoy the GSD bitch. I do have help coming, as the rotty's breeder is herself very experienced in dog training and dog behaviour, so I will be getting a visit from her on the weekend, and will be trying to determine the best person to go to elsewhere from there. I am concerned, though, that taking them out of their home environment would probably change their behaviour in general and towards one another, so may not be particularly worthwhile doing.

Thank you for the replies. I appreciate them all, and was not expecting purely positve ones. I wrote this post for some honest, frank, and constructive advice. I admit that I must be falling down as a leader somewhere, and would like to fix that, so any suggestions are welcome. I think I have been misunderstood a little, however. When I say "who sits where" I mean I don't care if the younger bitch was to become above the older bitch in dominance, not who physcially sits in what spot in the lounge room. My point is, there is no place for a big bitch fight in this house and pack. I have recently become a lot tougher when they're together, and have put boundaries on play time and how rough things are allowed to get. I have done TOT with their food, although not so much with the younger bitch, but she will start/stop eating when told, and is quite submissive to me. She has been mistreated, so I've worked hard to ensure she has very clear boundaries, whilst also building her trust in me. I probably don't adhere to NILIF closely enough, so I will definitely make sure I put this into practice a lot more strictly. I have done e-collar training with my GSD bitch, and will be getting it back out again and using it. I have been offered the use of another one, and would like to do so with the rotty bitch, but I worry that she may be a little young at 8 months old. I am fully aware of the horror and damage possible from a bitch fight, and don't want to have to live through that, and that is why I want to fix this NOW, when I see the early warning signs that things may not be harmonious unless I do something quickly. I'm already starting to run the bitches separately with my boy in times of high arousal, and it has definitely helped reduce the stress levels. Once I figure out who I'll be going to help for, I will do so asap, as I'd rather spend a few hundred now, than thousands down the track in surgeries, etc.

Ok, so I thought I was doing pretty well, but my dogs have given me the impression I'm not doing as well as I thought. I have recently added a rottie bitch to my existing 2 GSDs (over a month ago), so I now have 3 dogs; a 4yo GSD bitch, a 1yo GSD male and an 8 month old rottie bitch. All of them are entire as I show. The bitches have started showing me signs that a fight may happen in the future, and I want to make sure it doesn't happen, EVER! I'm wanting some tips to re-establish myself as the one who says who can do what and when, and it's not one of them! I already make sure the GSD bitch comes in through doorways first (after me of course), eats first, etc, as she is currently the one who is the boss, however she's no a truly dominant bitch, so this may change. I honestly don't care who sits where, but I don't want fights over it, as I control the resources around here, so a fight will not change that. I'm near Bendigo, so we have a severe shortage of qualified behaviourists. I'll probably be driving to see one shortly, but I'm not sure the same behaviour would show away from home. Until then, what are some little things I can do to make sure they know I say what goes? As I said, I thought I was, but the dogs are telling me otherwise.

Ironically, my female GSD, who I used to take to offlead parks regularly as a puppy, developed the habit of rushing up to dogs with hackles up (unsure, she didn't ever attack, and I stopped it very quickly) because of the dog park, and the other dogs she met there. Although she is now trained enough to take, I don't take her as I find them just too stressful (and I now live on 12 acres so they self exercise). In the majority of them, the people don't read the bit about "under reasonable control". My younger 2 dogs (an entire male GSD and female rotty), are both great with other dogs, and I would purposely avoid dog parks with them, as the idea of getting rushed (or attacked) I just don't want to deal with (and given the rotty's age, I imagine a bad experience could be very damaging). The ones I'd go to near my mum's have big regular groups, so the dogs develop a pack, and the people don't give a stuff if their dogs are rude, rush, hump yours, or have no recall. Neither of my younger dogs have ever been to an offlead park (aside from KCC park with known dogs), and they are the most balanced, easy to manage dogs with others.

I would say yes, definitely. My GSD girl (now nearly 4) was quite intollerant of younger dogs jumping on her, and was quite dog obsessed when I took her out. Now I have a male GSD, and she's become a LOT more tollerant to younger dogs jumping on her, and although she gets excited when we go out and there are other dogs, she gets over it VERY quickly. I now also have an 8 month rotty, will be interesting to see how much difference that makes to her when interacting with other dogs. She hasn't matured at all though! At 4 she's still just as much of a puppy as the other 2, and plays with them just as much as they play with her.

I have told Flaves who the breeder is also, as she is a friend of theirs, hope that is ok? To anyone wondering, they ARE a registered, responsible breeder, so the puppy must be 8 weeks, they wouldn't allow one to go any younger. And they are very helpful and knowledgable too. Edited for grammar

Kashing, the breeder should have given you some info on walking your pup. No more than 5 mins of structured on lead walking (really just lead training) up to 6 months, up to 10 mins until 12 months. This is an article put out by the club after research on hip/elbow dysplasia. Free running is fine, but limit running with older dogs/puppies as the puppy will try and keep up despite being tired. With the other puppy, it's YOUR job to teach them both what is and isn't acceptable in playing and how rough they get. Neither are old enough to set boundaries, and they could both hurt each other in different ways if you're not careful. Most of the puppy schools I contacted when my 4yo girl was a puppy required at least 2 vaccinations, and wouldn't allow puppies any younger (didn't help she was born Christmas eve, so most were booked up too). The german shepher club allow from 8 weeks. Sorry, I don't live in WA so have no idea of clubs, but contact the breeders, they are very helpful and knowledgable people. It's up to you if he sleeps in your room or not. Mine do, but are also happy enough to sleep in their crates in another room. Until he's used to you guys, he will cry, and you just need to ignore it or you'll train him now to be a sooky big dog who cries and barks if he doesn't get what he wants. When he's inside, keep him near you so you can see when he needs to go to the toilet, so it doesn't become a habit. Crates are great for helping with toilet training, as they don't like to toilet in there if taken out frequently enough. If your puppy is genuinely having trouble standing, beyond normal puppy looseness and big paw unco-ordination, you need to go back to the vet and see if they can find out what's wrong!!! It is NOT normal for a GSD puppy to not be able to stand. It is, however, normal for them to be very floppy, loose, and unco-ordinated when they run until they grow into those big joints and limbs!

Good luck with him Kashing, I hope you get your discipline issues sorted through puppy school (and further obedience hopefully, is there a german shepherd club near you, as most vets don't allow pups til 16 weeks when they're quite big already). He is very cute!! Just out of interest, what's his breeding/breeder?

Yep, an 8 week old puppy will not be able to keep up with an older puppy at all, especially with the emotional stress of leaving his litter mates and mum, and moving to a new home. How is the training going with the maltese? I hope you've been able to find a good training school to help sort out the issues you were having with the older pup.

Why would weeing in the gutters be ok? That's storm water, and supposed to be relatively clean!

My rotty girl was hilarious when she first figured out she could actually leave the safety of the shallows in the dam! She'd go to bite the water she splashed up, then her butt would sink, so she'd start panicing and splashing with her front legs, only making it worse! Now she knows to keep her butt up. She still uses her tail as a rudder though, it's kinda funny! Her tail appears out of the water every now and then like she's steering! My male GSD has swam from day 1, although he never just wades in, he always does a big leap and then swims. My female GSD, however, just watches from the shallows, going in deeper and deeper, but not venturing out enough to have to swim.

Oh gosh, hope my guys don't decide to vomit theirs up inside! Unfortunately it won't end with these ones I've dug up a couple of spots I saw them laying and couldn't see any eggs, but given how many spots they've laid I'm sure there's a few there. So we get to relive it all again when the eggs hatch, even if these ones have been blown south.

Don't spray - just invite lots of Dally over for a feast! :rofl: The 3 dogs I already have were doing their best! Especially the female GSD, she always chases them, but them being stuck on the ground laying is even more fun!

Ok, so they weren't that bad here, now the bastards have started laying! Not quite sure where I stand with spraying though, as I'm renting and the website says landowners are to spray, etc.

Oh my gosh, YUK!!! They're getting worse here, still not that bad though. I'm sure it'll happen though.

Oh wow Perrin, looks like you have a few locuts there! Which side of Bendigo are you? I'm just out of Marong and I can't say I've seen them quite that condensed. My female GSD likes chasing them and she catches them just like she catches bees! I just wish they'd hurry up and get blown out to sea.

Call Steve at K9pro. He has experience in these sort of things and can help you in the right way to procede.

What sort of period are you looking at a foster home for? I could possibly help if dog social (and preferably male), but would just need to get a double gate panel to split my double run.

Given that it's illegal to sell, breed or rehome any pit bull or cross in most states, wouldn't that mean that the council would be able to seize the puppy if they believe it to be pitbul (or x) and pts, and the owner (and breeder if found) will then face fines, etc? So as your sister's friend can not prove otherwise, as it is 3/4 pitbull, he could himself get in trouble too. The fact that BSL laws are pointless and stupid makes no difference unfortunately. I'm sure someone with better knowledge of BSL will come in here, but maybe also put this in the BSL subforum.

Was going to say this. My guys can get the dry, white stools after having had bones, and every now and then can get a little constipated if I give them too much. Instead of a whole bone, I split say lamp flaps in 2-3. My rotty girl is on the osopure, the other 2 are on canidae currently, but have been on maximal (and will probably go back to it as I can get it cheaper and they're no different on the canidae), and I've had no issues with constipation unless giving them bones, and it doesn't seem to matter what dry they're on.

Loving a pup very much is a good reason to teach it not to bite or nip inappropriately. Follow the link that Persephone gave you, it has good instructions and there is nothing Dr Dunbar suggests that should cause your friend any concern at all. It is not harsh or violent at all, very gentle - but you both need to be consistent. I have a high-drive GSD from working lines and she adores both of my cats. One of the cats plays with her, the other cat has trained her to stand perfectly still while she weaves in and out of her legs, purring. I agree, and meant to say exactly what you did! My 3 large dogs are all good with my cat, and love it when he decides to play with them! Having high prey drive, they all needed to be trained to not chase him outside if he runs, but he also knows if he stands still they'll do no more than stick their big, annoying noses in his face! LizT the problem I would think is that don't most puppy schools insist on puppies having had their 12 week vaccination at least before going to puppy school? The GSD club still hold puppy classes over the Christmas period despite most clubs breaking up, and will allow puppies that have had their first vaccinations, and some of their clubs will also allow other breeds in just the early puppy class. Kashing, it would probably be a good idea to get involved with the GSD club before getting your puppy. Does the breeder you're getting the puppy from know you haven't own a working breed before (or any breed since your childhood), so they need to ensure you get a nice, laid back, easy going puppy?