Tapferhund

Erm.. there is? :D I guess that depends very much on what you consider to be evidence and what exactly your beliefs are. Personally, I don't believe anything has a soul but that doesn't mean things can't be valued still for what they do have. You don't have to believe in the christian god (or any god, really) to treat animals with the same respect you'd show your fellow man. Of course, if you mean "soul" in the non-religious sense (ie, a distinct personality, the ability to feel and understand what happens around it, etc), almost every type of animal could be said to have a soul. There are a fair few books out there on the subject ...all with dozens of wonderful stories about peoples pets and the special connections they had that still continued after their pet had died....they experiencing affirmations of their beloved pets still being around them. There are also books with many stories from people who have had near death experiences. I also have a friend who, in her early life, died for a short time during an operation. She now says she does not fear death at all because of what she experienced at the time she 'died'

Ahh, ok. I don't believe in anything going to live on, but can accept that many do. I think more of the physical changes that occur and that is why they look different. I also believe that the only thing that lives on is memories of those who knew the living person or animal. I guess that is why I can't see the significance, perosnally, of dog's having souls. I feel very sad for you Anne :D

I couldn't agree more ILBB and today I sadly did just that while holding my darling 17 year old Mini Foxie, my soul mate Cricket in my arms when she died RIP my darling girl :D

;) Well if what I read about chickens is true....'satans henchmen' were once T-Rex's !

Yes.....sad lot aren't they ! What they fail to see is life itself , all animals and this beautiful planet are miracles. Gosh........we're getting deep aren't we

Ohh I don't know Cordelia? I think there is enough documentation to prove the existance of God and souls in animals. Proof through miracles , unusual happenings as well as affirmations etc. that have happened around the world. There are some great books out there on the subject of animals and affirmations their owners have experienced after their pet has died.

I would add dolphins and elephants as well.

Exactly ! I also think it is typical human arrogance to say animals don't have souls.

Yes it's a hard one Dobesrock. I understand what you're trying to say.

This topic probably has been done before (?) but after reading a comment in another topic that dogs don't have souls and rather than commenting in that topic I thought I would start another on the subject. I personally very much believe , that like we human animals , dogs and other animals DO have souls!!! It annoys me so much to hear people say otherwise. How would they know? Have they been dead to prove otherwise? The mere fact dogs live , give love and so much pleasure to their owners....tells me they have just as much a soul as we do.......and I am sure there are many Dolers like myself, who, after losing a beloved dog, have experienced affirmations of some kind that their beloved dog is with them in some way.

"We don't teach people that dogs are 'complicated beings' either so i am not sure where that comes from." Hi Cosmolo, I never said that Cosmolo ! What I said was... "and they have brought with them the idea that dogs are complicated beings.".....meaning they (seem to ) give the "impression" all dogs are complicated. Bad trainers can do alot of damage and good trainers can save alot of heartache. Now that I agree with !!

I understand what you are saying Huski.

IMO there is NO way that most standard obedience clubs could come even close to the quality of training you'd get from a place like Underdog. Cost is not always indicative of quality, that's true, there are plenty of places that will rip you off but there are also places that charge very little for classes and you get what you pay for. Tapferhund, unless you've done classes with Underdog I fail to see how you could possibly know if it's a "rip off" or not. To the OP, I would personally be inclined pay a bit more for a GOOD training class than a standard obedience club, keeping in mind too that obedience clubs are normally run by volunteer instructors who will rarely have the specialised training and qualifications and experience that the trainers who run classes like Underdog have. Class sizes will also be larger at obedience clubs than they are at private training places. Huski six of one half a dozen of another.....BOTH groups have good and bad , experienced and not so experienced instructors. For example, when I was with ADT while doing the NDTF course, some of the instructors were good while others were far from it...no different to normal obedience clubs where there are some fantastic experienced instructors and others who leave a lot to be desired. The thing that annoys me though with the so called 'more experienced' expensive privately owned organizations that seemed to have popped up in various places in recent times is that they are business driven to make money and they have brought with them (to the gullible public) the idea that dogs are complicated beings and that dog owners can only be helped with their 'complicated being' at their organizations under the guidance of their instructors and behaviourists .........and that's wrong on so many levels. Dogs are not complicated at all...they just need us to understand them from the dogs point of view as you know ...and it shouldn't have to cost someone $400 ?$600 $1000? to find that out....and that's where it becomes a rip off. IMO and like everything else in this country....its just become a big money making concern Now to put my suit on

I'd recommend Underdog. I haven't done their obedience classes but have done several workshops with them and they are very good trainers and very friendly and helpful as well. If you are going to an obedience club I'd strongly recommend you go and have a look at the class you would be in first. See what equipment they use, whether they use food, etc. It would also be worth considering a couple of private lessons if you haven't done any dog training before as it would be easier to get started with a pup in a less distracting environment than a class with other excitable puppies. Hope you have fun with your pup. IT WOULD WANT TO BE good in trainers, friendly and helpful at those prices! That's as bad as ADT was and imo a rip off. You can get just as much help by good trainers at normal obedience clubs such as ESODC , Croydon obedience dog club or Knox obedience dog club. Trouble is people think because it costs more then it must be better and this is just not so. Su888.......go and have a look at several clubs,including underdog if you like.... talk to the instructors, watch the classes and then decide on whats best for you and your dog.

Prong Collars....best training collar in the world IMO. Its just a pity Australian authorities think they know better than the rest of the world in regard to these collars.

KOOLIE !

Echo you beat me to it Good news isn't it everyone! Thanks GSDCA !!!

EXACTLY !

Sorry readysetgo ....but stuff their professionalism. These mongrels are going to take great delight in killing as many dogs as they can....like trophies......because they can. And I can well imagine they won't be the only rangers who will abuse their power in such a way. I would say there would be dozens of municipalities with kill happy rangers looking for every dog they can find.

I would not only report it to the council I would be going to the local paper and telling them what you heard and also making a complaint to the DPI who gave this "abuse of power" to councils and their fool rangers. This sort of thing needs to be exposed.

Check out the GSDCQ http://www.gsdcqld.org.au/ and http://www.gsdcqld.org.au/GSDCQLD%20Puppie...0for%20sale.htm

Sorry but after 35 years living and breathing dogs, I do not agree with you or others with similar views as yours. Yes dogs DO respond to good leadership,meeting of needs and affection, but dogs, some more than others ...DO have strong feelings of love and show this love when they have a special connection with their owner.

Okay then..tell us....has anyone given thought as to what's going to happen to these pups if the pet shop doesn't sell them due to all your complaints? I hope they are not going to be taken out the back and PTS and chucked in the bin.

That's terrific TrinaJ and yes, please let us know how the meeting goes.