WoofnHoof

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I think one of the things that gets me confused about this particular field of research is that all of these follow on studies are based on the results of a survey of what Australian's 'say' they want in a dog, whereas a far more accurate assessment of what people really want in a dog would be to measure the traits present in those dogs which have gone the distance, as in lived the full term of their natural lives with their owners as opposed to dogs which were purchased and then gotten rid of. As greytmate (I think it was greytmate the thread is too long for me to find the post) said just because people say they want a good sense of humor in a partner what constitutes a good sense of humor is actually extremely variable, so too would someone's perception of amicability differ. Not only that people say they want a low drive dog but a lot of people come on here wanting a dog that will fetch etc and there needs to be a certain amount of drive in the dog for that as well as other doggy activities, training a low drive dog I think is quite difficult because the tools with which you can motivate them are few. (not speaking as a dog trainer here though just my perception maybe some trainers here can correct me) I really think that there needs to be further exploration into this concept of 'what Australian's want in a dog' because it's not just about what they say they want it's also about what they need and what they can realistically expect from a living breathing sentient creature.

We obviously move in different circles I don't know many people with kids anyway, most people that know me know I'm not that comfortable around kids if I'm not comfortable with someone's kids I generally don't invite them, not that I get many visitors out here anyway

Good to hear

Not everyone sees it that way. My boys no longer a man to some. See that's a completely alien concept to me, the dog doesn't care, why should anyone else? My dogs are males (note not men that is a human version of a male) they have doodles I am pretty sure they don't care if someone wants to project some kind of anthropomorphic feeling of male inadequacy onto them, they don't need balls for 99.9% of their daily activities (the other 0.1% is spent licking themselves and they do well enough without lol). TBH I think that kind of mentality is potentially very harmful and not just relating to dogs, maybe you should ask your mates if they had to have a cancerous testicle removed would they like it if other blokes thought less of them? Would they risk their health and keep said nut because of some perception that without a full set they are somehow not a man? There are many men who have had to deal with this sort of thing and I think it is important to look at the deeper implications of this kind of thing because a lot of men not only avoid getting medical help for this sort of thing, but can also suffer depression because of the fact that these beliefs are quite ingrained and anything that can be done to combat them is a good thing IMO. Be proud of your desexed male dog I'm sure he is proud of you

Ugh you clearly need new friends, anyone who carries on like that about a responsible dog owner's decision is a waste of space.

You can feel however you want about kids but if I don't want other people's kids coming over I have just as much right to say so as if I didn't want other people's dogs coming over. The situations are actually quite comparable.

I'm having trouble envisioning a study that would be deemed acceptable by some here TBH. I don't really see what is the big deal with finding a genetic basis for temperament, isn't that what breed standards are implying when they specify certain temperaments for certain breeds? Most of the selling points here for purebred dogs include the fact that temperament is much more predictable in pure breds, less of a mixed bag and less chance of a temperament which deviates from the standard so it makes sense that research into the genetic basis of temperament would support the anecdotal evidence that it is able to be accurately selected for.

Hooray no more dog research.

Hi everyone, Since I'm incredibly useles at using the search function here I thought I'd ask what everyone's experiences and managment with mild heart murmurs are. Took my pair to the vet today for their vaccs and checkup and the vet there reckons my 6 y/o chi has a mild heart murmur, she got another vet to check as well. She said to watch his exercise capabilities and monitor breathing etc and he does need to lose a bit of weight, other than that nothing to panic about. So just wanted to know how everyone else manages this and what sorts of things to look out for in addition to the stuff the vet has mentioned. Thanks

Uninvited dogs I can handle, it's uninvited kids I have trouble with...

Last thing I knew Pauline Bennett was a breeder of Australian Shepherds. It appears that she is even has a profile here on dogz! Imagine that! http://www.dogzonline.com.au/breeds/member.asp?name=HEVNSENT

Fair enough. It still doesn't mention pure bred dogs or breeders. Not to worry, I am not participating, but may write a bumbling letter of concern to the PhD candidate anyway. Cool, you may as well they might be able to clarify what the aims directly relate to and what the potential implications might be for breeders.

It's probably run through the psychology department because Pauline is a neuroscientist they did the same thing with the animal welfare course through monash it was run through the phsycology department because that's the department the supervisor was associated with, animal welfare tends to straddle the biology and the physchology disciplines so it's not surprising that it's come under that.

Our blue girl has no health issues? I don't know Eileen I was just responding to the above quote, I'm glad your girl doesn't have any issues

From memory the anthrozoology group is heavily involved in the development of 'ideal' characteristics based on what Australians 'say' they want in a dog, personally I'm on the fence about the concept of the 'perfect' dog for the 'average Australian' because what people say they want in a dog and what they actually want in a dog are often very different, for example people say they want a short coat non barking dog but they will purchase a dog often based on appearance because lets face it a breed might be totally suitable on paper but if you think it's ugly you aren't going to buy it are you? I don't know but I'm not a psychologist so I don't really have all the details to mind, it has been suggested to me that this sort of research is aimed at promoting good temperaments within the existing breeds but some of the temperament traits people want aren't necessarily consistent with those found some breeds so it's a bit difficult to say that this type of research isn't going to have a detrimental effect on some breeds.

I know there are plenty in the arabs and QHs but it's taking a bit longer in the warmbloods, that's the impression I'm getting anyway. But yeah if there are associated health problems in the staffords then it's a different issue than just colour preference.

I see it as similar to the dilutes in horses, a lot of people will charge more because it's a dilute and the cost isn't consistent with the quality of the animal, but there are people trying to improve the quality of the dilutes and in some breeds they are becoming extremely competitive. It isn't easy I am trying to breed a nice dilute for myself because I like the colour I know the quality isn't going to be world-beating but I also chose the stallion carefully so that the progeny wont be crap even if it isn't a dilute. Breeding for colour isn't necessarily bad some people like certain colours but you need to try and bring the quality in as well so that the quality of the dilutes comes up as well. It is difficult when the dilutes are regarded as inferior simply because they haven't been bred for previously and so of course you aren't starting with world-beating stock you have to try and improve what you have. I think it is a fact of life that people will pay more for the colour they prefer and colour preferences will always change this happens in the ring as well, when I got my chestnut with bling they were all the rage then when I started showing it was all about the browns and blacks

A split lip from a fall is very common in toddlers, happens quite a lot actually they fall on their face and a tooth goes through the lip, cheek or gum. I've seen that many toddlers do it I'd put it at higher odds of causing that sort of injury than a dog bite, dog bites generally result in puncture wounds rather than cuts.

I don't think animals perceive things like this the way we do, their ability to cope with these things is more directly related to how significantly it impacts them in the present, as they get used to the change in circumstances they do as best they can with what they have. Humans tend to attatch more meaning to things than animals do, a lost leg to a human can mean a lot of things (eg sense of self, the perception of what the future will be like, the effect of how others perceive them and so on) whereas to a dog it just means it has to find a way of getting around on 3 legs. The dog doesn't think of how difficult things will be in the future, or how much easier things were in the past, they just think of the best way to do something in the now. While they are attempting to adjust it can be hard on them but once they have a solution/improvement they seem quite happy.

I know DPI hasn't disappeared (thank god for that since I work there lol), but the name is changing and they are in the process of figuring out what that name will be - the problem is that with name changes comes a great deal of uncertaintly in the public as to what the new department incorporates particularly when employees are told to no longer refer to themselves as DPI&F (I think we are allowed to put QLd Primary Industries & Fisheries in the transition stage). IMO the state governments are far more unstable than federal government I suppose state is better than nothing though.

Lol Mita the problem with that is that QLD no longer has a department of primary industries, it's very up in the air as to what it's going to be called but now it comes under the Department of employment, economic development and innovation, people are finding it hard enough to fit primary industries into that let alone incorporating pets as well. Personally I think it should be a federal department with state branches because as we see with DPI and DEEDI you've only got to have some pollie feel the need to 'reinvent the wheel' and it throws everything into turmoil

It would be good if we had a united domestic animal group to represent owners, something unconnected to wildlife groups but incorporating all uses of domestic animals including livestock and pets. We found this necessary when EI hit there was no one to represent pleasure and performance horse owners, we were completely ignored by policy makers and ministers due to the fragmented nature and while economically signficant we couldn't produce the figures to show the extent of the financial damage which was being incurred by almost all horse owners.

So how does one go about making animal welfare regulation and enforcement solely a government responsibility? Given the tendency for government to release themselves of responsibility wherever possible, how can we force them to broaden their responsibilities in animal welfare?

I'd like to do it on my chi find out how much chi there is, too poor though . The hard part with true bitzas is that they might have a whole chunk of something which makes them look a certain 'breed' but that chunk of DNA may not contain any of the known markers, whereas a tiny bit of another breed which may be way back might contain the marker for that breed so you will get a funny looking result but the science is still valid (regardless of whether it is just a novelty anyway). Not only that because of the way the genes interact to change the way the dog looks as soon as you move away from selected traits (as in pure breds) you get a dog that looks nothing like either parent but may look something entirely different. Before my chi lost his nuts he got to my sister's shih tsu x maltese and the resulting pups all came out looking like something different, I still see one and as an adult it has the weirdest conformation and the colouring is nothing like either parent, looks nothing like any of the contributing breeds, so a few markers is not necessarily going to coincide with the dog in front of you, what it will do is add to the database and hopefully if enough people do it there may be more siginficant results come through. But due to the high variance you would need a LOT of results!