WoofnHoof

I don't know much about the cat world but I do remember reading somewhere that there are classes at shows for crosses. There are at horse shows for specific crosses or partbreds.

I don't agree that 'much' of the scientific community think that crossbreeding makes for healthier dogs, there have been a number of studies that suggested that an infusion of other breeds to widen the gene pools of certain at risk breeds would be worthy of consideration but I don't know of any studies which suggest crossbreeding in the broadest sense is desirable, Paul McGreevy may have his own barrow to push but he is only one scientist out of many. The fact that studies find the flaws in purebred dogs is because flaws do exist and the purebred dog is the most feasible to study, people who have an interest in breeding crosses are going to take advantage of the fact that it is much more difficult to collect generational data on crossbred dogs and therefore reliable data is much harder to find, at the end of the day it's all about PR the purebred dog world isn't as competitive in the market because they have allowed others to use this data with little to no effective rebuttal. Personally I think there should be a united front for all dog breeders be they crosses, pure, sporting, working, show etc so that the shoddys can be left out in the cold, at the moment the dog fraternity is way too fragmented, there is little interaction and therefore little strength as a whole, if all dog bodies could be united under the one banner it would be easier to enact codes of practice that lift the standards for everyone, therefore creating a clearer divide between those who are doing it well and those who aren't and a complete governing body for those with an interest in the health and welfare of dogs.

There was a similar situation in logan and ipswich areas a while back with huskies and mals being targeted apparently they wanted the thicker fur so that they lasted longer :D Having a sibe and a chi it is something I get really worried about :D

The problem there is that the concept of rights and the concept of welfare are two very different things, more and more someone's perception of their 'right to breed' will clash with someone else's perception of the right of animals to have 'good welfare', not to mention the concept of 'animal rights' which of course is even murkier. I think the welfare of the animals should always take precedence over someone's right to breed them, however defining 'welfare' and setting boundaries is the difficult part, I do think the boundaries need to be set and will be set and it is only a matter of the when and the how.

I don't really have strong opinions either way, I've had a bitsa as have a lot of people and she was the healthiest dog we've ever had. Having said that I wouldn't say crosses or bitsas are healthier than pures it's much more of a lottery. From an ethical standpoint it's not really acceptable to have a 'luck of the draw' approach to breeding animals because the pups who draw the short straw are likely to end up in pounds or worse, if you were prepared to take responsibility for those unlucky pups and ensure they have a good life as well then perhaps the ethical implications could be negated - it's a big ask but then again we expect ethical breeders to take back any pups that have come onto hard times as well so it's a really interesting question. The other aspect is when dogs of extremely different morphology and temperament are bred and the results can also impact on welfare, case in point a number of years ago my little chi who hadn't had the chop at that stage got to my sisters' shih-tsu x maltese and the resulting pups were of course very cute as all pups are and my sister saw $$$ she reluctantly let me have one and I gave it to my friends so I was able to see it grow up and keep track of her. She turned into a very strange looking little dog cute in her own way but she actually has a really badly protruding lower jaw which made it difficult for her to eat and she has a very fearful temperament so in her case she drew the very short straw and is lucky that my friends are sympathetic to her special needs. How many of her problems are due to the cross and how many are due to the poor quality of the parents is another question which would be interesting to pursue, it would be interesting to see the results of crosses which were carefully chosen to compliment each other. Such crosses are common in horses where it is a lot easier to find complimentary breeds to cross, although some people still insist on crossing very different breeds which is a welfare issue there as well.

Lol the only time my sibe has ever jumped on anyone was when cosmolo visited! Of all the people he has met he has to jump up on the dog trainer

Thanks yes he had a lot of fun running around it will be off limits when the foal comes so he may as well enjoy it for now. I usually don't let him into the water (feed bucket doubling as water trough at the moment) because he gets ear infections at the drop of a hat but as you can see he is a huge fan of lying in the water

Foaling paddock doubled as an offlead yard And a dip in the water bucket at the end ;)

Some of the things other people consider behaviour problems I just see as behaviours, I've done little to curb them so I can't really call them a problem can I? ;) The only behaviour I've actively tried to alter is the offlead reliability and I found that the task was way too consuming so I redefined my idea of what 'good behaviour' is, he is very well behaved for a perfectly normal sibe with limited training

Thankfully no cats at the vets I go to, my sibe goes straight into prey drive when he spots one.

Lol definetly harder than it looks, luckily my husky's sledding instincts are pretty good so once he's 'on the trail' he just toddles along in front at a nice trot most of the time, having said that there are still frequent stops and the odd moment of suddenly heading in the opposite direction. My chi gets left at home though he's a terd and refuses to run on the lead even though he is perfectly capable of keeping up he wants to be off the lead but he's too unreliable off lead.

I can't watch the video I'm at work but a friend of mine did some research on the dog meat trade in China and it's pretty horrific there are a multitude of welfare issues at play.

That was the funny thing about the young vet who looked at my liver shunt boy, because the knowledge was fresh in her head and she hadn't seen umpteen numbers of young dogs that had eaten something dodgy she picked up on the actual problem and if the senior vets had taken her a bit more seriously perhaps the suffering my boy went through before his actual diagnosis could have been avoided. There is a very delicate balance between having experience and also being open to the possibility of a rarer condition and so I think it is important for the more senior vets to be aware of the danger of complacency as well. The senior vets also ignored my requests for them to consult with a canine internal medicine specialist regarding my boy and so further delayed his diagnosis.

I agree I'd love to see an expo integrated with some of the major shows and trials that would be great

Yep I've also heard that there is shortage of large animal vets it's a real shame and seperating the two areas would be a good step forward in addressing this shortage, personally I would love to become a large animal vet but I can see why it's less desirable it can be very dangerous, more travelling etc. It's funny I did a postgrad animal welfare course a while back and I was told that it is only recently that welfare and ethics has actually been introduced into the vet courses (there were several vets doing the course I was doing) so I found that really interesting.

It's probably easier to put the dog door in the wooden door and cut a hole in the screen door, I found it was harder to get dog doors to fit screen doors they are around but they are dearer whereas you can easily get one for a wooden door from bunnings. I am renting I just buy a second hand screen door and cut a hole in it I find a curtain or blanket over the door helps to keep the chill out in winter and the heat out in summer.

Funnily enough I've had better experiences with some younger vets I've found them to be a bit more receptive to the 'out of the box' diagnoses, the younger vet who looked at my liver shunt boy actually suspected a shunt initially but was overruled by the senior vets who just assumed that my boy had eaten something that didn't agree with him (even though symptoms were classic shunt symptoms). Similarly when my horse was sick a few times the older vet refused to listen to me when I said I suspected that his illnesses were linked whereas the younger vets were less skeptical (at least to my face lol). Conversly I've found a lot of older vets who are specialists in their field to be absolutely brilliant so I guess there is a balance between being young and open minded and older and having the breadth of experience without falling into the trap of complacency which can cause them to misdiagnose. ETA I agree that fees are a necessary evil many people balk at the cost of the shunt surgery but considering the complexity of the task, the skill level of the surgeon and the high level of care required post op it was actually very good.

Why is everyone assuming that anyone wants to change the current breeds, maybe some people want to use dogs from the existing breeds to create new ones, as people have done for many years and still continue to do in the case of developing breeds. If you want to start a new breed you don't go all the way back to wolves do you, no you start with the types of dog which are closest to what you want to achieve.

So because some of the presenters breed crosses that automatically means that the whole seminar is going to be pushing crossbreds even though at least one of the other presenters is a breeder of purebreds?

From the ANKC website: But hey what do I know I'm just a pet owner. Careful Jed your true colours are showing.

The only major international org I could find was the FCI who don't appear to have conferences but they did refer to a conference being held in Warsaw in a couple of weeks link which looks quite interesting, although the FCI was keen to point out it's nothing to do with them it's some other org called Federación Canina Internacional I vote lappiemum to be the organiser of the first ever international conference/seminar to be held in Australia on dog breeding stuff!

Is there an international canine org? I know a lot of conferences are held by international organisations there was one last year here in Australia by the international society for equitation science it would be useful if there were a similar organisation which could host a conference on ethical dog breeding?

Yep they can get the ball rolling all conferences need sponsors it's not just the organisers who fund it, I went to an animal welfare conference partly sponsored by the national egg producers group, they also had a speaker there so it doesn't even have to be an animal welfare group as such, any sponsors with a financial interest in the target group should be involved. If the ANKC or MDBA or someone wanted to hold a conference they could seek sponsorship from dog food companies etc to fund the cause the same way any other event seeks corporate sponsorship. Then they can invite whatever speakers they like to present on the topic My point re this seminar is that if the ANKC or similar were on the committee for the AWSC then perhaps they might have had some input as to who would be invited to speak, it's no doubt too late for this one but it's something to keep in mind, the more noticable an organisation or representative is the more likley they will get invited places ETA since Animals Australia and the RSPCA are on the panel for the AWSC I don't see why the ANKC couldn't ask to be put on it, doesn't cost anything to ask.

How do you know that? As I understand it, Dr Higgins is the spokesperson for Dogs NSW. This seminar is in Victoria. You do understand that nearly all ANKC members volunteer their time don't you? Since all the press releases I've read had Dr Higgins as the PR rep for the ANKC it's on their website from memory, didn't they say they had employed him specifically to counter the fallout from PDE? Most committees do consist of volunteers, hell most of the people in PETA are volunteers doesn't seem to stop them, you just need a touch of zealoutry which of course DOL has in spades Anyway I'll have to continue this later I'm supposed to be working

You've checked that there was actually a call for papers? That's the protocol for a conference. Because conferences want a wide offering in research directions, as well as depth re specific issues. This Monash activity is a seminar. Seminars are in-house, with staff featuring (as in this case) plus invited speakers who illustrate further the in-house position. I wish to heaven there were a conference on the topic of the breeding & raising of companion dogs. And, to go far, out I'd like to see health & adjustment issues relating to companion dogs coming under the aegis of the National Health & Medical Research Council. Why? Because there is strong evidence of the link between the health & well-being of humans, with companion dogs....in all sorts of situations where they interface. Right down to post traumatic stress being detected in shelter/pound workers who have to PTS hundreds of rehomeable pets. I don't know whether there was a call for papers for this specific seminar but the AWSC has been around a while and anyone who knows anything about them knows that the breadth of research includes domestic pets so it would make sense for an organisation with an interest in domestic pets to express their interest in being a part of this organisation, they have an advisory committee consisting of a wide variety of representatives and if I were a representative of an org like the ANKC I would make sure I had a place on that committee, or at the very least had busted my gut trying to get a place on one. Interestingly Hugh Wirth is on the advisory committee for the CAWE at UQ, why he is I don't know but again if I were in the CCCQ I'd be wanting representation on that committee as well.