WoofnHoof

I don't think I'm in any danger of continued imbalance because the need to "top up" isn't constant. I've never been one for soft drinks of any kind, really, and there is so much negative press about all kinds of manufactured drinks these days. I like an occasional lemonade (as part of a shandy) and dry ginger ale (as part of a whisky and dry) :laugh: :laugh: . Well negative press doesn't mean much unless there is evidence to support it, after all the press labels every bully type dog a pitbull and we know how accurate that is. Electrolyte drinks (sometimes known as sports drinks) aren't soft drinks, they aren't carbonated, they also shouldn't be confused with 'energy drinks', totally different and opposite effects. Electrolyte drinks are formulated to replace electrolytes in sweat, the negative press is largely hype about the sugar content but the truth is without the sugar the drinks taste like sweat (the ones the hospitals give you don't have sugar in so I speak from experience) and if you are working up a sweat your sugar levels aren't in danger of causing a problem anyway. An electrolyte imbalance can manifest in all sorts of ways, not necessarily a conscious awareness of 'needing' something, many people are deficient without realising it until it reaches pathological levels. Things like muscle cramps and muscle weakness can be attributed to electrolyte imbalances because muscle contraction relies on the opening and closing of ion channels in cells, sodium, potassium, chloride ions etc go through these gates but if there isn't the right balance of each you can have problems. Most people will get the necessary elements from their diet but if you do sweat a lot or exercise a lot then it's useful to be aware of the possibility of an imbalance.

I perspire very very heavily and when I was doing bootcamp last year, asked the instructor as to whether or not I should take any electrolytic drinks. I am not in favour of so called replacement drinks. He suggested just some pure sea salt, a pinch in a litre of water. I've found the link, but it is PDF document. Anyone know how to load, please? The NaCl in sea salt is not the only electrolyte your body is losing through sweat, by not addressing this you will only result in continued imbalance. Is there any particular reason you don't like replacement drinks?

Dear lord people must think the natural world is a snuggly cuddly place if they can't handle a predator species killing a prey species without resorting to illogical anthropomorphic expressions.

It's interesting as I know a few people who are a bit mad on exercise but they think sports drinks are the work of the devil so they only drink water and then complain when they feel sick. They don't seem to believe me when I tell them that sweating depletes the body of electrolytes so they need to be replaced somehow. ETA it might be something to consider with dogs that are known to drink a lot to add some electrolytes to their water?

Oh wow you would never think of that unless you heard about it, thanks for the warning I'm glad your girl will be ok!

My husky will go anything that looks like prey, chooks, lambs etc, containment is crucial.

I agree with licensing absolutely, mind you I think all pet owners should be licensed anyway :) With most of these arguments you could say the same thing about huskies, they are a disaster in the wrong hands too and not for the average owner. As the law currently stands any monkey can go out and buy a couple of huskies and breed them so yeah I'm slightly less fussed about a rescue selling desexed foxes with what appears to be full disclosure.

You have obviously never seen stock killed by fox vs. the inside of a real slaughterhouse/home killed lamb. There is a huge differnence, trust me. And I do not believe brumbies are in any way "wild", they are simply feral domestic horses. Even ones that have lived in the wild for years can still be successfully tamed and broken in, just liek the mustangs in the Us who have probably been feral even longer. If somebody has a bunch of horses down the back for 50 years and never looks at them and lets them breed willy nilly and starve to death, they do not magically become wild either and I do know a guy with a mob of horses like this and yes, they are exactly like any other horse, just unhandled. Their foals, if raised tame, become just like any other horse, same as brumbies. Do you understand the difference between natural selection and artificial selection? It's a pretty important difference and fairly relevant to the discussion. Generations of breeding under natural selection does revert a species to a wild type, it doesn't happen by magic it's simple genetics and selection pressures. As for the way foxes hunt they hunt the way many carnivores do, take down as much as possible and get it back to the den, the reason people tend to find dead and dying animals is because the predator has been disturbed before they could take everything back. Death in nature is rarely pretty or clinical.

They rehome to families that can contain them. I'm probably the cause of more lamb deaths than they would be. How true. Almost every lamb born is killed & eaten by humans eventually. How is our killing more humane & justified. Because they are not left half chewed and still alive suffering in the paddock. Stupid foxes, why don't they just grow opposable thumbs and then they can use a captive bolt or knife? I'm sure they are just being deliberately cruel.

Actually no brumbies aren't just domestic horses that grew up without human contact, they have had many generations of natural selection pressures which has altered them significantly from domestic breeds in many ways. It's a perfectly legitimate comparison, they are considered pests and are culled on environmental and agricultural grounds, and they are a species which is amenable to taming and domestication.

I find many of the objections puzzling, would those who are against this kind of thing also against something like Brumby rescue? It's a very similar scenario, equids are an introduced species, are amenable to taming despite many generations of wild living, and are classed as an introduced pest with the potential to be harmful to the environment if not contained. The only difference I can see is a cultural bias, people can have cultural bias if they want to but don't mistake it for anything other than what it is. Some people like brumbies and want to own one, some people feel they have something to offer as a riding horse or pet that domestic breeds don't have. Ultimately all that matters to me is that the animal is appropriately contained and it's welfare is attended to, anything else is largely irrelevant. Given that generations of sustained culling hasn't saved the environment or farmer's livelihoods from feral foxes the chances a bit of chest beating over pet foxes is going to achieve anything useful is very slim indeed. :laugh:

Good news :) So he thinks its likely the resolve on its own? You gotta love specialists

Mutt classes have been around for yonks at ag shows, they are classes for kids to show off their pet. As Rebanne says how on earth can health be judged at a show? Sounds to me like Crufts is using the strategy of appeasement in response to the criticisms it has apparently failed to address effectively in the past. Appeasement didn't work with Hilter and it aint gonna work with PETA.

Living in the country doesn't mean enless space to run around unless you are also keen on endless fencing, dogs in the country need to be contained just as much as dogs in town. You can have a bigger yard as long as your budget stretches to fencing it, normal farm fencing wont contain most dogs.

Jelly the thing with the crate is it's not just another confinement it's meant to help soothe the dog's mind as it is supposed to be like a den. While in a yard they can run around and hype themselves up the den feeling is meant to be calming and non-stimulating, encouraging them to chill out while they are in there. That's been my experience and perception of it anyway, you aren't just locking the dog up you are changing it's outlook and it's level of susceptibility to outside stimulation. It's like the way activity rooms and sleeping rooms are decorated and managed differently in a day care centre, in the sleeping area you don't want heaps of distracting colours and sounds as it will prevent them from relaxing even if they aren't sleeping the environment encourages more quiet behaviour.

Beautiful photos guys, I think it's really important to preserve these places because they will evenutally disappear, you don't see many of those big tombstones now they are all just little and have to conform to the cemetery rules, same height, same type in each section etc.

Lol unfortunately the paddocks are not really much too look they are just overrun with weeds and prickles thanks to being overgrazed while I'm waiting for fencing on my big paddock, so I had to adorn the pics with some ponies :)

Just some paddock pics

You win Nek :laugh:

Timeframes and goal setting can be really good to help ascertain at what point you should see improvement and how much, but I would also be hesitant to set a hard and fast deadline, d day etc because it can add stress and pressure which the dog will pick up on. Jelly started this thread because she doesn't want to PTS so it makes sense that people are going to suggest ways to improve the dog's behaviour so she doesn't have to. The fact that she was able to leave her in the crate for 8 hours the other day without the dog going completely ape says to me that this might work, and it's very early days yet in terms of this particular training regime. She is a bit of an escape artist it seems so she does need to be thwarted in that respect no matter what size enclosure. My horse figured out how to open the gate between paddocks, I now have to tie the gate up with a special knot he can't undo, escape artists can be a PITA. :) Anyway that's my 2c, I'd be speaking to Nek and getting a couple of strong clips :)

Am I the only one who thinks the dogs v children debate is ridiculous? Firstly many people wouldn't know how they would react in a crisis, all sorts of factors can impact on reactions and its odd to judge people for what they may or may not do, some would go into shock and not save either does that mean they don't care? And secondary any scenario in which someone has the clear choice of who to save in a life or death situation is so unlikely that the lengths of debate on the hypothetical is pretty superfluous IMO. Personally I don't care about the relative value people place on humans or animals as long as they do place value on them.

Thanks Jelly she is a gorgeous girl :) I reckon 99% of the time she's happy or content these days, storms are her biggest issue by far and thankfully I've been home most of the time when we've had storms go through so I've been able to stop her getting over the top. I think a lot of the previous damage she's done was due to storm anxiety and being left outside without enough interaction. I'm not sure where my crate came from I think mum picked it up from a garage sale so it's an older type with just the door at the front not the sides, it does have thicker bars than the ones that are in the shops these days she did bend the bars but not enough to get out luckily. It's quite a large one so maybe the larger crates have a thicker/stronger mesh? I had it for the husky but he doesn't really need it as much.

Try not to stress too much Jelly just keep working on it, my girl has done terrible damage to her teeth over the years I will upload some pics, the crate training has really helped her and even though she did attack the crate badly once and did a lot of damage (to her and it!), luckily it's a really strong crate and survived the attack more or less. She has really settled a lot and is heaps better in the crate (and in general) these days. I've had her here full time for more than a year now, before that she was bounced around a bit which wouldn't have helped her anxiety. Here's a couple of pics of her teeth, the little ones are pretty much down to nothing. And of course a pic of the troublemaker herself :) ETA OMG I can't believe how huge those pics are clearly I should have scrubbed my fingernails after coming in from the horses before taking close up pics :laugh:

You aren't having much luck with eyes at the moment I'm sure if it has to come out she will be fine she looks like a very spritely old girl :)