WoofnHoof

What a foolish thing to say? Even human meat has been on the menu in case no one remembers. Where the human race is concerned, somewhere, someplace EVERYTHING and anything, is 'bred for meat' If you had a clue as to the inteligance of Pigs they certainly do not think they were born to be eaten. This is a species with just about double the brains and learning ability of a horse or a dog, so just what do you think denotes which breeds or species are acceptable as being "bred for meat"? Selective breeding in meat animals is different to selective breeding in racehorses, most meat animals are bred firstly for meat quality and secondly for docility to make them easier to handle and process, racehorses are bred to run fast and have a lightning quick reaction time. Not traits which facilitate a smooth and stress free slaughter process. Before you accuse me of being foolish perhaps you need to look at what it means to achieve a humane slaughter and how often it is realistically achieved, even in purpose bred meat animals the handling, stun and slaughter is not always perfect and stress free so add in factors such as heightened flight reactions to stressed animals and you reduce the likelihood of good welfare outcomes further.

I do! My video camera has died unfortunately I will have to try and catch it on the iphone :)

That's interesting I've never heard that one before! I know one hobby sheep breeder he has one but he's not very impressed by it but he got it as an older dog and it wasn't from a proper breeder so probably like anything the dodgy ones have ruined it for the better breeders.

People know it but would rather not have to think about it, and the line "as long as it's done humanely" is an easy one to say not so easy to actually achieve in animals which are not bred for meat. It's news because it's wastage and that is a bigger deal than it used to be. It's also news because of the horsemeat scandal in the UK bringing the issue into the public awareness, horse meat in Australia doesn't just go to pet meat it goes to human consumption as well and processing issues with a species with such variation in size and temperament can result in welfare issues. ETA I remember this article came out on one of the horse forums a little while ago, I was surprised at the people denying it happens since you've only got to go to a horse sale on any given day and watch the doggers get a truckload.

I still have no idea why there aren't more sheep farms with mareemas, they are proven to work there have been studies to that effect. Do you know why your neighbours haven't got any yet Steve? Seems to be it would be the logical choice to protect sheep. ETA and chooks too I used to live near a free range farm that had a couple of mareemas looking after the chooks.

I agree, even though I am one who is happy to keep thinking of ideas to try to help Jelly and Roo, oftentimes people have hit the end of the road before they come here and ask and would simply like some validation in their decision to PTS and some reassurance about doing it. I don't think anyone here would hold it against Jelly if she did that, many have said they wouldn't cope with the work put in. I know where she is coming from as mine is just as bad if not worse in some ways, it is a worry for sure and it does tend to affect everything you do. I think it is very hard managing a dog like this while working as well. I hope that Nek's method will work for this dog and that Jelly can get a bit more freedom, I think there has been some really good progress made even just in looking at the behaviour not just as anxiety but from other perspectives such as habit and demanding behaviour as well. It is a lot of work to undo negative behaviours especially when it is so easy for the dog to reinforce itself, and when you can't always be there to correct it it is a real hassle. Anyway, however this all pans out I think this owner is a great one and she is doing what she can for her dog :)

I often feed them when I've picked up dog food from the supermarket, mine love the 4 legs one. I was told by a vet surgeon not to feed them too much because they are full of fat which does match up with what I know about the human versions of meat-in-a-roll (luncheon etc), ideally you wouldn't use them as an all the time food.

The wild foxes get very bold over there, they are of course native to England and the suburban dwellers have adapted to forage for food around human dwellings.

Got some new pics yesterday and finally got around to uploading them, had some beautiful weather the last few days so I let the ponies have a run, Saffy just pottered about but of course Tiny had a great time hooning around! He's a little rotund atm Showing a nice jumping technique over the weeds lol I have to say that tiny pony zoomies are the most fun to watch :D

You can lead a horse to water as the saying goes... If people want to research they will, if they don't they won't - nothing you can do about it. I think registered pure breed breeders need to advertise in places that the average person looks at for a puppy Trading Post Petlink Local Paper These places are full of BYB and very few pure bred puppies - go to the buyers ! I think pets are on a big decline everywhere - Many people don't have time, or expenses for pets these days. I agree mainstream advertising is key, I don't think pets are declining overall there are still huge numbers of pets in this country but responsibility for them isn't high up on the list of priorities, hence why we seem to see dogs bought and dumped on a whim. I didn't do much (read any) research before I bought my dogs, in the past we just picked up a dog from the trading post or a giveaway and that was all there was to it. Now that lifestyles are so time poor breed choice is becoming more critical as people don't have as much outside time as they used to and are under more pressure from work etc so are less able to deal with challenging behaviours.

Lol so it does! Doh! :laugh: Well since we have a central point I think more promotion would be the go to get more people making DOL their first stop when they search? Would be good to get more public exposure to the site. Anyone doing a search on the Internet for puppies of a particular breed for sale will generally find DOL one of the top sites listed. Not really hard to find. I just search for Buy puppy Buy dog And DOL was in the top 3, again buyers need to put some effort in and research. So how do we get them to do that? Registered pure breeds are declining, if its not promotion then what is it?

Lol so it does! Doh! :laugh: Well since we have a central point I think more promotion would be the go to get more people making DOL their first stop when they search? Would be good to get more public exposure to the site.

That is awesome :)

That's a good point, is there a central point at which breed clubs can be found? I know plenty of Joe Public dog owners wouldn't even know there is a club for their breed much less where to find it. I knew SFA about my breeds before I came here and I'd owned dogs for years, so have a lot of people I know. I agree that links to breed clubs would be far easier to manage than one site that encompasses the whole thing, although it would be useful if they came under an official umbrella like the ANKC so that its easier to find affiliated clubs and have them all follow the same format to keep it simple for people who don't have much time to trawl through several pages trying to find the relevant info. They could follow on to a more complex it individualized format but the first page could keep the same structure for each club and health data etc also simple and easy to navigate.

I would wonder how a couple of people can adequately care for 112 dogs, that's a lot of dogs! I know some people can care well for a large number while others can't even care for one but surely there should be a point at which we can say x is too many dogs for one person? In a child care centre there is a limit as to how many children can be adequately cared for by one carer, this is in addition to the laws surrounding the environment and the other aspects of care. I think laws reducing numbers would go some of the way to addressing the puppy farmer issue, not the whole issue of course but looking at the common factors with puppy farms its usually large numbers of dogs with very few people responsible for their care. Most boarding kennels would have staff support if they housed that many dogs.

Links have already been posted for a website that does this... I have seen those pages before and they are good ones but as stated they aren't Australian sites and they are only relevant if you are researching diseases already, I'd like to see a 'Dog Hub' type resource where you can go to look at breeds, find breeders and also find all the health info in the one place. A bit like a larger version of the Dogz breed pages or Dog breeds 101 section, something that encompasses everything the average dog owner needs to know in a clear and concise format.

Does patient confidentiality apply to dogs? I'd be surprised if current information about hereditary diseases wasn't coming from vets, do they not participate in surveys, studies etc? I am all for health testing and having public results - My dogs are tested and the results are on my website. I also host/run a Hip & Elbow database to get a breed average for our breed that has no mandatory testing. BUT the buyers needs to research and research and do more research. A public database means people can see results but in reality what does it mean to the lay person if they don't understand it? There has been plenty of media stories on puppy farms and BYB and yet people still buy from them??? Why make it hard and confusing? Why not integrate it into one source for ALL the correct information, how do people know which sites are providing up to date and correct info? Not everyone has a research degree or the time to do one in order to find out a bit about their breed. Even just a central hub with the links to the right websites and endorsed by those with some authority (ANKC, AVA etc) would be so helpful for those who can't sort through the inter webs to figure out what's what. ETA re the puppy farm/BYB thing it is not easy for the general public to reconcile the images of breeding dogs in filthy conditions with the cute clean puppy and the nice lady selling it, if they recognised a puppy farmer they would indeed steer clear but the visual disconnect is where the inconsistency comes in. All the anti puppy farm publicity has been centered around images of dirty dogs and dodgy sellers, those who present a different picture are not directly connected in the mind of the buyer.

I think a national database is a good idea, one that vets and the general public can view and only authorised vets, breed clubs and ANKC officials can alter. Everyone can google but what is google telling them? Some of its correct some of it isn't and a lot of people wouldn't know the difference, look at all the 'facts' that get thrown around on FB without even the hint of verification, people just believe it and pass it on as if it is true. Collaboration with vets could also help to disseminate fact from fiction as they would be able to add relevant health information. For example say I have a dog with HD and reported this to the breed club, they add that into their records but I neglect to mention that the dog is also overweight and this has been a contributing factor. By having veterinary input they are trained to look at other factors so they might add a note to the database that yes this dog has HD but it is exacerbated by its excessive weight. In a dog within the correct weight range the problem may not be as severe or even affect the dogs mobility. I know that vets aren't infallible but they are trained to record and assess health issues so I think a database that could be accessed and added to by vets could be beneficial. Most vets now have microchip details on record so it would be simple to crosscheck these against existing ANKC registers to check that the dogs which are stated to be pure can be verified, all others can go onto an 'unknown or not verified' section so that results can still be recorded but not be confused with verified purebred dogs.

Oh that's a bugger JB Lulu scratches and chews a fair bit too, I think it's a combination of summer allergies and anxiety as she does it less in winter and she does it more when she's stressed out, I suppose the benefit to having her teeth worn down to nothing is that she can't do as much damage to herself anymore! It's frustrating, though she does stop when I tell her if I catch her doing it and I do think it has reduced a lot recently. It's hard to break that kind of reinforcement because if they have a bit of an itch and they scratch they remember how good it felt and how much relief they got so it tends to become a habit even when they aren't itchy but need the feeling of relief that is associated with scratching. Does Roo have sensitive skin? I wonder if some kind of antihistamine might help? The behaviour might be too ingrained that the removal of any skin issues may not make a difference but it might be worth looking into.

OMG you have no idea :) He is a character all right he does the funniest things and its such a crack up if I have a visitor he does all sorts of antics showing off just like a toddler :laugh: Jilldog yeah he has a white snip on his nose, one of these days he will get another wash and I can see if he's got colour coming through or just dirt lol, he might be going to the mini show at the end of the month so he might have to be clipped again he's getting a bit hairy, he likes clipping though since its all the more attention for him :)

So what is a tiny pony to do when he gets a brand new rug? Roll in the mud of course! :)

Zen my chi was named by my nieces, I was going to name him gonzo short for speedy Gonzales in keeping with the Mexican theme for Chihuahuas (my first was called Dessy short for Descaro), but I allowed myself to be overruled as no one really liked Gonzo. Sonny my husky I was going through a phase where I was calling everyone Sonny Jim, and it just seemed to suit him so that's what he's called. Lulu the SV came with her name from the rescue, it suits her well enough :)

I'm down to two after losing my chi last year, I was going to keep it at two for a while but there is a chi size hole in my life

I've owned big dogs and little dogs and irregardless of the propensity for yapping ultimately it is owner irresponsibility which is the problem. By the account in the OP the little dog was minding its own business and was attacked, there is no reason to believe the attack was provoked or that the little dog was yapping or behaving aggressively and to make the assumption that it was based on the dogs size and nothing else is ridiculous. Little dogs don't have the market cornered on aggressive behaviour, any dog can behave aggressively its how the owner manages it that counts.

Could be an infection in the nose or sinuses, smell is usually the result of an infection somewhere so hopefully a course of antibiotics will clear it up but it will be useful if the vet can pinpoint where it's coming from just in case there is something that might be causing an ongoing infection.