puppiesmum

:cool: I'd be demanding they re-test for free as they have stuffed up. The levels should be taken at TROUGH. i agree with puggles. you can't take the test after meds it doesn't work. go back and talk to your doc about it, many don't know the protocol properly if they haven't had the exp , but those tests are bloody expensive so id demand it be done again. I will be getting the test done later in the afternoon next time - It was just in this instance that circumstances with work etc we couldnt get him there any other time. The first test was taken about an hour before his meds were due. So we will get that next time. its just difficult timing it as he is terrified of needles and its bad enough putting something into him let alone trying to draw blood out!! Last time was an absolute mess - there was blood everywhere. 3 of us could not hold him still This tiny 5kg dog grew strength I dont think even he knew he possesed! it was truly a mess! As for demanding a new test for free - there is absolutely NO WAY I would have the nerve to do that - considering I cant remember the last time I actually paid to see the vet!! So even if the results arent 100% I'd say we are still up by a long way!! He's been really good to us.

Okay, an update so far. No more fits since I joined on here - its been 2 weeks from yesterday since he had his last fit and his petite mals have virtually completely stopped for now. but this has happened before - and then out of nowhere the big cluster comes along. I started him on some fish oil tabs as suggested - 1 every 2nd night because they are too strong otherwise. He had a blood test a little over a week ago and his levels were around mid range - maybe a little higher - they test was taken a few hours after his meds dosage though. So he is staying on 1.5 tabs morning and night for now and we'll get him tested again in another few weeks just to be sure that its not too much for his little body. So for now its just a waiting game as you would all know The vet spoke to a specialist also and we have other (more expensive) options if this higher dose of phenobarb doesnt work which we will explore if need be. I dont particularly care what the cost if it gives him a long and happy life.

Charlie is on liquid bromide - I actually didnt even know there was a tablet form - but the liquid is easy enough, just one squirt in his dinner each night. But in answer to your question - I dont know if there is a difference between liquid and tablets - what have you found so far?

puppiesmum, have a look at this website: www.canine-epilepsy.com There is a forum you can join and there are lots of people that can help. Good luck with your little one's seizures. Thanks white shepherd mom - I will shoot off and have a look now.

Thanks for the tip on how much fish oil Rappie I also saw cod liver oil at the shop last night when I went to get the fish oil - and it specifically says on the label that it is for healthy brain function - I was going to grab both but figured it would be too much for him. So I'm with Lynlovesdogs - has anyone tried it and does it work?

There is a difference though WSM saying that they can 'possibly' cause them to saying "they DO cause them so don't vaccinate your dog anymore' which is what Morgan originally said. If vaccinations cause epilepsy, why is the average age of onset of convulsions 2 years? A dog commences vaccinations at 6 weeks. Where have I said in this thread anything whatsoever about possible causes of epilepsy? All I did was quote the advice of two different vets and offer a link with comprehensive info on a diet to assist with treatment of epilepsy Guys, I'm just trying to get some tips and info on how best to deal with my pup - so does this really matter. I keep checking when there is a reply on here thinking someone else has some useful information but its just arguing Can we just leave this be? I see what all of you are saying and I did post asking for thoughts and advice. There is not one particular set of rules for any dog with epilepsy so I am taking EVERYTHING on board. i appreciate all of your replies ... Except the arguing ones

Oh gosh, I'm pretty slack - usually when the boys get oil on them from running around under the car I wipe it off to get most of it off and then they just wear it off Bath time is never fun in our house - so if they get a bit of grease/oil on them too bad I say

my boys go crazy for liver treats - you can break them up as small or as big as you want. You can buy it from the dog food aisle in your supermarket.

silly question - can we give them too much? Charlie is only 5kg and Oscar is 6kg - could I do them any harm if I gave them 1/day?

http://www.advancepetfood.com.au/products/?product=5 This is the dry food I am feeding them now - and Im embarrased to admit it, but I dont know how to read the label to know if it is good enough for him or not

thanks for the tips Staffy-lover. Your right, puggles did cover most of it, but its still good to hear it from other people too. You know I have been like a robot when it comes to treating Charlie - as soon as he starts fitting I gather what I need to care for him and hold him when he tries to take off running in his last stages of his fit. but it is just so repetetive you know, and heartbreaking sometimes. you think you might be getting somewhere, then Bam, another cluster that goes for an hour up to a couple of days. And he has no signals that he is about to fit... he just does and as soon as he has one we are on high alert because we know he isnt going to stop there. I cant beleive that website that actually suggested putting something in their mouths - sorry, but I like my fingers on my hands thank you very much Its funny everytime charlie fits and FH is home with me he gets paranoid that Im giong to jam my fingers down charlies throat! And even afterwards I get his blanket and wipe the sides of his mouth and he has a mini panick attack Funny story in all this gloom - Charlie is a real mummy's boy so is always great with me, but the first time FH saw him have a fit he went to pat him and he must have done it just when Charlie was snapping out of it and he bit FH! A lesson learnt hey As for the double dosing - we do actually do that most of the time. he gets his injection of valium and then another pheno tab. Although I havent been giving him another squirt of bromide - Im not sure if I can to be honest. I'll have to ask the vet when I see him on Friday. And I will be getting some fish oil to try out on the boys. Who knows hey - I'll try anything!! but what are the benefits of doing so suppossed to be? Also, one last question for now - what do you feed your epi pups? I'm not too sure what I should be feeding him anymore to be honest.

Thanks guys for you quick support - I really appreciate it! Frufru, again, thanks for bumping the other thread, it was very interesting to read! Puggles - here are some of the answers to your questions (it is easier to do it this way ) *What state/suburb are you in? Mackay - QLD. *Has your vet taken bloods to check his trough levels? What were they? He has had 1 blood test so far to check the med levels in his system, and Im pretty sure they were only about 3 points higher than the minimum theraputic range. So it seems we have room to move. *Has your vet ruled out all other possibilites for the seizures? Seizures can be a sign of another illness or disease. - Not really. He seems 99% sure that it is epilepsy and I dont really think that we could really get the tests done in Mackay anyway. *The valium dose can be repeated if he doesn't stop. It is important you stop the cluster as he could easily go into status. Valium is relatively harmless and it is not easy to overdose - I give him up to 2 x 1/2ml injections per hour when he is fitting. When he has his first fit I wait untill it stops and while he is in the still state - it gives me plenty of time to get the needle in. Plus he is only 5kg, so if he came out of it before I managed to get him the needle I could pin him down easily enough. Sometimes (actually most of the time lately) though he will desperately want to pace right after his fits. If I try to hold him down or carry him somewhere where he is safe to walk around without running into walls etc he will cry and scream like he is being murdered! I just ignore that, because he has always been a bit of a vocal sookie la-la and then just put him down where he is safe and he immediately shuts up. Sometimes though in between fits he will seem so out of it and he looks almost like he is blind. He will take 2 steps then pause for a couple of seconds, then 2 more quick little steps and then pause again and that just continues. *It is vitally important you keep him cool during the cluster. His temp will rise dramatically during the convulsions. Use ice packs or put on the air con (no matter how cold you are). After the cluster, give him a little something to eat as his sugar levels will be low and he will be exhausted. It is like running 10 marathons at once. I give a little bit of bread with jam usually. - I didnt really think about keeping him cool - although it does make perfect sense that he would be absolutely exhausted afterwards! So I think I will keep a little hand towel handy in the freezer for when it next happens (I need everything handy as I am usually alone when he fits). I also read somewhere to give them a tablespoon of honey when you think they are going to have a fit - or during clusters, I guess its the same line of thinking you have with the bread and jam. *Be patient. The meds take months to sort out and to get the correct levels. The trough levels will tell you if you can 'up' the meds more. - I am usually very patient, but for the 1st time since he has been diagnosed I have really been down about it. I cried 2 nights in a row this week But although his petite mal's are now less frequent it is still concerning so I'm certainly not jumping for joy just yet. The vet called me back today - and Charlie is off to the vet on Friday morning to get a blood test - you know how I said he was a sookie la la, well we have to give him tranquilizers to get the blood out of him. Our first attempt left blood everywhere! He was not a happy camper! So when we get our next lot of tests back we should know what our next step is. The specialist seems to think we should keep him on pheno and bromide but just up the dosage. If not I beleive there are other WAY more expensive options that can work with the pheno and bromide - around $60-$80/month that are quite effective - and in all honesty I would pay that for the rest of his life to keep him safe and healthy. He's not a happy little camper at the moment. *Reduce or eliminate sodium from his diet as this will effect the absorbtion of the drugs - The only packaged food I feed him is his dry and it is 'advantage' brand from the vet - not cheap either so I wont be too happy if that is super high in sodium! Other than that I cook their dinner once a week - a mixture of premium mince, brown rice, pasta shells and vegtables and they have that each night with a little bit of the dry food - do you guys think this is healthy enough? And for treats I have just started baking them healthy low fat cookies (I love cooking and baking, so this gives me the opportunity to do it without having to be 'forced' into eating it all myself ). *Reduce or eliminate grains, preservatives and carbs from his diet. - see above - do you think this is okay? Should I be cutting brown rice out of his diet? *Feed raw or natural where possible. - any suggetions? *Give his meds with food to help prevent nausea and to assist with absorbtion. - he gets them morning and night - in the morning with a dog buscuit and at night in his dinner. *His meds MUST be given EVERY 12 HOURS PRECISELY. There is no swaying on this. If they are not given ever 12 hours precisely you will risk the levels dropping in his system of the PB and he will start having seizures. - I am fairly strict - 7am and 7pm, but I will try to be even more careful with the times. *A third drug can be added if you are able to stick to an 8 hourly regimine but it is not overly common in Aust. I have also heard of a new drug that has recently been introduced in the US and will be made available here in given time too. *Accept that the best you can do is manage the condition. Some dogs, no matter what you do will still have seizures but you can slow and reduce them. The drugs given are not a cure but are used to manage the seizures only. Most assume the drugs will stop them and, if they do, great but in many cases it only slows the frequency, number and severity of the seizures. - thats our aim. We have accepted that he is not one of those dogs who will grow out of it, or who will have only a couple a year if that. We would be happy with NO clusters - just 1 or 2 max at time every couple of months even. So my turn to ask a question = how do you all feel about the yearly heartworm needle? I've just had a look and it seems that he first had his cluster of siezures on the 13/4/07 and only on the 3/4/07 he had his first annual heartworm needle. He also had a fit that same night = a few hours after he had his vaccinations on the same date and his heartworm needle. From there he has never really gone back to a single seizure except once. So has anyone found any links? I do not want to stop him getting his yearly vaccinations as I beleive they are very important for him, but I'm just curious about thoughts on the heartworm needle - it could be a coincidence, but perhaps not. I dont know. Phew - what a long post - sorry guys

thats me... I've just sat down and read all 15 pages and what a read! Sometimes I feel like Im the only one who has to go through this, but its actually comforting to know there are other people out there who seem to be going through the same thing. Here's the link to my other thread http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=110946 and my story is in there. thanks a heap Frufru for alerting me to this thread - it has been an awesome read!

Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum and I have a really big problem with my adorable little baby Charlie. He has a really severe case of epilepsy which he was diagnosed with a week before his first birthday in February this year. I would love to hear from people who may have experienced an animal with epilepsy and particularly how they dealt with it. So here is our story: We first found out Charlie had epilepsy in Feb this year when in the middle of the night he had a grand mal seizure and fell off the foot of the bed. Him and his brother Oscar are both little foxy/Jack Russel X and sleep in our room when my fiance is away at work. So I freaked out as you could imagine and early the next morning after I shot him off to the vet I was given the sad news. All was okay for a while and we decided not to put him on meds to start with as he was only having one every month or so. April 13th this year (yep - BLACK Friday) he had a really horrible turn and luckily my partner was home and rushed him off to the vet. He was having a couple of fits clustered together and then a couple more a couple of hours later and they were terrifying. So we made the decision to put him on some drugs temporarily and then to see if we could wein him off them. Unfortunately we havent been able to as he has gotten progressively worse and has large clusters of fits. To start with it was once a month and we would have to give him valium tablets to slow him down. One morning he had 10 in about 2 hours before the valium kicked in and he could finally get some rest. Now he is at the point where he will have them about 2 weeks apart and we are having to inject him with his valium as it is the quickest way we can get it into his system, although it doesnt seem to be having the desired effect. This Friday just gone he started early in the morning and hasnt really snapped out of it yet in the way that he hasnt had a grand mal seizure since Saturday afternoon, but he has had very frequent petite mal seizures that knock him off his feet. I'm usually pretty positive about this but seeing him constantly have the petite mal's is really breaking my heart! I am loosing hope Our vet is wonderful - he no longer charges us for epilepsy related visits (and god knows there have been ALOT) and calls regularly to see how he is going. He is currently trying to get onto a specialist in Brisbane to see what he can suggest we change his meds to. He is currently on Phenobarb and Bromide and it clearly is not working as well as it should. So really I was just wondering if anyone has had any experience or can relate any stories of what they tried - any home remedies or foods to stay away from. I am getting desperate as I love my baby boys beyond what you could imagine and I really just want my little boy back - they one who spoons with me when Im reading a book and watching tv, and gives me cuddles on command :D So guys and girls, anything you can give me would be greatly appreciated! Fingers crossed XX