jesomil

I think the main differences in perceptions of "work" is whether or not working instinct is involved. Working dogs generally have an instinctual purpose such as secutity dogs, sheepdogs etc etc. They have been bred for their working ability and can do tasks not every dog can do even within the same breed. The dogs still love their work. I wouldnt class obedience dogs as working dogs. It is totally dependant on the handler if the dog will go well. Any dog can get a CD title. Obedience requires tonnes of effort, dedication and skilled handling and is alot of hard work but not what I would class as a working dog. Eg my last Rotty was a very good obedience dog but could she do what the breed was intended for? No. Was she a working dog? No. I dont think a dog is any more or less if it is a working or obedience dog. Both require lots of work to achieve the desired result.

Peta and Lindy are great

Great videos Vickie. It is truly amazing what some working dogs are capable of even before they are trained. I have a video of my boy working ducks at 7 weeks. Amazing that such a tiny thing can work. If I was more clever I would post it but I dont know how . Is that Paul Macphail on Australias got Talent?? Its great!!

Great news about Bud ;) . What a trooper. I feel your pain with the vege garden. A certain red and tan got into mine last week and did alot of damage . She was close to being "suddenly disappeared" .

Great to hear Bud is home. Hope that its just a bit of gastro knocking him around and he will be back to himself asap. Tough times when our loved ones arent well.

Sorry for your loss . He sounded like a very special boy.

Hope you get some good news today Kelpie-i. Thinking of you :D

I agree with this. Whether the drive be conditioned or instinctual we have to consider the welfare aspects. I dont believe it is ever force as the dog is getting satisfaction from it. But we need to recognise that the dogs sometimes will not set their own limits and we have to do it for them.

Hmmm interesting. With my boy, I dont believe he has a choice when it comes to his prey item. He would chase it till he died. I dont think it would be posssible for him to ever switch off from it unless his body started faltering. I could go outside in 44 degree heat like today and his focus would not waver. Same as when he is working stock. He could never stop, I always have to monitor him and tie him up when he needs a break. I dont believe it is force as he gets satisfaction from it but at the same time, he cant stop himself.

:rolleyes: Very funny thread. Would love to have seen it ;) .

Oh how sad. I really enjoyed watching his Goldens trial and enjoyed competing under his judging. A definate icon of the obedience world. RIP.

Beautiful dogs Anita. I LOVE seeing dogs do what they were bred to do.

Went to a Dunbar seminar years ago with my Rotty and she did it from all positions. Tried it with my current Rotty and she will only do it from in front and at my side . Oops, I had better keep training. Such a great exercise though. Shows how well your dog really knows the commands.

I am so sorry Shelly. Goodbye beautiful long legged, floppy eared boy .

I am pretty confused about neutralisation and its purposes. All the good working dogs I have had contact with have had positive values assigned to basically everything and then training has overridden it. So in the end, you get a dog who is happy and confident with everything but is fully switched on and in tune with its owner when in training mode. I would love to know the answers to these questions. The thing I dont understand is just say you have a dog who you have neutralised to people. It has been out and seen the world alot and is confident around lots of people but never seeks pats etc as it has never received them. Just say this dog has one negative experience with a human (eg gets fallen on or gets a painful injury that needs treatment etc) how do you stop this dog then assigning a negative value to strangers. I personally, would like my dog to have many, many positive people experiences to fall back on in this situation. I think it is a training issue if you cant get your dogs focus off other people and dogs not how much value they place on their desires. ETA nothing...............changed my mind

Well, that certainly clarifies it. What a disgrace.

LM, can you please clarify where it says that ANKC doesnt support schutzhund? The above paragraph says that training dogs to attack people or other animals is opposed, but I dont see the sport of schutzhund mentioned.

Lots of great thought provoking stuff in this thread .

Wow Kelpie-i, that is great. Thankyou so much for writing all that out. It makes complete sense. I have spent way too much time in recent months mulling over the different pack theories and trying to get thoughts and ideas clear in my head. What you have written is brilliant. It is basically what I have been trying to think about but put in a clear, logical, understandable way, especially how it describes how dogs have changed over the years for survival. Our current day dogs are certainly scavengers. Thanks for sharing .

Now I am curious as to what you learnt about innate pack structure existence.....

Wow, the parent submission is huge!! You have done such an amazing job with all this. Lets hope they listen and laws are changed.

Made me laugh but I totally agree. Terrible what us humans are doing to dogs these days. ETA More people need to step up and be a good leaders and start treating dogs like dogs.

Very interesting. Rottweiler - 18 months old - 35 seconds (have been working alot on focus lately). Has been clicker trained, food rewards. Formal obedience. Kelpie - 4 years - 43 seconds. Trained sheepdog and has done a bit of formal obedience with toy reward. Kelpie - 2 years - 0.5 seconds. Trained for sheepwork only, no obedience. Tried again with reward. Rotty - 20 seconds, then started offering different behaviours because she wasnt getting the food. Kelpie - 60 seconds then I stopped. He got into a trance with his paw off the ground. He would have looked at me forever to get the toy. Kelpie - split second glance.

Wow, that is amazing!! So much involved. What a great dog you have trained. Will have a look at more videos when I get the chance.