jesomil

What a shame alot of vets have little understanding of all this. My own vet said there was absolutely no point in getting the test done on my dog with behaviour issues, but after reading more I think there needs to be alot more education in theis area. Interested to hear your findings Erny. ETA because I shouldnt try and write posts at midnight.

I think early desexing is very obvious in some dogs. Its mainly large dogs, but i can pick from a distance alot of the time, the ones which have been done early. Not a good look. They are generally taller with less bulk. Much better to let large breeds mature a little. ETA the difference is only noticable in males. No difference in females.

Great post about the nails Vickie. I have never thought about it that way, but its so true!! Its a very good way of showing the real relationship between a dog and owner.

Oooohhh, he is stunning

Do you allow all this to happen? I think you need to pop on your pack leaders hat and sort it out. The situation shouldnt be allowed to get to this level. You are the top dog here and you call the shots not the younger dog.

My 5 year old Kelpie is like this. He cant say hi to someone nicely without turning into a whirlwind of excitement. His Dad is now 11yrs old and still behaves like this!! I once asked someone to approach him on lead and as soon as he started to get all wiggly they stopped. Then kept approaching and stopping. He quickly got the idea that as soon as he started to get silly they would stop or back off. Eventually he sat still and got a pat. This would work if you did it with everyone and were very consistent.

Just make sure you progress with the training as tasty treats are all well and good when teaching the behaviour but the dog then has to learn that he has to come when called, not just because he wants a treat. The command is not negotiable.

Agree 110% ETA just watched some of your videos. You guys look like a great team!! You are doing so well with his training. Hope you can get some help with his nipping.

I have had a chat to Kurt who is very helpful and am getting one from him. Its a good price too. Schweikert muzzles look great but yes, very expensive for a "just incase" muzzle. All I need it for is vet visits so nothing too major but i wanted a good solid one anyway. Thanks .

Have emailed Dogquip. Thanks for the advice .

I am after one suitable for a Rottweiler. Thanks for the ideas, I will have a look at those places suggested. MonElite, those muzzles look very good quality but i had no idea they would be so expensive!! I guess you get what you pay. I had a look at those Ebay ones but its hard to tell the quality.

I am after a good quality leather muzzle. One of the ones that the dog can wear comfortably and allows the dog to pant freely. I have seen some lovely ones on overseas websites but was trying to get one from Australia. Any suggestions of a good place? Thanks

Well done, that is brilliant!!!

Dark angel, I understand what you are saying and yes, i think too much socialisation can be a problem in some dogs. Its great you are teaching your dogs how to behave around other dogs. There are alot of people who dont allow interaction with other dogs and it works very well for them. I think the worst socialising you can do is let strange dogs mingle while owners are chatting. Most people havent a clue about body language and things can go bad very quickly.

Congratulations, they are beautiful babies!!

I dont believe the divide is growing, it has always been there and will always be there. In general, you simply cant breed for the show ring and for work and get a high standard in both. In some breeds high class working dogs are necessary and you arent going to get that by breeding for the show ring. There will always be the two breeds within some breeds.

How random.... Of course a dog that works well doesnt always breed well. A good worker with 10 generations of good workers behind it will generally breed well though. Within some breeds a reconciliation is not possible, the breeds are too far separated. Even with a comprehensive testing system, it still wouldnt work. Some trait would have to prioritise. Which would it be?? As long as people realise that there is a need for dogs who are bred for work, then things are all fine

For some breeds that probably works but for dogs such as sheepdogs, they can have the best, most wonderful conformation but if they havent got what it takes in the head, they wont be a worker. As Vickie said (great posts by the way), there are so many complex traits needed for working, that if you start breeding for anything other than them, you lose out. Working dogs arent bred for ability over everything. Conformation is very important also. You will be hard pushed to find a working bred sheepdog with anything other than magnificent conformation. Their work is very hard on their bodies, so they are tested everyday. Only the best are bred from. Because their bodies are worked hard breeders can see quite easily which dont make the grade.

Working dogs are just as purebred as their show bred cousins. I do not see where anyone is denigrating show bred dogs. They have their place, its just that working dogs have their place also. I would be very disappointed if I bred a working litter and only a few worked. I would say that nearly all working bred pups I have come into contact with will work. Some will work better than others and that depends on genetics, environment and handling. It is not pot luck. I am sorry that some here have only come into contact with dogs that have been bred with unknown heritage so they end up with average pot luck puppies. Just because a dog is bred on a farm does not straight away mean it is a working bred dog. WKC registered pups are sold with a guarantee that they will work, and that is when they are sold at 8 weeks. They have carefully selected genetics with strengths and weaknesses. If only a few of the litter would work then they couldnt possibly have those guarantees. Unfortunately some people are close minded on the topic and until they can see things with their own eyes they will continue to base their knowledge on what friends of friends have said or do.

I just read the Saluki article. It is very informative and raises very important points.

If the dog has the right drives plus the right conformation he will be more likely to perform the function. Without the drives it doesnt matter what the dog looks like, he cant perform his function. No one is suggesting throwing away what breeds typically look like but without correct drives, they will never be workers and workers have to be bred not just happened upon in a litter. Alot of working lines are just as purebred as their show bred cousins. And I have never seen a member of my breed with anything other than excellent conformation. They cant do their job without it. Many years ago I bred and showed a herding breed. There was great excitement when a pup out of a litter showed some instinct working sheep. It was filmed as well, just to show that instinct still exists in the breed. Looking back, it makes me laugh that the small unusable amount of instinct that dog showed made us believe the dogs could still work. One pup out of about 30. If you put a working line Kelpie next to a show line Kelpie I know which 99% of famers would choose. One is bred generation after generation on carefully selected traits to make it a great working dog, the other is bred generation after generation on their conformation. Working kelpies have a conformation standard that is bred to and that is why they all look similar, it is just not the priority. You couldnt produce great workers if it was.

You were saying that a Kelpie can be used as a guide dog. I was saying that I doubt many would be capable if any at all. The guide dogs I have seen have been selectively bred or have traits that have been selected to make them good working dogs. I mentioned Aust standards because someone might say they have a kelpie guide dog but but does it match up to the standards. Alot of dogs have issues created by their current handlers so I wouldnt agree with you about rescue dogs.

I cant imagine a Kelpie being used as the norm, more of an exception and would it pass the testing in Australia? It would have to have certain traits not the norm for the breed. How is a rescue any harder than any other dog? It is a test on the handler as the dogs ability to follow instructions are as good as it has been trained to. Some dogs are harder than others but it depends on the handler as to whether it will win or not.

I would class a GD as a working dog. They are serving a purpose, they have specific traits needed, there are breeding programs designed to breed those required workable traits, its certainly not a task every dog is capable of.