jesomil

Very interesting thought. I guess city based dogs will probably never have to use their skills in a real working environment therefore we are doing it purely for pleasure. But we are still showing off the lines and their abilities as their parents and brothers and sisters are all all real working dogs. I am a country person wanna be !!! I trial even though we are city people because i love the breed and their abilities and even more adore being out in the country and around country people and livestock etc. I love showing off my dogs breeding as well. But we are lucky in the fact that my dogs can work stock every day and they do have a use at home. I guess i am doing it purely for my dogs and my pleasure. If i couldnt work the dogs i would have gone for another breed. I also realise that lots of working bred dogs bite and stress sheep. It has alot to do with their breeding and a huge amount to do with the person trying to train them. One of my working bred dogs is not a great worker. She would be alright on a farm doing small chores but is completely useless for what i want her for. She has too much bite and too little eye. I dont take her to training and i dont trial her as she will never be suitable. Inexperienced handlers are a problem with everything, not just with city people. Its hard to draw a line. There are some city based triallers out there and many from where i come from that do really well and are brilliant handlers and win repeatedly over farm dogs doing regular real work. I think there is still a point. They are showing the dogs breeding, ability and trainability.

I was talking to a friend the other day and she was telling me about a dog that is a known biter. It has seriously damaged sheep before. BUT the worst part is that she saw it at a trial recently and it got another sheep!! These dogs should be outed from the sport. Sheepdog work isnt about training for years to get some form of control of a dog chasing sheep. It is about harnessing the natural instincts of the dog and as someone else said before trialling is a testing forum for the training and breeding of effective working dogs. I have never seen any "herding", so i cant really comment too much. I am just going off what i have been told. I dont belive a title after a name means a great deal. I am yet to see a show bred dog show much real work. I mean, how can they? They were used for herding hundreds of years ago but since then have been bred purely on their looks. The working bred dogs have been bred purely for their work ability with looks not coming into it. Therefore the show dogs are far prettier but the working bred are far workier (is that a word?? ). But on the other hand, i would be interested to hear others opinions and experiences.

I have never seen or had anything to do with "herding" trialling or training. Lets hope this kind of stuff doesnt happen often.

I would definately stop any access that the pup has to the chooks. All pups will want to chase chooks and its not fair to reprimand them all the time. You dont want to cause bad habits either or repress instinct if you want to do herding in the future. Chooks are not suitable for herding training as they dont flock together. Indian runner ducks are great for starting a young pup on as it encourages instinct but there is no chance of the pup getting injured. I started mine at 7wks.

Hi Kelpie i, Yes, Terra is my crazy young boy. I thought that you guys might be the ones from here but i wasnt sure. We should have said hi !! I get a bit shy walking up to people - i should just get over it . Is your pup one of Herding_guys? If so, i think i remember who you are. Your older dog (black/tan?) jumped really well in the jumping comp. The jumping scares me a little though cause of the injury factor but it is great to watch. My dog was a bit stiff the next day from it as he had never jumped before. Were there a few pups from that litter there? They kinda looked similar. Yes, i thought it was really quiet which was a shame. It is such a great weekend. I think the city slickers was the only event with heaps of people watching.

No, chickens arent any good. I wish they were though as i would love to get eggs! Chooks split up, they dont herd together well and could teach some really bad habits to a young dog. Indian runner ducks are the best as they stick together and herd beautifully and can run quite freely. They dont waddle like other ducks. And the males are the best for suburbia as they are quiet. The females are the noisy ones.

Kayne, We also have the same problem about being in Melbourne and having no where close to train. So we have indian runner ducks in the backyard. All my dogs basic training has been taught on the ducks and it transfers straight over to the sheep. Obviously there are things that can only be taught on sheep but for all the basics, the ducks are great. We can train whenever we want and dont have to drive for hours. On the weekends we go to a club to work sheep. We set up a round yard in our backyard to work in till the dogs got to a high level of control then we just used the backyard. We also take the ducks to different open spaces to practise. The ducks are a great focus tool, so you can teach most of the commands. It might be something worth thinking about if you have the space and facilities.

I was very surprised to receive a toaster !! But its great. Our old one really needed replacing. I will put up some working shots of dogs when i get organised with them. There was also another Koolie there and it was a blue merle. It didnt work though. I have learnt alot about Koolies and how they work in this thread !! Its all very interesting. I love the photos of them. From this thread, it sounds like ducks may not be the best stock for Koolies to work I think a Koolie might do a bit of duck plucking!!

We went really well. It takes so much precision and concentration to manouvre the ducks through the obstacles. I was so proud of my boy, he did so well. We ended up coming 3rd!! We also got 1st in the city slickers sheep competition, 1st in the novice high jump ( he had never jumped before but ended up jumping 6ft 11) and 2nd in the encourage sheep trial. We entered the Novice sheep trial too and did ok and he got a score, but i know what we have to work on now. Paddock work!! Sorry, i will stop my weekend brag now. I am so happy with my boy. He cant get out of bed today though. Big Weekend!! Here is a pic of him with his prizes

The weekend was great. I got to meet Kayne's beautiful pups. The Koolie is stunning. The colours are amazing. Such happy, friendly dogs!! And also met shoemonster. You couldnt miss the 3 staffy's amongst the sheepdogs , so i plucked up the courage to ask if they were from here and thankfully they were or i would have looked like an idiot! It was great to meet you guys. Sorry i couldnt chat more but inbetween competing and feeding my baby, it was a busy afternoon. That Eddie if yours is such a good looking dog There was not that many people there on the Saturday. Heaps more on the Sunday though. We had lots of fun

Oh Pax, those Koolies are beautiful. I especially love the pups colouring. Magnificent !! Have fun with the sheep. Look forward to pics.

You will be easy to recognise with the Koolie pup. I will be under an umbrella somewhere trying to keep my baby out of the sun with 2 red and tan kelpies. You have to enter the fun events. They are a good laugh

I didnt know all the info was on the site. Last time i looked, it hadnt been updated for years. Yes, we are doing sheep and ducks and the fun comps. We dont do cattle though. Will take lots of pics !!!

Oops, or you can just go to Kayne's link above I was too slow

It certainly is!! Its the Working Dog Festival. There are events running all day Sat and Sun. It also incorporates the Tri Challenge Championship. The dog who gets the highest score at the open level trials with sheep, ducks and cattle wins. It pretty impressive watching a dog that can work all three types of stock. Such a difference going from being rough with the cattle then to being gentle with the ducks. So basically it is run as a duck trial, sheep trial and cattle trial all levels then there are other fun things like puppy competitions, city slickers, high jump, tricks, sausage eating comp, working dog race etc. And there will be agility, flyball and lure coursing demos throughout the days as well as instinct tests, etc etc. Is that a good advertisement I am excited although a bit nervous.

Pauls place is on the South Gippsland Hwy so you just keep going and you will arrive at Welshpool. It takes 2hr 24mins from my house to get there in the eastern suburbs. It depends where you are going from. Look up www.whereis.com, that is where i got my exact time from and it has directions too.

Brilliant !! The drive in these dogs is truly spectacular.

These are all fantastic replies. I knew by posting this on here i would get some good ideas and discussions. But as someone else said, where do we start?? It is something that has to be done very carefully and professionally. I have been looking into a few things. Maybe a good start would be to speak to someone who works in the legal field?

Thats one brave dog!!!

It depends on the male/female. I think some female handlers can be a bit too soft on their dogs and allow them to get away with more although there are some male handlers who do the same. There are some dogs that can be hard to handle with their owner and then with someone else they are really good. Its generally because their owner lets them get away with alot. Thank goodness you posted this here. I dashed out to the closest early voting centre when i read this. We are leaving for Welshpool friday lunchtime as we have to be there at 8.30am on Saturday and i dont fancy getting up that early to drive then. I have entered novice ducks, novice sheep and city slickers. Hope to see you other DOLers there. Maybe we should tape DOL on our forehead for easy recognition . Or maybe i will just randomly ask people when i recognise pics of their dogs from being posted on here.

Excellent !!! Its going to be great fun. Are you entering anything? It will be great to see some DOLers!

Are any victorians heading to Welshpool on the weekend??

Well, seeing we are doing photos, i cant resist.

This is very interesting about the Koolies. It seems that they dont use eye and are fairly fast and furious. I find the kelpies fairly pushy too, but they use eye and can be taught to settle down and work the sheep well. Maybe the Koolies have origins in cattle work where i would think they would need to be pushy and noisy. Maybe they are more naturally dogs that drive instead of head. I would like to see one work one day. On the topic of borders and Kelpies, i said before that i thought borders were more paddock and kelpie more yard. This doesnt mean that the kelpie cant do paddock work and the border cant do yard stuff but i guess it is just their strong points. That is why there is quite a division of breeds in yard or 3 sheep trials. But there are heaps of dogs out there being all rounders on farms. I went to a Greg Prince workshop last year (best ever) and he has borders. He noted that alot of borders will not back sheep naturally wheras kelpies will jump up like they were born to. I think borders work a little more off the sheep. But like anything there will be certain dogs in a breed that will show different traits but i am just generalising here. I think genetics play a huge part in a dogs capability. You can have two red kelpies standing side by side that look identical, but have different breeding. One may work hard and fast and be a real yardy type dog and the other may work like a border, out wide and more paddocky. There are so many different lines. I wanted a dog to compete in yard trials so i went to a breeder that has really good yard dogs and got exactly the traits i was after. I wouldnt have been able to just get any kelpie and guarantee the same results. A dogs breeding means everything.

Ah, the beautiful Trim. She is a stunner. I have always admired the photos of her working.