Steve

Eagle Pack is one of the better dry foods but it does have a fair bit of corn in it From memory its listed in 3 or 4 differnt ways which implies that added together there would be a high amount of corn in the product and corn is notorious for causing the blood stream to heat up. Its also got chicory in it which Id avoid too. The Ivomec is an insecticide and while its good for killing off heartworm lavae ask yourself what [ over time] you would expect to happen to your body and your immune system if you took a monthly dose of a chemical like this that sits in the blood stream for about 6 weeks. It might be an idea to take the dry food and the ivomec out of the equation until at least the problem is under control . Use a daily med for a while for the heartworm prevention instead. Anything else other than working on the immune system is simply a bandaid solution and wont stop it from coming back or getting worse and it wont stop other problems from developing over a longer period of time. The problem is caused because there's something wrong on the inside of the dog and its just showing itself this way You do have to treat the symptoms but you also need to have a hard look at the possible causes.

Try having a look at what may be going on from the inside out. Anything with carbo hydrates in it will heat the blood stream so avoiding these is a good thing. Especially corn and wheat. Instead of just treating the hot spot try approaching it as if it were you with the problem and do for the dog what you would do for yourself if you had a need to quickly build up your immune system. Raw unprocessed foods,vitamins and minerals in a good mix ,omega 3 and 6 fatty acids antioxidents and amino acids etc. Stinging nettle tea is good to cool and clear the blood stream , aloe vera juice added daily to the food and put onto the areas that have the problem will help and keeps down any risks of infections developing. The only thingthat will clean out the lymph system is exercise so dont over look this as a part of the recovery process and of course fresh air and sunlight . None of these thing can do any harm and they can be used in conjunction with any treatment you follow withthe vet. These things are caused by an immune system problem and by using all the chemicals and drugs you need to use to move it sometimes it actually causes a bigger longer term problem with the things. Can you give me a rough idea of the diet, whether you"ve had some vaccinations in the last 12 weeks or so, what you are using for heartworm, fleas etc?

If you can get this article printed and have a good long look at it you'll see much of what most of the marketing has us believing just isnt true . If you can understand the basic principals of this article you stand a much better chance of finding a food thats the best value for your dollar and not fall victim to the billions of dollars spent on sucking you in. http://www.fda.gov/cvm/index/consumer/petlabel.htm

Foundation Formula Canned Food Analysis: Crude Protein (min) 7.00%; Crude Fat (min) 4.00%; Crude Fiber (max) 2.00%; Moisture (max) 78.00%< Hard to see any value in this .

A while ago choice magazine did a big research thing on most of the brands available in Australia and the findings were that the only real difference was the energy content . Foods with higher energy levels were more expensive and those with less were cheaper. If they have a higher energy level you need to feed less so in other words the more expensive ones charge more depending on the marketing and the fat content. Take a good look at the labels on optimum and advance One is available with less marketing in a supermarket and the other via vets and produce merchants etc for a much higher price but the real differences according to the labels is pretty minimal. Both are made by uncle bens, You may need to feed less of the Advance but not much. The canned stuff turned out to be about 60 percent [at best] moisture and in my opinion based on the way its prepared , whats added to it [same chemical as anti freeze] and the cheap solders they use and leach into the food including the fluid content I reckon regardless of brand its a case of a waste of money and all you get out of it is a bigger pile of runny smelly poos. Do some homework Most of the big companies have supermarket brands and in many cases there's little difference between these and the more expensive ones. If its listed as a complete food it has to have the recommended dietary allowances in them , forget all the stuff you hear about better protein sources etc and compare the energy levels. Change your brands regularly, mix em together, add table scraps and some raw meaty bones , anything soft or on the turn at the back of the fridge, fat out of the frying pan or the griller, yoghurt, eggs, fruit and fruit juices, peanut butter sandwiches, eggs and anything else you can think of and you'll cut down on the costs, the poos and have a healthy dog.

i didnt vote in your poll because I feed whenever I get to it There isnt any routine to when I feed as such as it depends what else is going on here , the weather etc. Adults get fed once per day and unless its old, pregnant or a pup nothing gets fed on Sunday.

I dunno Throwing a bone or two out once a day with some table scraps seems more lazy to me . Especially when there's about a third as much poop to pick up and less time used on things such as parasites etc. You can put a muliti vitamin pill on a peanut butter sandwich if your worried about missing out on something.

Firstky have a look at whats causing the staining It may be as simple as cutting the fine fur back from around the eye that often ccauses irritation. You can use apple cidar vinegar [ works great ] but if you add some to the food or water it makes a huge difference if the problem isnt caused by somethingmechanical like double eyelashes etc.

Sorry K9 I read it that the lady wanted her dogs to stay by her side when they were in the garden and that one had already escaped. Ive no doubt based on your knowledge and experience that what you are saying is correct and over the years Ive had many that actually almost had me fooled into believing that I could [within reason ]Trust em. But Ill take some convincing that you could ever really trust the method to work every time. Im not saying its not possible but its a hell of a hard ask. As a breeder it would be nice to be able to send my pups home with a method of training that would prevent them taking off so I could tell new owners they dont need good fencing or vigilance if they used a certain method but Id much rather tell em they need good fences and to never ever walk em off leash. Too scary.

Sorry to disappoint you all but there is nothing you can do about this . Beagles put their noses down and go. They dont hear you or see you. If they are scenting they will actually head - but a post if whatever it is has gone that way. I give this lecture to everyone that asks about owning a beagle and many come back telling me how their dogs are different and they can relax that they wont roam. Ive had one in the last 12 months who rang to tell me all about Ralph and his accomplishments at obedience and his list of medals he had received because of it. I tried to say how wonderful BUT you still cant trust him off a leash but to no avail. Ralph was run over and killed about 3 months ago. Over the past 30 years I would say that one out of every 2 litters is lost or runover. The owners are shattered and tell me they feel like they let me down but its the dogs they let down. During this time Ive tried any number of training methods but you can never over ride the natural instinct. Some will lull you into a false sense of security and you think all is well and then the nose gets interested and off they go. All breeds have their own management issues and this is it for beagles. They always come home sometimes days later IF they arent killed along the way. They dont hear cars or see them. The only way you can do something about this is to build secure fencing . I live on 2500 acres and around the house we have fencing thats only 3 feet high but it has concrete all around it so the little horrors cant dig out. We also use large fenced pen areas when we arent around to keep an eye on what they are up to. If you are going to keep your beagles ,there is no option but to build better fencing. No amount of training will ever ensure they stay with you. EVER .

You can access these books from any good library and most of whats inthem is on line anyway. My backgound is in nutrition [human ] and herbal medicine and I promise you there's nothing you can suppliment with that does a better job than having a balanced varied diet .

I really do think its a bit of a push to describe this diet as a natural one. Im unsure of where you get your info from re vitamins etc but I dont agree with much of what you say regarding the need for suppliments and to ask me to go with the idea that adding synthetic vitamins is better for you than fresh food is much too hard. If you feed a dog meat which has phophorous in it [a mineral] the body needs various other nutrients for it to assimilate properly The big one in this case is calcium. If you dont feed calcium with the meat the body uses the calcium thats in the body to be able to metabolise it . So a classic symptom of a calcium deficiency is when you see a dog that doesnt look like its walking on its toes but morelike its walking onits pasterns. By the way there is a ton of diferent types of calcium . Some types cant be assimilated by the dog at all and some need huge amounts like in kilo lots to do any good. Feeding raw meaty bonesgives you not only the right type of calcium but the magnesium and also the right ratio of calcium to phosphorous. Vitamin C needs other vitamins to assimilate properly . One obvious one is iron . Add the vitaminC wihout the iron and it will need to be found inthe body to be able to get from one end to the other. Fruits and vegies have boththe iron vitamin C and folic acid to make the whole thing do what its supposed to do. Dogs dont assimilate vitamins the same way as humans and dogs arent exposed to things like caffiene and tannin which kill off vit B.etc Dogs actually manufacture their own vitamin C but they need to have the nutrients needed in the rght ratio to be able to do this effectively. Every single nutrient needs others to be able to function. Add too much of one without nough of another and over time problems will show. Because it doesnt happen straight away you dont blame the diet but everything is reliant on minute quantities of all the amino acids, vitamins and minerals interacting with each other. I do agree that you need to add things if you are feeding a commercial diet because the vitamins and many of the other nutrients are killed off in the processing and storing process, there are no live emzymes and most if not all have many minerals missing . Many of the grains block the absorption of some nutients as well. Ive used this example before but it helps to understand a little better If you take two chemicals oxegen and hydrogen you get water . This is capable of putting out most fires but if you separate them then on their own they are capable of fuelling the biggest fires on earth. Its the same princial when you add any nutient in the wrong proportion . If you suppliment at all a multi vitamin and mineral is heaps better than choosing just one or two. If you want to feed this diet then Ive seen worse and full marks for taking the time to have a look but my opinion is that you can do much better more cheaply. My advice to you in your other thread was to have a good look at the BARF diet sites and study them a little before you make the decision to go this way. Here are some links that may be helpful in getting a fair view of what I would call a natural diet which is certainly not this one. http://www.bluegrace.com/barf.html http://www.rawmeatybones.com/ http://www.barfworld.com/html/learn_more/barf_pups.shtml http://www.barfworld.com/main.shtml http://www.barfers.com/bigpicture.html

;) You know what I mean. :D :D

dry dog food is loaded with bacteria , E Coli is everywhere , including on door handles, remote controls ,taps in the dirt, on human grade vegies, etc. Ive been feeding BARF for a very long time and I have 8 kids. The only time we ever got food poisoning [ salmonella] was from a take away food shop. All the kids and the dogs are trained not to lick faces and just basic common sense hygiene principals. Wash your hands after playing with the dog, and before eating etc. I have a 7 year old son who has never ever been to the doctor for anything other than vaccinations and as a Mum I dont consider the threat of picking up these kinds of bugs anything to be concerned about . Dogs play around in all kinds of dirty stuff and making a decision not to feed raw food based on this kind of argument doesnt factor in the fact that what YOU feed a dog is better than most things it will choose to feed itself. It will eat its own poo and any other animal"s that it may happen upon, anything smelly and rotten . It will drink from puddles etc . There really is nothing to worry about here.

I feed a raw food diet . The aim is to feed a diet full of variety which is balanced over time [around a period of about a week] Dogs manufacture their own vitamin C and a raw food diet should be able to provide all of the vitamins and minerals needed for good health. Ive 8 kids and I dont give them added vitamins on a daily basis I give them some now and then if the appetite has been rotten or they have been sick etc but the basic principal is that a balanced , varied diet is all thats required . All of the necessary vitamins and minerals are available through feeding this method. Once you start to suppliment some things you run the risk that you are knocking something else out. When you enlist a recipe the chances of over doing something or underdoing it increase and its my opinion that the more variety the better rather than getting locked into a set feeding plan. I also dont feed any grains.

As I said in your earlier thread I dont think dogs who are being fed a raw food diet with enough variety need suppliments and its the component of Wendy's diet I dont like. Not enough variety and suppliments needed. You can give a dog the same vitamins as humans Just remember to equate the dosage with th weight of the dog . Usually a childrens vitamin will do.

I will also add that I sold a kitten once to a lady that absolutely adored it. I sent it home with all of my diet suggestions[ of course BARF] but at the first vet visit the vet told her the diet wasnt good enough and sold her some commercial food. She rang some weeks later very upset because the kitten had runny poos [i cant spell die a rear] for several weeks It had been treated by the vet by changeing the commercial food brand but symptoms were still the same. To cut a long story short it turned out that the kitten never had die a rear in the first place but just normal for what poos are like with commercial food . It was just that she had experienced non smelly drier poos with the BARF . The vet was going by what she said and didnt take a look for hmself . Sounds simple but some tmes what seems to be a problem may be a normal thing for some foods. You can try feeding nothing else but mashed pumpkin mixed with some natural yoghurt , honey and corn flour for about 48 hours and see if that makes any difference. Might be an idea to add some staminade or similar to the drinking water for a day or two as well . Just a little to replentish any lost electrolytes and a childrens vitamin . You canalso buy some prebiotics from the health food store which gives lots of natural flora and helps a lot if its a bacterial problem. If that makes any difference you can begin to slowly introduce other foods I usually add some cottage cheese and just a little human grade beef mince the next day and if all is well add a little more pet chicken mince over the next day or two. Then if there's no problems within about a week a normal BARF diet can be put into place. NO CARBO HYDRATES AT ALL FOR AT LEAST 2 WEEKS . Come back and let us know how you go.

I was hoping you'd come in on this one Rappie . Surely if the dogs had runny poos for this length of time and they are talking the type of meds they are there should be some kind of diagnosis Im reluctant to give any kind of suggestions until there's a reason given for the problem . Big difference to just a quick bout of the trots to what we are talking about here.

What is the vet saying is the cause of this ? Has he done stool sample tests for endo parasites and other things like this .What kind of tests have been done ? This is not normal for a dog to have poos like you describe for so long without a good reason. There are things in your kitchen you can add which will kind of firm the poos up etc but if you dont know whats causing it this may just mean you trap whatever the problem is inside and cause a bigger problem .

Sounds good to me

Ailsa Anything at all that you can find to point us toward an answer will be much appreciated. I fel like Ive hit a brick wall and it doesnt sit well with me at all.

Hi Belinda thanks for that I think any input is great Surely sooner or later we have to come up with some sort of idea.

My vet tells me that in dogs they get most of their antibodies from their placenta and a smaller amount from the milk which is why its possible to raise healthy pups on artificial bitch milk This isnt so with many other animals. My 2 surviving corgi babies have gone to their new homes both very healthy and very happy. I still dont believe what I had was Ecoli and the more I look at the way this bug works the more sure I am. My vet and I are still no closer at all to knowing what the hell happens and why its only this bitch. Wish I could say something earth shattering to knock this over but in all honesty Im no closer to knowing now than what I was a year ago. My vet seemed to think that it may be an issue with the male dog but Ive used different sires and Ive used them over different bitches with no problem. Jim any word back from the vet you gave the info to?

I gave my pups glucose at birth --- made no difference.

Ange, Any info is good and thanks for going out of your way but my girl is a corgi the dead opposite to tall and skinny and the symptoms werent the same.