Steve

Different solder is used for pet food.

Once you get a diagnosis from the vet and know exactly what you're dealing with there are all kinds of things we can recommend but ANYTHING on the skin is a result of whats going on inside so addressing the skin problem without the immune system is a bandaid only effect and can very often make it worse . Adding chemicals to try to clear it up compromises the immune system even more and may take away the rash but make something else thats going on inside that you can see as easily at more risk. Very often you see this kind of stuff about 4 to 8 weeks after you have a vaccination done or introduce monthly [ or worse] yearly heartworm meds.

These diets all look pretty good to me . Biggest deal of all is to be careful not to get bogged down into being strict on what you feed so that you dont get the variety. The more foods you feed the less chance you have of needing suppliments . Frozen vegies are blanched before they are frozen which breaks down the cell wall a bit but the reason fruits and vegies come in and out of season is because they have the nutrients in them which are more needed by the body during that season. So buying the cheapest fruit and vegies because they are in season is obviusly cheaper but also better for them. All you need to remember is that you keep to mainly raw meaty bones and add as much variety as you can get your hands on justthe same way as you eat yourself or you feed your kids. Canned cat food is 70 percent water and has anti freeze in it . Any omega 3 or 6 in it is destroyed by the heating and canning process and so too is the vitamins. They also use a cheaper solder which is not passed for human consupmtion an it leaches into the food. So it has very little benefit to your dog at all. keep in mind .... You can juice your fruit and vegies and you drink the juice and give the dog the pulp. You can buy whole fish cook the thing for yourself and give the dog the head . You can buy sardines and share the contents with your dog . Makes you more healthy at the same time as your dog and brings your dog food bill way down . All things except onion and chocolate in moderation and everyone gets everything they need . Then start looking at the food in the back of the fridge thats on the turn or out of date , fat out of the frying pan and grill, crusts of the vegimite sandwiches ,apple peels,vegie peels and if you get really stuck a peanut butter sandwich is just as good as any commercial dog food for a quick feed . If you're worried the dog isnt getting all it needs then stop for a minute and ask yourself if you worry like this over your own dietray needs and if that doesnt work chuck in a child multi vitamin every now and then. If your dog has skin problems you can add some apple cider vinegar to his water or food and add a good cupful or so to his bath water. This makes his skin taste bad to any parasites and gives him some extra vitamins and minerals and on the skin it makes sure that there's no bacteria or fungi and keeps the ph level where it should be. Remember also that sometimes when a dog has skin issues before he goes on the diet they sometimes appear worse for a short time while his system cleans out all of the toxins .

Well done Slowone ! You'll come in very handy around here . Take special note of what can be used to boost the immune system and what you can use for parasites.

You need RAW chicken ON THE BONE . Wings, necks carcasses. Feeding any meat without bone causes an in balance with your minerals especially those which keep bones and joints in order. Cooked chicken has no benefit for the dog whatsoever. Its better to give the chicken on its own in a seperate meal to your dry food . Anything the dog doesnt eat in 15 mins take away .

Jed, thank you ;) :D :p :p

O.K. Greentea I hear what you're saying and no one wants to chase George or anyone else off with redneck attitudes . The fault is with us if we came off as being anything other than wanting to help and it was never my intension to insult or badger anyone into my way of thinking . Ill pull my head in .

greentea What self rigteous rubbish? [B]My baby puppy eats bones and raw food and kibble sometimes, he seems to like At the end of the day Thats good but organic meat is grown for the food chain just as any other is its also killed the same way and what you describe isnt a vegetarian diet . Big organic farms around here have just as intensive operations as we do The difference is in the chemicals used not how intensive it is. Organic vegies are grown in poo instead of fertilizer pellets and no chemicals are used. Cattle and sheep are raised without chemicals and drenches etc. Their throats are still cut and their only purpose for existence is to feed humans. Our farm [ not organic] has less cattle per hectare than a local organic farm . Chickens are just as intensively farmed when they are raised organically as they are otherwise. At the end of the day George My Doggie and anyone else who is a little over being lectured by dog-experts and the like, I feel the best thing to do is be confident in the fact that there are vets you can take your animals to and have them make sure the animal is thriving and well. Much of what can go wrong makes it appear that the dog is thriving and well and results in a few months or years with a problem Its why when I spoke about your problem with suspected joint problems that I recommended particular nutrients to protect the dog for the whole of its life not just to make all seem well for now, Its good to know that everyone is an expert and that it comes so easily . It doesnt take a life time of study or years of experience to be able to answer a question with knowledge on nutrition for canines all it takes is to own a pup for a few months Then you can call anyone who attempts to help you or someone else self righteous and similar . Sometimes I wonder why I bother.

Just for the record it wasnt my intention to insult you and Im sorry you felt that way . My intention was to state that based on the fact as I know them feeding a dog a vegetarian diet is very dangerous and I would expect that it would impact eventually on its quality of life and longevity . I can tell you these facts If I was the breeder and you told me that you were going to feed a dog I sold you a vegetarian diet I wouldnt sell it to you. If I was an insurance company and found that you had fed a large breed dog a vegetarian diet I wouldnt pay the insurance. If you came back to me because the dog had a problem such as HD and wanted compensation I wouldnt give it. You asked for advice and mine is , dont feed it .Its not a persoanl attack on you but my views on the diet you asked about.

KathP Can you tellme how many eggs you put in your mix ,ie what is the ratio of egg to your vegie mix anddo you add the shell? Here is a link for the minimum nutritional requirements of dogs and many of the 10 essential amino acids a dog needs [ humans need 8 ] are not found in vegies or grains. Also an article written re the cons of vegetarian diets for dogs. Nadia I dont know of any reserach re the long term effects of a diet such as this but there are thousands of research papers on amino acids, protein, vitamin and mineral mix and their impact on longevity, bone and joint function etc . The science on what each nuttrient is used for and how diet impacts on the LONG TERM well being of the dog just doesnt support the concept of a vegetarian diet for dogs unless amino acids and several other nutrients are added as suppliments. There is one study that was conducted whioch showed that adding vegetable fat [ eg flax seed and sunflower] did improve the dogs coat over a 20 day period but over an 85 day period the goodeffects backed off to the same condition as before the beginning of the suppliment . http://www.lowchensaustralia.com/health/nutri.htm http://www.canoe.ca/Health0001/09_linton.html

When I send my beagle pups home they go with a recommendation that they are fed nothing else but raw chicken wings for at least the first few days . They eat raw meaty bones from the time they are about 5 weeks old but their Mum feeds them chewed up bones and meat before this. Raw chicken wings for breaky means that he wont need lunch as they fill em up and stay in there longer and you may as well feed cardboard to a pup as feeding weetbix especially after a long break . Remember he's teething so chewing on bones is good for him inthis regard as well. The biggest thing that you need to remember when you feed your dog is that it needs to be fed the same as you . That is with lots of variety and balanced so that he gets all he needs in the space of about a week just like humans he needs more unprocessed fresh food than otherwise. If at the end of the day you decide on commercial its better to feed all different brands rather than stay on one. Some hills science diet has ethoxyquin which is a known carcenogenic. http://www.bluegrace.com/barf.html http://www.rawmeatybones.com/ http://www.barfworld.com/html/learn_more/barf_pups.shtml http://www.barfworld.com/main.shtml http://www.barfers.com/bigpicture.html Here are some links The book Give your dog a bone is excellent to teach you the basics in canine nutrition .

Any news yet?

I think GMD has made it perfectly clear that she is going to make an informed, educated decision, that will not be to the detriment of her dog. If the dog refuses to eat or doesn't do well on the diet then she will change it. If dogs are perfectly happy eating a vegetarian diet, and healthy then I really don't see where this idea of it being 'cruel' comes from. GMD has never said that she will 'force' her dog to eat this food or that she will maintain if the dog isn't healthy on it. Sorry I thought GMD came here to get advice in helping her to make adecision either way and if you offer the dog nothing else in my opinion its forcing the dog to eat the food and she wont know what the long term results of feeding her dog a vegetarian diet are until much later in the dog's life. Being open minded worked for me when I began studying canine nutrition and Ive been open minded while Ive been studying and learning about it and it means I have looked at it from all angles and I feel that based on this its a crock and is infact neglectful to feed a dog this way . Very little in your dog's or cats lives may be considered natural but around here Ive got a fair number of dogs and cats that live as naturally as I can make it . Ive never had to clean an animals teeth ever and they have perfect teeth and sweet breath well into their late teens and 20's . Ive never had a dog with cancer, obesity or organ problems.

Raw egg white does bind to biotin BUT mother nature provided the answer and if you eat the raw egg whole there's enough of all the good stuff in the yolk to override the issue. Raw egg is the best known source of digestible protein for a dog but you have to feed a hell of a lot of them to fill em up and to have a high enough ratio of protein when you mix it with the rest of the foods you need to do so.

A dog's digestive tract isnt the same as a humans andd they cant assimilate many vegies unless they are pulverised as the cell wall broken down and even then it's a hard ask. I agree that a vegetarian diet in comparison to a commercial diet would probably be better but there havebeen many studies on amino acids [ found in meat] and what benefits they have for the dog and literally how the dog cant live without them Its why raw food [ meat is such a wonderful thing for them as the amino acids are intact and not destroyed by cooking etc . because of the way the dog assimialates his food getting the right balances of minerals is very difficult and protein is a real challenge especially when soy products are no good . This is all about common sense and not looking at the dog as if its human . Have a look at how the dog has evolved and I promise Ive never seen my dogs eating my broccoli off the plants as they grow . Left to their own devices they eat meat as a preference . if you do decide to go ahead with this and Im definitely against the whole concept, you will need to add enzymes to help the dog digest and assimilate the food as it doesnt make enough if the type of enzymes required to break a lot of vegies down effectively . You will also need to add amino acid powder or it will be deficient in these and without them you will see things such as kidney problems, pancreatic and liver problems and a miriad of others including cardiomyopathy which is caused by a lack of taurine which is only found naturally in raw meat You will also need to add omega 3 and 6 fatty acids and a vitamin and mineral suppliment . remember also that a dog can look like its doing O.K. on most diets for a fair length of time and when things do start to turn up its blamed on the genetics, or old age or just an act of God and the diet isnt taken into account because its been fed for a while with what appears to be good results. Its your dog and your risk but before you take the plunge at least take a look at the differences between dogs and humans and a good look at how their digestive system operates . Give your dog a Bone is a great book to have even if you do feed commercial or vegan as it explains the dog and not human digestion and feeding. If you dont agree with killing animals to eat them better let your dog know this as dog's have been killing animals for food and scavenging off other animals kill for a hell of a long time and given the chance thats exactly what he will do .

please read this one http://www.health-marketplace.com/p-Altern...cer-Therapy.htm

Egg Whites are used as a base for the ratings Not that it matters much all partsof the egg have a good digestibility rating . I wouldnt expect that the shaking would be a symptom of a protein deficiency You'd be more likely to see a dull coat etc first Some large breed breeders believe its better to keep the protein down to about 23 percent to help keep the pup growing more slowly and others dont agree that this will impact and use about 30 percent to feed the bones and joints more. But its still all about what kind of protein and what else you feed with it . --------------------

Yep Id try the glyconutrients There's loads of great research coming out now about them. The cheapest andeasiest way to give them is to feed Aloe Vera Juice Its the highest of the glyconutrients . http://www.afpafitness.com/articles/AnimalvsVegetable.htm

Its not about how much protein but more about the digestibility of the protein. For example when they talk of the digestibility of protein they use an egg white as a jump off point as this is the protein with the most digestibility . Feathers, hooves, fur etc are all protein but not very digestible Corn is about half as digestible as egg white. Protein is made up of lots of amino acids which are killed in cooking and storage and protein also needs various vitamins and minerals to help it do what its supposed to do. The one most people are aware of is the ratio of phosphorous [ which is in meat] and calcium Too much calcium and the body will leach phosphorous from the bones and organs to assimilate, too much phosphorous and it will leach the calcium . So its not that much to do with how much protein but what the protein is and what else you feed with the protein. Commercial dog foods which give the percentage of proetein on the label dont necessarily mean they have more digestible protein. There isnt anything to worry about with too much if you feed a balanced varied diet.

Im sorry I didnt come back to have a look until now. Cooked lamb mince has nothing much left in it that your dog needs and it may be even having an impact on the problem. Firstly when you cook meat you kill off all of the amino acids, and the vitamins with some of the minerals. When you feed meat without the bone whats actually happening is that you are feeding a food high in phosphorous with no calcium. Phosphorous needs calcium for it to go from one end of the dog to the other so if you are feeding too much phosphorous it will leach the clacium and a couple of other minerals from the bones and the joints . Your dry food has a balance of this but adding the extra meat may have an adverse effect. Then you have a situaton where commercial food has a limited amount of vitamins as these are killed off in the processsing and storage process andno enzymes which are used to assimilate foods and get the liver, pancreas etc functioning properly . If you stop for a minute and consider your own diet or your childrens then it puts the whole thing into an easier perspective, You know that you cant possibly give yourself all you need in the right combinations and amounts at every meal, you know that when you go shopping and cook that you need to have a variety of foods andyou try for a balanceofall youneedoveraperiod of abouta week. Believe me if it really were possible to give everything a body needs every sinfgle meal in a form such as this that would keephumans healthy we would have seen this on the market by now but weknow its not possible. Eat nothing else but big macs every single feed and your body will start to yell and scream at you that it wants a change and more variety. You also know that foods with the least amount of processing are best for your immune system and to keep you healthy. Fresh fruits and vegies etc. The only reason we think we need to sweat more over a dogs diet thanour own is because of propoganda put out by commercial dog food companies. Try some of these links but remember you dont need to be a rocket scientist . All you need is a small knowledge of how the dog evolved , which wasnt with cooking utensils so its not suseptible to the bacterias we are andsome common sense. http://www.bluegrace.com/barf.html http://www.rawmeatybones.com/ http://www.barfworld.com/html/learn_more/barf_pups.shtml http://www.barfworld.com/main.shtml http://www.barfers.com/bigpicture.html

This is a young dog and you have a fair chance of stopping the knee problem and fixing it as well. the problem is caused by the ligaments and cartlige around the joint not the joint and its all about how well the muscles etc work to pull it all back into place. So take a very long look at your diet . Raw food would be best as this gives magnesium and other minerals which will help the ligaments to expand and contract properly . You need to be careful your diet is balanced with both minerals and live vitamins to help them to work , enzymes to help assimilate them . It also much about trauma and exercise so have a look at how the dog is being exercised look for steps and restrict rough play as much as you can. Aloe vera juice [ one teaspoonful 3 times per day ] will help heaps and cant do any harm . If you see runny poos back the doseage off a bit . LP isnt just about genes but also very much about diet and exercise so make sure you concentrate a fair bit on these. All breeds of dogs can get heart murmurs, some disappear by about 12 weeks and some stay Most dont cause any kind of problem just as humans have arythmia and can lead normal lives so can dogs. Serious things that cause problems with the heart dont normally show up until they are older. Its thought that the murmurs and other heart issues can be caused by a lack of some amino acids in particular taurine which is found in raw meat Some studies show that dogs fed commercial dog food when they are pregnant are more at risk of whelping pups with this problem as taurine is destroyed by cooking and storage .

You could try adding some amino acids .Specifically phenylanaline . Best way to do this is to give your dog some Aloe Vera once per day.

The humid weather comment jogged my memory and yucca have been used for yeats infections but then again so has the aloe.

Aloe Vera and Yucca are not related . The yucca plants are known for the results they get from arthritis type problems and aiding joint health however bcause they also speed up the elimination of wastes and they have lots of saponin ,its also possible to imagine that they would help in allergies . There's lots of different varieties of Yucca and some are better than others and different parts of the plant are used as well. If I was chosing between the two for any kind of theraputic reason Id go aloe vera anyday over the yucca.

Look Noone was saying puppies think like this but it does pull at your heartstrings putting a baby through such a major op and if I ever loose that feeling of loving my pups and wanting to protect them from pain when they are babies I think it will be time to give up breeding . Apart from that I would consider my vet extremely experienced and one of the few Ive seen with a major in canine medicine and she wont desex before 5 months. Its not that she cant or doesnt know how or hasnt done enough of them . She desexes my kittens at 8 weeks . Its because she doesnt believe its good for the dog to do them as early as this. Thats because her perspective isnt just on a welfare point of view . It wuld be in her best interest to do them so young as she would then get the money instead of some other vets when they are 6 months old