Steve

Yep - seems to me that someone reads it differently to me. Same with the ANKC stuff - is training a dog to attack a sleeve training them to attack a human? If the intent in the training isnt to teach them to attack a human but rather as a demo of their ability to do what they are bred to do via grabbing clothing - is it the same thing ?

We have now posted our first minor questionaire on our website. Its designed to collect info to help us try to see patterns in the issues dogs suffer with We're asking for everyone who has had or who still has a sick dog to give us a few minutes to answer the questions for us. You will need to re do it for each dog and if its something that's happening now you are able to go back and update the info. It comes up as a pop up or a link at the top under survey on the front page of our website. www.mdba.net.au Julie

We have now posted our first minor questionaire on our website. Its designed to collect info to help us try to see patterns in the issues dogs suffer with We're asking for everyone who has had or who still has a sick dog to give us a few minutes to answer the questions for us. You will need to re do it for each dog and if its something that's happening now you are able to go back and update the info. It comes up as a pop up or a link at the top under survey on the front page of our website. www.mdba.net.au Julie

We have now posted our first minor questionaire on our website. Its designed to collect info to help us try to see patterns in the issues dogs suffer with We're asking for everyone who has had or who still has a sick dog to give us a few minutes to answer the questions for us. You will need to re do it for each dog and if its something that's happening now you are able to go back and update the info. It comes up as a pop up or a link at the top under survey on the front page of our website. www.mdba.net.au Julie

We have now posted our first minor questionaire on our website. Its designed to collect info to help us try to see patterns in the issues dogs suffer with We're asking for everyone who has had or who still has a sick dog to give us a few minutes to answer the questions for us. You will need to re do it for each dog and if its something that's happening now you are able to go back and update the info. It comes up as a pop up or a link at the top under survey on the front page of our website. www.mdba.net.au Julie

We have now posted our first minor questionaire on our website. Its designed to collect info to help us try to see patterns in the issues dogs suffer with We're asking for everyone who has had or who still has a sick dog to give us a few minutes to answer the questions for us. You will need to re do it for each dog and if its something that's happening now you are able to go back and update the info. It comes up as a pop up or a link at the top under survey on the front page of our website. www.mdba.net.au Julie

We have now posted our first minor questionaire on our website. Its designed to collect info to help us try to see patterns in the issues dogs suffer with We're asking for everyone who has had or who still has a sick dog to give us a few minutes to answer the questions for us. You will need to re do it for each dog and if its something that's happening now you are able to go back and update the info. It comes up as a pop up or a link at the top under survey on the front page of our website. www.mdba.net.au Julie

We have now posted our first minor questionaire on our website. Its designed to collect info to help us try to see patterns in the issues dogs suffer with We're asking for everyone who has had or who still has a sick dog to give us a few minutes to answer the questions for us. You will need to re do it for each dog and if its something that's happening now you are able to go back and update the info. It comes up as a pop up or a link at the top under survey on the front page of our website. www.mdba.net.au Julie

We have now posted our first minor questionaire on our website. Its designed to collect info to help us try to see patterns in the issues dogs suffer with We're asking for everyone who has had or who still has a sick dog to give us a few minutes to answer the questions for us. You will need to re do it for each dog and if its something that's happening now you are able to go back and update the info. It comes up as a pop up or a link at the top under survey on the front page of our website. www.mdba.net.au Julie

Last time Im aware of them doing a revamp of the animal laws was about 12 months ago. This was when they bought in legislation which can see a breeder gaoled for 2 years and or a 12000 fine ,They also made it a possible charge if you walked a docked dog and couldnt prove it was docked legally. When we were in fighting them I didnt notice anything about you guys being bounced [didnt know anything about you then] but I reckon thats when it happened.

Depends what the charges are. The courts dont care who supports the person charged only if the law exists and if its proven they broke it .The penalty may be lighter but if its guilty of breaking the law its guilty. Understand what you are saying and agree this case would mainly be about the current law being broken, However if enough probable doubt is presented to show that the law is unjust maybe the judge would look at it in a different manner and if not we could still use the support for the long run in the getting the law changed for the sake of the sport and the breeds involved. Yep I agree the injustice of it all will be great to gather support but I still think if they are proven guilty they will wear it regardless of whether the judge thinks they deserved it or not. Im still holding some comments until I know what the charges are.

Depends what the charges are. The courts dont care who supports the person charged only if the law exists and if its proven they broke it .The penalty may be lighter but if its guilty of breaking the law its guilty.

Go to our website www.mdba.net.au and on the left hand side you will see links to take you to the award pages .One is "nominate someone ". If you get stuck give a yell.

Here, where I live now no-one can hear them but when I lived around neighbours I used to arm myself with a hose and spray em when ever they went at it. Within a wek or two all I had to do was stand with the hose on my hand and no one said a word ! Bugger the spray bottle that wouldnt work on this lot .

I havent seen any nominations for dog owners whose dog is Schutzhund trained or for anyone training them or winning anything with them. Nominations close 31.12.09. www.mdba.net.au Julie

are we talking Schutzhund dogs or the stereotypical 'attack' dogs here. I dont know how a macho numbnut who wants a vicious dog could survive teh intitial talking to before joining a schutzhund club let alone train their dog to be a DD. Again this is the misconception - people who backyard train are not training 'schutzhund' they are training 'attack' two very different things, two very different methods and two very different outcomes. Doesnt really matter what any of us are talking about because the law doesnt qualify it. It puts them both in the same basket.It makes no allowance for Schutzhund training to be different or exempt. If you train one anywhere other than on a domestic animals registered premises when you are the owner or employed by them - you're gone. Makes no difference how well or how rotten you do it. Go straight to gaol.

are we talking Schutzhund dogs or the stereotypical 'attack' dogs here. I dont know how a macho numbnut who wants a vicious dog could survive teh intitial talking to before joining a schutzhund club let alone train their dog to be a DD. Again this is the misconception - people who backyard train are not training 'schutzhund' they are training 'attack' two very different things, two very different methods and two very different outcomes. Ah yes but herein lies some of the problem - A club is not classed a domestic animal business. The provision in the law is about where not who - stupid.

yes thats what I dont understand. Makes for rather a useless security dog no? Although I dont know if security dogs are all technically considered 'trained' if you get my drift. So identify the issues. You're not going to get it all your own way unless there is a system in place to know who is training them correctly and keeping them under control effectively when they are, because the people making the laws and the public [ voting currency] dont Understand - but also there ARE some people who dont have a clue or who will train them this way for unethical reasons and who have and will make you all look bad. You have to look at the politics and who's in the game to begin the strategy which will eventually win or you loose before you kick off.

but dont most training facilities technically double as boarding kennels? Unless you are just having obedience classes on your property a trainer that works from home etc is not technically an animal business since they do not have animals on premises in a commercial manner. So if you are having dogs stay at your facility you would be considered a boarding kennel? Yes but what if I want to run training sessions and train these dogs for a living and I dont want them to stay on my premises? Where is the provision for this in the law. That is a restriction of trade.

Yes Ive no doubt that someone would have said something and there is much going on in Victoria that Id rather not speak of on a public forum which complicate things more than in other states. But ,even though I very much understand the emotion and the frustration stuff like that shouldnt be put in writing. The first smell they get of rednecks or cowboys will make em run a mile and they will simply give no credibilty to anything that comes next.

O.K. I dont see any provision there for training facilities and given that a fair case could be made to the ACCC that people may be done out of being able to make a living and that this is a discrimminatory restriction of trade because people who are traing dogs to do other things dont have to be one of these places - If you could make a case that training these dogs in this manner is a way you make your living and that the restrictions on where they are able to be trained is preventing you from being able to do this you would at least be able to have the approval of premises considered which dont fit into a pet shop, shelter or breeder category. You see it seems the activity isnt illegal just where they are trained but if no-one can get approval unless they fit into one of these spots it restricts trade as long as its a business and not a hobby. If you make a good enough case the ACCC will fight them for you. - For Free.

Too bad about these two lines in that email. I think it is about time the pure breed dog people took a good look in there own backyard as there many people exploiting the dog for there own monetary gain and at the end of the day it is all us dog lovers that will suffer. Dear Helen, can I give you some advise for the future, please go out find out the facts before you listen to people that have no real knowledge or experience in an activity which they don't understand and are scared of because it looks dangerous. This is why dog people and dog issues are such soft targets and why laws get raced through without much of a whimper. It divides us. If you dont play the game you dont stand a chance. Writing that made the writer look and sound like a redneck and anything else in that email which may have been worth noting would have been discounted. Making the email public so it could be read by people who would make good allies didnt help the cause much either.Its one thing to be critical of the ANKC administration but that email takes a swipe at the members and given the chance the members would be behind you and you have a better chance of swinging them because of the members pressuring them than you do by shooting blanks. Regardless of what you think about other dog groups and dog sports or people involved in politics or similar -trying to do what needs to be done will mean having to play a bit the same way they do. Kissing butts, piddling in the right pockets,networking etc and not beating too many at any one time publicly over the head. The ANKC have about 37000 members and you just chased half of them off.

Sorry - Is this act saying that its O.K. to have or own a dog trained in this manner as long as its only trained at a registered domestic animal business premises? Just want to understand what is and what is not allowed and where before I start yelling.

I think this is at least some of the relevent legislation: Thanks Luke - you're good at this. Someone check me - Is this saying you are able to train attack dogs if you own a registered animal business? You're going to have to go a bit slowly for me as I havent looked at this before. It reads to me that as long as you apply for a domestic animal business and they give approval for you to do this activity that you're free to do so ? Makes me feel that Im missing the point because Im not seeing anything telling me the activity is illegal.

Could someone point me to the exact wording of the legislation and how do we find out what these people have been charged with? Did this all come in around October?.