Steve

Yes you write to the minister but by that time you're either found to be or charged as a crimminal. Your dogs are gone and your reputation is done in and what you have to say is seen as sour grapes.The minister can if he sees fit ask for info in regard to your matter from the RSPCA but he has no access to any internal goings on and just waiting on some kind of answer as asal had to can take months or years. It would be great, wouldnt it, if the report which came back to the minister was given by alanglen who was until recently a senior vet for for the RSPCA and the very person who would have been asked about the situation. The owner had dogs on her filthy farm which she tortured and so if she has only been able to be charged with taking them to a dog show she got off lightly - right? Its already been said right here in writing! If we hadnt already been in and told the other story and already organised some legal help - how do you think that would have turned out? Do you think those dogs would be coming home after Friday, would anyone care? Would anyone help Judy- she would have just been getting what she deserved - right? She got us doubting it - I mean surely there must be something more to the story why else would they seize the dogs. What sort of response would you expect from the minister?

When you come into someone's castle and take their family away people are going to get ticked off. When you put their family to sleep without counsel, any kind of approval or any process or a second opinion, say what you will about their condition and destroy the evidence people are going to get ticked off. When you take away a person's power and give them no way to protest over their treatment and that of their animal's people are going to get ticked off.When you make it so expensive to try to stick it out until you get to a court case which makes people plead guilty when they aren't people are going to get ticked off. When you allocate so much power to a group which leaves the people they are dealing with in such an unequal situation with the potential for corruption especially when they are actively working against the very groups they are policing it has created a huge problem. How on earth do you justify a situation where an older lady who has never done anything illegal in her life is sitting peacefully in her home watching the telly surrounded by her healthy,clean, well groomed, well fed canine family and a team of cops, RSPCA, vets, and camera crew arrive at the door demanding entry, searching her home and pushing for answers.She is alone, intimidated and frightened and because she has attended dog shows with some of her dogs which have been debarked her animals are bundled up and taken out. No one will tell her where they are, she has no clue what her rights are and how she will defend her family.Sure she broke the law but its not equal to an accusation of terrorism or drug trafficking, she isnt stubbing her cigarettes out on them and yet thats how she has been treated. If they came to check if the dogs had been debarked and knew they needed an expert witness why didnt they bring him with them so the dogs didnt have to be locked up some place no one can know about for 2 weeks? You take away her privacy, dignity and her family but worse you take away her sense of security and her rights. People who love their animals want to be with them when they are being examined, or placed in stressful and different situations. Why didnt they her go with them? Why didnt they offer her the ability to have her own vet there to be a witness for their examinations? Why didnt they just say where they were going with them? We all know that while those dogs are some place where their owner cant even know where they are any number of people could have said almost anything about them and the owner is a sitting duck. Worms so bad they had to be pts, filthy, dirty un groomed, too skinny , eye infections, ear infections, dehydrated, and before you know it there can be a stack of cruelty and neglect charges if the vet has an ego problem or the ranger hates their hair colour. Even if that NEVER , ever happened and every single case was fair and we could be sure that there wasnt some one involved who was unable to deal fairly - Its not SEEN to be fair and until it is people are going to be frightened, outraged, paranoid and sooner or later they will revolt. Give us a system where we FEEL we have the ability to be heard and defend ourselves and our animals and where we dont FEEL threatened and helpless against goliath. Whether we have that already or not it's not counted because we dont FEEL like we do and Thats why people get so upset about the RSPCA policing animal welfare. Justified or not - that's the way it is and it gets worse every day.

Mita - If you know how people can report what they feel is unfair treatment to an independent body please tell us.

I mean here- photos not copying - :p

And the second one here ?

the bottom one here ?

And the second one here ?

And this one?

Awesome is it possible for us to use this for our big fat book of dogs ?

This isnt teething and there are several things which may be the cause. Before much can be done you need a proper diagnosis so you have a better understanding of what you are dealing with. Ive got some ideas but the vet is the best place to go for now. When you get a diagnosis there is much we can talk about but whenever this sort of stuff happens its about the dog's immune system so anything you can do to assess things which may be compromising that is important. I would definitely not get her another vaccination or have her desexed. Have a look at your home and consider where she is sleeping and playing.There are obvious things like food, grass , carpet shampoos etc but once the immune system is under pressure even things like drafts, high or low climatic temps,visitors pretty well anything can impact. Ive a couple of questions but Ill wait until after you have seen the vet again. Ask for skin scrapings to be taken too.

Neither of those silly examples of yours. But, in answer to your question . In this country. those two are the main types of Apbt breeders. So what is your definition of an Apbt suitable as a family pet. Because the closest thing to a purebred APbt in this country is one that is line bred from game dogs, either direct from game dogs or a couple pf generations away. Unless your definition of an Apbt is a BYB breeder with not account of his dog's pedigree, their dogs may be more placid and friendlier but likely to be more mixed and not as close to an Apbt. And the definition you gave of an ideal breeder. How many breeders both registered and not fit the profile? They number about 1000 now.

Neither of those silly examples of yours. But, in answer to your question . A reputable APBT/Amstaff/Rotti/ANY BREED breeder is: 1. One who at all times, would have a goal of breeding to improve, restore or develop the breeds via a process of selection over successive generations and, before breeding a litter, would give serious and equal consideration to construction, temperament, health and soundness, in the choice of breeding stock. Will always bear in mind that aggression and nervousness form no part in temperament and character of any dog. Should aim all breeding to the improvement of the breed 2. No bitch would be mated without due consideration as to the well being of the bitch and her offspring. 3. Would not deliberately in-breed with mother to son, father to daughter or brother to sister unless he/she has clear & substantive reasons. 4. Would agree that he/she will never provide false information regarding the parentage of the litter. 5. Would not breed a litter unless he/she were certain of finding good homes for the puppies. As the owner of stud dog(s) he/she would make it very clear to the bitch owners of the commitment and facilities necessary to rear a litter. Would never allow any puppy to leave the premises to go to a new home before the age of 8 weeks. No puppy should be sold without having had its first vaccination and regular-worming treatments and would provide documented evidence of such to the purchaser. 6. Would never supply a puppy without a diet sheet. A full and accurate puppy care sheet(s) would be supplied to the purchaser, outlining health care information, heartworm control, flea control, reasons for desexing, microchip information, etc. 7. Would provide a full and detailed health record of any puppy he/she sell's to the purchaser showing a complete history of that pup from the date of whelping to the date of delivery. And will keep breeding and health records for all dogs in care. 8. Would provide a written health guarantee for every pup bred and sold. Provide on going support and advice for the life of the pup. 9. Never knowingly sell any puppy/adult dog to laboratories, pet shops or dealers in dogs or to person's known to sell stock to any of the above. Shall not provide any stud services to such persons (a dealer is defined as any person who regularly buys stock for sale at a profit). 10. Screen prospective buyers for suitability and shall fully advise them of the characteristics of the dog as a breed stressing the necessity for care, grooming and ample exercise. Register all pups with the breed's registering body unless they are disqualified from registration due to a non recognized colour. Supply the buyer with the dog's registration papers from the breeds' registrar unless this is not practicable in which case would provide an endorsed copy to the buyer . would also clearly state whether the puppy is on limited register or full register (where applicable) and explain the benefits and restrictions of that register. 11. Would never allow a puppy or adult which has any apparent physical defects or which shows definite departure from the Breed Standard to be knowingly sold without the buyer being made aware of such defects and its possible consequences. Will only sell puppies and adults, which, to the best of his/her knowledge and belief are in good health at the time of sale. 12. Would impress on the buyer that they should contact me in the event of any problem arising with the puppy or adult and make every effort to be of assistance in these circumstances. In the case of a dog needing to be re-homed, will take full responsibility to assist as much as possible in achieving this end and will accept the return of that dog at any age if this in any way possible. 13. Advertising would be strictly factual. I will not use misleading exaggeration or unfounded implications of superiority. would not promote the dogs as something they are not. 14. Would refrain from making negative or malicious statements about other breeder's, their dogs or practices. 15. Would be co-operative in any measures aimed at eradicating hereditary diseases or genetic defects. Would seek information and understanding of genetic diseases and defects and use this understanding in my breeding program. Would commit themselves to a positive breeding program aimed at eradicating such hereditary diseases or defects known or suspected within my breed. 16. Would be honest and forthright in notifying any genetic or heritable diseases found to be in any dogs I have bred and pass on any information required to help breeders make necessary choices in their breeding program. 17. Would not breed a litter unless he/she had the time and facilities to devote proper care and attention to the rearing of the puppies and to the well being of the dam. 18. Any dog/puppy in his/her care would receive immediate professional attention should it become ill. 19. Would continue to offer helpful assistance to any puppy/adult dog buyer as long as such assistance is required. 20. All dogs in the breeders care would be adequately housed in clean, comfortable and weatherproof accommodation with a minimum of 2 hours off lead and exercise with appropriate stimulation and companionship per day. 21. All dogs in care would be under control at all times, housing and exercise areas kept clean and all care taken to limit possible disturbance to neighbours. 22. Would lead by example and advocate responsible dog ownership. 23. Would microchip all animals as prescribed by law. All follow up paper work will be fulfilled and sent to the appropriate canine authority. 24. Would exhibit and promote excellence in the discipline and practice of dog breeding. 25. Would encourage the exchange of knowledge, of technical, practical and ethical matters between breeders. 26. Would act and advise in accordance and within the parameters of his/her experience. Thanks for the free plug for the MDBA Rottieadora. Its a good code isnt it? www.mdba.net.au

If someone pays $3000 for a bulldog puppy in this country then there is a bulldog pup in this country thats worth $3000. No one is saying anyone should breed dogs to make money but what sort of idiot would deliberately try to loose money in order to make other people think they are more likely breeding for the betterment of the breed ? if they spend x amount of money and they can get more of that x amount of money back why in heavens name do you want them to do it and loose money if they dont have to. Even charities dont operate to loose money!

Whilst I agree wholeheartedly with your first point - the price of a puppy doesn't even begin to reflect the amount of time, research, money, effort and a lot of times, sheer blood, sweat & tears that a breeder has invested in that puppy - what do you believe driving that price upwards will achieve? I see the pedigreed purebred struggling now - we are trying to contend with the DD breeders, the "purebred but no papers" backyarders, the "registered but dodgy" breeders and the "pedigree dogs are inbred & unhealthy" brigade - by making puppies more and more expensive, are we simply placing them further out of reach? How can we be placing them further out of reach when pet shop cross bred mongrels are getting more? Couple of years ago My beagles were selling for $850 and a pet shop in Penrith was selling them for $1500 and sold them all in 2 days! We're not breeding enough of them to fill the demand so BYB and DD breeders are filling the void and if someone wants all of the great stuff a good purebred breeder provides its worth saving for.If we get to a point where there are more then the price will come down because the demand is lower - though thats pretty unlikely. The pedigreed purebred is struggling because less people are breeding them not because we cant find homes for them. What do I think it will achieve? People being able to breed great dogs without having to be independently wealthy and not having to be poverty stricken. I agree that the price of a pup bred by a good breeder cant reflect its value but why anyone expects a breeder to keep prices low and go broke as some kind of community service - make a pup more affordable for someone who wants a pet and have their families go without to do it - even though they can get more is beyond me. If you want to have reputable ethical registered purebred breeders breeding great dogs into the future they are accountable for then telling them that they have to take a vow to be poor and lose money deliberately to help poor people to own them perhaps the best place to recruit new breeders is at a monestary - but even they wont loose money - they would fundraise to cover their expenses.

Its not about the size of the dog or the yard - its about what breed matches your lifestyle. If you know the breed characteristics and management issues and they suit you -where's the problem. I know people who have hundreds of acres that have their dogs tied up all day or locked in small pens.

This is a main register pup. One which can be shown and bred with and in my opinion if they are $3000 thats too cheap. Its got me why everyone who wants us to do a great job of breeding healthy happy animals in limited numbers with all of the testing and work and sacrifice that goes with it also want us to remain poverty stricken as some test as to whether we are good breeders. Buyers want us to refund money if something goes wrong in years to come which may have a genetic component even though we knock ourselves out trying to avoid them and they may be impacted by what happens after the pup goes home. We are expected to feed the best food, supply the best accommodations, provide the best vetting and testing ,be there for ever, for support and advice, get educated, be members of groups and breed clubs, attend shows, take anything that has the slightest problem which may cause an issue for future litters out of our breeding programs and start again. Not breed them till someone who knows diddly about breeding dogs says we can, dont bred them more often that someone who knows diddly about breeding dogs says we can, dont breed them past an age that someone who knows diddly about breeding dogs says we can, get beaten up by media and animal rights and keep our prices down even though we can get higher prices, keep our houses well maintained and squeaky clean so we can be inspected by people who want to look at our lounge rooms to see where the pups were living,put all of our own personal issues on hold if a puppy buyer needs to talk to us for years to come - sheesh! I think every purebred breeder who is doing it right should immediately raise their prices and if they need help to sell their pups at that price - join the MDBA and we will help them. I dont want anyone ever to breed a litter of pups to make money but Ill be damned if I can see sense in anyone going out of their way to loose money either and its time we wore our prefixes with pride and didnt feel guilty or answerable if we can get higher prices for our pups. When supply is getting more limited every day with more and more breeders leaving to either breed non papered or leave breeding and more will leave in droves - especially in the BB breed - if we are still able to breed them , demand and costs are getting higher and we are expected to be more accountable for years to come if they can get the money then they should go for it while they can. Next litter they may looose the house.

It is crazy to assume that dogs have evolved to be able to eat these kinds of diets in a short amount of time. Evolution of physiological and anatomical issues take hundreds of thousands, if not, millions of years. Dogs are not omnivores by choice – sure they eat other things because they are opportunists and they will eat anything to survive but they have evolved as and still are very much carnivores. All of the dog’s traits have allowed it to survive and thrive on carnivorous diets for millions of years. Domestic dogs' ancestors roamed the earth millions of years before the appearance of the first human! The Timber Wolf is said to be the domestic dog's closest living relative. Their diet is comprised of 55% white-tailed deer, 16% beavers, 10% snowshoe hares, 19% rodents and other small mammals. The wolf and the wild dog ingest almost the entire carcass of the prey they catch. This means that there is a small amount of pre-digested vegetation eaten when the stomach (tripe) of an herbivore is eaten. Given the choice, feral domestic dogs eat small animals as their main source of food. During hard climate etc when meat is harder to come by, wolves and wild dogs become more opportunistic, eating eggs, fish, fermenting fruit, seeds, nuts and grasses to supplement the meat that they are able to catch. This is another survival tactic but dogs can’t sustain themselves forever on these limited food sources. Let’s look at the science The dog's anatomy and physiology clearly shows it as a predator and it can’t move its jaw sideways as animals can which choose to eat plant foods. This is important and it can be related to commercial food as well as vegan. The major issues today are the ones relating to the digestive system. The stomach is large and muscular, making it possible to eat large amounts of food in a small time span. The stomach is highly acidic, which allows for ingestion of whole bone pieces that can be broken down into a powder-like substance quickly. This acidity also allows a dog to eat large amounts of harmful bacteria without being affected. This provides dogs with the ability to eat rotting carcasses in times of need, a good survival mechanism. The pancreas of the dog is much smaller than a human's and only contains a fraction of the enzymes that we produce. This means that the food items that a dog eats must come complete with the active enzymes needed to bind with stomach acid and break down food for assimilation. In dogs, meat enables this process to occur naturally. Cooked food and grain are highly indigestible for any canine species, since cooked food contains only dead enzymes and dogs don’t make the enzymes needed to break down grain. For example, Amalayze is found in the saliva of humans and is used to break down starch in the mouth. Canine saliva does not contain enzymes and is only used as a lubricant for swallowing large pieces of food. The intestine and the bowel of a carnivore are much shorter than a human's, allowing for quick absorption and elimination of food and waste products so bacteria don’t get a foothold. Carnivores have also evolved to absorb almost all of the water content from prey food. This allows a dog on a meat diet to be hydrated for long periods without needing as much water. A dog on a meat diet takes in heaps less water in comparison to one on commercial food. They have no nutritional requirement for grain. Dogs do not produce enzymes to digest grain or obtain nutrients from it. This is a scientific fact. The food sources present in a vegetarian diet may be able to be made to have the nutrients [vitamins and minerals , proteins etc but the digestion and absorption and assimilation is completely different. The dogs are not actually absorbing adequate nutrients from the food they are eating. There are also no long term studies conducted for how these foods affect dogs over their entire lifetime. Usually test trails are short, under 1 year and are conducted on younger animals. The really - really big deal is the Enzymes . Enzymes are substances which make life possible. They are needed for every chemical reaction that occurs in a mammal’s body. Without enzymes, no activity at all can take place. No vitamins, minerals, or hormones can do any work without enzymes. There is no combination of proteins or any combination of amino acids or any other substance which will give enzyme activity. There are proteins present in enzymes. However, they serve only as carriers of the enzyme activity factors. Mammals inherit a certain enzyme potential at birth. This is a limited supply of activity factors or life force which must last a lifetime. It's just as if you inherited a certain amount of money. If the movement is all one way - all spending and no income - you will run out of money. The faster the use up of the supply of enzyme activity, the quicker it will run out. Regardless of the species, the faster the metabolic rate, the shorter the lifespan - This is a scientific fact . Other things being equal, dogs live as their body has enzyme activity factors to make enzymes from. When it gets to the point that they can't make certain enzymes, then their life ends. Whenever a food is COOKED, the enzymes in it are 100% destroyed. If the right enzymes are in the food the dog eats, they would do some or even a considerable part of the work of digestion by themselves. However, when the dog eats cooked, or plant food, this forces the body itself to make the enzymes needed for digestion. This depletes the body's limited enzyme capacity if the body is overburdened to supply many enzymes to the gastric juice, pancreatic juice and intestinal juice, then it must use what it would use for the production of enzymes for other purposes. How can the dog’s body also make enough enzymes to run the brain, heart, kidneys, lungs, muscles and other organs and tissues? Because the pancreas of the dog is so small, it has to work really hard to break down plant foods. This means that pancreatic enzymes are depleted quickly and used to break down food with inadequate nutritional content. In turn, the body uses another survival tactic: it begins to absorb enzymes and other essential nutrients from its own tissues to maintain the equilibrium of the body. This can only remain in balance for so long and it will result by a shortening of the life span. Plant food is also systemically dehydrating to dogs, as their bodies are designed to absorb water from their prey. To compensate, they have to drink large amounts of water to stay hydrated. This puts extra strain on the kidneys. Raw Meat, tripe, bone, organ are filled with the enzymes needed to properly digest and assimilate nutrients. Raw meat diets have fed the order Carnivore for 60 million years.

Sorry 1st of November

They think she will be due around the first of October which would have made her about 4 weeks gone when she had the ultrasound if she is pregnant.She was sitting with her tummy on the cool concrete today and she looked like a beached whale.

This one was definitely mated.I cant feel anything moving but she feels pregnant.

When you guys have ultrasounds done on your bitches for seeing if they are pregnant is she scanned lying down or standing? Ive got a lab bitch here which was mated before she arrived here in foster care. She had an ultra sound before she was flown down and it showed no pregnancy and the vet explained her teats etc as a phantom. If this is a phantom she sure is good at it and she is growing more round every day. Everything I know about how dogs look when they are pregnant is telling me she is and Ive seen a lot of them. One breeder of labs has told me she may be pregnant but the scan was done wrong because she was laying on one side and its more usual to do a scan on a lab standing. I guess time will tell if she is pregnant but thought Id ask the queston here. I had visitors here 2 days ago - all experienced breeders and every one said "that bitch is pregnant"

I have a lab bitch here which I picked up off the plane about 5 days ago. Her elbows are 0.0. and her hips are 1.4 .She was thought to be in whelp so was taken to have an ultrasound last Monday.Ultra sound says no pups but she is putting on weight right before my eyes and looks pregnant to me. What are the odds? I dont know the breed. Looks like I'm in for a crash course. The survey is showing hips, elbows and skin problems -eyes and hearts are only about 1% less than most other breeds. That may change but there are almost 100 repsondents in this breed so far.

I just think that there is room to explore epigenics and nutrigenomics as well as genetics and I think there is a danger in putting focus on testing for problems and blaming genes based on genetics and nothing else. Its been proven that its possible to change genes and that can be passed on from the mother so one way of looking at it is that a dog may have a high risk of developing [say] HD and we shouldnt try to change that via diet because it covers the predisposition and we are not breeding away from it but if you come at it from the other view that I am able to change the gene and make it no longer exist which can be passed to its off spring then covering it up is rubbing it out and I think thats the danger in just looking at it based on what seems to be the main focus with scoring and scanning. If you look at these two things tracheal collapse and patella issues and see what they have in common from a nutritional perspective its worth a look. Same as MVD and SM - are we able to approach them from a dietary look over consecutive litters while they are searching for a gene. Anyway I love this stuff and dont want to cut of my ability to learn because Im not prepared to explore and poke around a bit now and then. This survey is giving me food for thought and thats all for now but because of my interest in nutrition its sparked my interest.

Given this appears to be late onset and not something the dog is born with and nor is the patella issue - Im interested. http://www.naturalnews.com/024133_Chi_genes_health.html In a small study, the researchers tracked 30 men with low-risk prostate cancer who decided against conventional medical treatment such as surgery and radiation or hormone therapy. The men underwent three months of major lifestyle changes, including eating a diet rich in fruits, vegetables, whole grains, legumes and soy products, moderate exercise such as walking for half an hour a day, and an hour of daily stress management methods such as meditation. After the three months, the men had changes in activity in about 500 genes -- including 48 that were turned on and 453 genes that were turned off. The activity of disease-preventing genes increased while a number of disease-promoting genes, including those involved in prostate cancer and breast cancer, shut down, according to the study published in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. "It's an exciting finding because so often people say, 'Oh, it's all in my genes, what can I do?' Well, it turns out you may be able to do a lot," Ornish, who is also affiliated with the University of California, San Francisco, said in a telephone interview. "'In just three months, I can change hundreds of my genes simply by changing what I eat and how I live?' That's pretty exciting," Ornish said. "The implications of our study are not limited to men with prostate cancer." The idea that someone who is an alcoholic, overweight or has serious diseases being caused by faulty genes goes against the almost countless stories of people who were told that yet somehow managed to heal themselves with diet, exercise, nutrition, breathing, meditation and other lifestyle changes that are well within their control. Once DNA was mapped and began to be studied in the 1950's by Crick and Watson and many other scientists, some started to relate the control the genes have upon various physical traits to emotional traits such as behavior, as well as to various mental and emotional disorders. As they started to test people who were alcoholics, had cancer, asthma, diabetes and just about everything else, they saw a common denominator in that these people many times had the gene for each of those diseases turned on or corrupted. Well, as is typical with western medicine, they take the symptom of the disease and mistake it for the cause of the disease itself. This is done all the time with the germ theory of disease as they're always looking to blame colds and illnesses on some bacteria or virus. What they never tell you is that when the organs are kept strong and healthy and the body has all the nutrients that it needs in the true proper amount, which is not the so called RDA, then it's nearly impossible for a person to get sick via the normal germs in the atmosphere that we're all exposed to every day. Many studies and tests have shown that when people who lived a healthy lifestyle of exercise and a good diet high in fruits and vegetable, and those who were out of shape and lived a more sedentary lifestyle were exposed to the same amount of a cold virus, nearly all the active healthy people were immune or had greatly reduced symptoms and the time they were sick was also significantly reduced. Stories abound of people curing themselves of the supposedly incurable diseases that we know. I'm reminded of a story of a woman who became about 100lbs overweight and developed asthma, diabetes and heart disease. She used to be rather athletic and fit before some personal tragedies caused her to delve into food for comfort. She got herself genetically tested and it showed that she had defective markers for asthma, diabetes and heart disease. She resolved herself to her condition for a time, but after five years of being overweight and feeling terrible, including taking various medications for her conditions, she got sick of it and decided to start working out and eating much better, back to a fruit and vegetable diet. After about eighteen months, she knocked off nearly all her weight and hadn't felt that good in years. She decided to have her DNA tested again and what did they find? That the "cause" of her problems, her supposedly faulty genetic markers in her DNA, were no where to be found.