Steve

Alright Ill bite.When you breed two breeds of dogs I didnt realise it was kind of like mixing paint.You know you ad a bit of white and you get less black and various shades of grey.I thought when you were playing with genetics you would get some with traits like Mum's and some with traits like dad's. If you wanted to breed dogs with less of one trait and be even partway confident of which bits were in there or watered down.I assumed you would have to select the dogs with lessened scenting drive over several generations. How do you get the beagle with less scenting drive rather than the cav with more? How do you know whether all of your pups turn out that way or not given that the scenting thing doesnt cut in properly until they are older? So is this true? Is scenting instinct simply lessened by mating a high scent dog with one with no scent? Will every puppy in this match have less scenting ability than a beagle ?

Steve, I hope you're attending the "Building better dogs" seminar at Monash University (the invite is on another thread). I am sure you will be interested in listening to Vanessa Rohlf's talk on "What makes people responsible owners?" Vanessa would be more than happy to discuss with you her research and this could open the doors to future collaborations with our organisations. Regards, Tammie It was Tammie's research coupled with some recent media events which made me consider the same questions. Yes I will be attending and Yes I am looking forward to speaking with her about this.Im very interested in how she went about narrowing it down. There are several issues in this line we are involved in because of the programs we are developing for pet owners.

thats O.K. But it still would have been cheaper from us.

7. Rescuer of the Year Anna Faulkner - Silky Rescue Amanda Booth - Sharpei Rescue Raelene Stewart – ARF MDBA Dog Owners Choice Awards Proudly Sponsored by Dogzonline

If you're not in a hurry I can order one for you when we put our next order in - it will be way under that.

The seminar doesn't do much for welfare (sic) or I suppose it depends on how you define welfare - whether you genuinely care about canine welfare or whether your interest spurns from an animal rights ticket. Say what? I run a boarding kennel. I get pedigree, DD, BYB ('purebred' but not pedigree), and oops litter derivations in more-or-less equal numbers. Some of them (from each category) are clearly unhappy, or clearly make their owners and/or their owner's neighbours unhappy through temperament/behavioural traits. Too excitable. Demand too much stimulation. Dig holes, bark, chew everything, destroy their dog beds, even a few who deliberately crap in their beds or pee in their feeding dishes. Some interact poorly with other dogs. I am not saying there is anything wrong with these dogs. Many of them would have been great working dogs with huge stamina and high intelligence. The problem is that they have ended up in suburban backyards, and they don't fit into the place they've ended up. You may call it 'dumming down' . . . although sometimes low drive doesn't mean 'dumb'. But whatever words are used . . . I think it advisable that there is realistic understanding that most of the pups born -- that is, those who find caring homes -- will end up in the suburbs. Some temperaments/behavioural tendencies do better than others in the suburbs. Pedigree dog breeders need to recognise this in their breeding programmes . . . or else avoid placing pups as pets in suburban households. The converse may also be true . . . if you want to breed working dogs, you may want to selectively breed out couch potatoes with mild drive. The point is, breeding for temperament is important and improvement of the science behind breeding for temperament can serve us all. In my experience as a breeder, many behavioural traits are hereditary. I have often watched veryspecific behaviors such as pawing in a cute way to get attention, having very high food drive, or being ultra-broody and lactating when there are pups around, pass from mother to daughter, sometimes for several generations. As a pedigree dog breeder, I would like to have a better grip on behavioural inheritance. As someone that boards dogs, I wish there were better understanding and management Its my experience that PEDIGREE dog breeders already know this and this is why they take such pains to educate the buyer and ensure they know what they are getting.Its also why they choose the dogs they do for their breeding programs.They know this because they know the breed characteristics and their pedigrees BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN tracking this and breeding this for several generations - Something only purebred breeders can do. Because of the fact that all of us are different and we all have different ideas and needs as to why we choose the breeds we do.Are you seriously trying to say that you believe that its possible to identify dna to help us decide which is the best to have floating around in a dog to make it more suitable as a companion? Some science which will tell us which male dogs are going to poop in their water bowls when its a natural instinct for male dogs to do this to spread their scent? I love it that one of my boys poops in his bowl. I have one for water and one he uses as a toilet. I clean out the toilet twice a day and never have to pick up poop all over the yard? A companion for who? The reason we have purebred dogs is because each is more suited to different needs. The science is already there if you're looking at purebreds. All you have to do is look at the predictibility of breeds to know what behaviour to expect and its why we are all against choosing a dog you have little clue about what it takes to live with . Its why we want people to talk with the breeder and not some pet shop spotty teenager with no clue about specific behavious which can be expected etc. Simple if you want a better companion - choose a breed that suits your lifestyle. Save everyone the expense of trying to find some magic formula in a cross bred mutt.

No, because I don't pass as a responsible breeder :p Seriously I am very wary of definitions that try to encompass individuals .. you and I know that Jake is in the perfect home and that's all that matters Im seriously very wary of labels - especially ones that start out being good ones intended to lift the bar which are promoted to being better for the dog's welfare- whether that be about responsible dog owners or dog rescuers or breeders.

No - dogwise is much quicker than amazon.

If you do a search on Bennett and her speakers Tammie, Mia, Vanessa etc you will find most of the material and ethos that will be presented at the seminar. What makes people responsible owners you will see all goes back to the dogs temperament and suitability for modern life. What you will be presetned with at the seminar is a complete menu for the soccal engineering course they would like you to follow. Psychologist Pauline Bennett is leading a Monash University team in developing a diagnostic tool to match dog breed with owner. Dr Bennett said research showed that most people loved their dogs ''to bits'' but that was not always the case. ''People buy dogs on the basis of how cute they are as puppies and they don't think about the fact they are going to have to live with them for 15 years,'' she said. The university's Anthrozoology Research Group, made up of psychologists, veterinarians and zoologists with an interest in canines, has already developed a test. It assesses the financial cost and emotional and practical downsides of having a dog in the house. There are questions such as ''How often do you feel that looking after your dog is a chore?'' and ''How often do you tell your dog things you don't tell anyone else?'' The study of 1016 people, by Vanessa Rohlf, a PhD student in psychology, shows the more activities an owner and dog do together, the more responsible the owner is in caring for the pet. ''The more they interacted with their dog, the more likely they were to annually vaccinate their dog and the more likely they were going to groom it,'' Ms Rohlf said. ''A lot of councils tend to restrict areas that people can take their dogs to ... maybe councils should look at relaxing bylaws.'' Sydney's Lord Mayor, Clover Moore, is promoting a controversial policy to expand areas where people can let their dogs off the leash. A doggie matchmaker brought Erskineville woman Megan Rutledge and her standard poodle Roxy together. ''The breeder did personality testing on me and the dog and matched my personality to her, asking questions like 'How will it fit into your family home?''' she said. Interesting - I interact with my dogs all day every day and I dont vaccinate them yearly as I believe that is not good for them and I have the research to back that up and I chose breeds I dont have to groom too often. Sometimes I feel looking after them is a chore too just as I do with my kids. OH OH !

Problem is tha once its defined they will make laws associated with it.

What title do you want? We have a reseller account with Dog wise and several hundred titles on hand.

One of the speakers at the Monash Uni Building better dogs seminar is speaking on "What makes people responsible Owners" based on her PHD research. That will be interesting.

Yes it is interesting and leads to several issues. For example. The RSPCA comes out and says lots about walking your dog - there are calls for penalties to be imposed if we dont yet I think Im very responsible and dont walk my dogs and many people I know who I would consider rsponsible dont walk their dogs off their property either. If for example there's a loon who lives on the corner who is irresponsible who lets his dog out and it poses a risk to mine if I take it out of the yard for a walk and it attacks mine - Am I responsible for taking it for a walk or irresponsible for taking it out where I know there is threat. If I have 2 acres fenced off which is safe for my dogs to run in and play together and I have lots of great stuff to keep them happy am I irresponsible because they dont get to walk beside me around the town on a leash ? What if when they are walking they find a snake and I knew that there is a fairly high risk that they will before I take them?

O.K. I think Im a pretty responsible dog owner but quite often I see things which others expect people to do with their dogs which I dont do.I also do things with my dogs which I think are a necessary part of being responsible dog owner that others dont. Kind of like being a parent I guess where I make decisions which I think are the best ones for my kids and thats different in many ways to other parents. I get a bit concerned when I see things which seem inconsequential on their own which have the potential to change things and take away some of our rights to make these kind of decisions without interference from government or welfare agencies. Kind of like raising the bar so that it becomes accepted that unless you do certain things in certain ways you are irresponsible and shouldnt own a dog.Many of these things begin under the banner of canine welfare and whats best for dogs but they have unintendd consequences which sometimes cause bigger problems. Id like to discuss here what everyone feels are the things which go into making someone a responsible dog owner. Ive a couple of reasons for this. One is to have a good start point for a further study, another because the MDBA has a membership level which is for responsible pet owners which includes people who have agreed to our code of conduct and people who have been given free memberships because they own a Breeder member or rescue member dogs and we are working on programs for them.Some of these are very experienced dog people but many are first time dog owners. There is no right or wrong answer. What do you think makes a responsible dog owner?

This would come in handy If you would like to ring me Pacers might be able to help - 0269276707

I will give this one more try before I go after speaking with the Taree groomers and vets to find someone. We need someone who is prepared to be a safety net for an 85 year old lady who is concerned that if something happens to her that her dog will be at home alone. All thats required is to give her your contact details so if she is in an accident or falls ill you can be contacted to ensure the dog is kept safe until Pacers can get in and give a hand. She has fair reason to believe that if anything does happen that her family will not do the right thing by her dog. The dog is a Japanese Spitz and is well looked after and very much loved with good manners. If any one in the Taree area could please let this lady know she isnt on her own if a disaster strikes we would be very much apreciative. Julie

I can't tell you how glad I am that you'll be there Steve. Would it help you if we all came up with the references to some of the studies we've been rattling on about? Definitely. Thank you. Julie

I understand why there were no outside invites. Its their party. Theres much more to discuss than who was or was not invited -Thats the least of our worries.

Im sure you will find that the ANKC and state orgs just as the MDBA have been doing for 6 years have been beating on everyone's door to get accepted onto advisory panels and committees. You have over simplified the situation and missed a rather large part to the issues.

Mike Goddard's abstract reads: Genetics of Dog Behaviour and Breeding Programs to Improve Canine Welfare The most important step in any breeding program is to decide on the objectives. Since most puppies sold become pets, the main objective should be to breed dogs that become successful pets. Two sets of traits contribute towards this – behavioural traits and health traits – and both of these also impact on the welfare of the dog. Some abnormalities are due to a single mutant gene such as progressive retinal atrophy (PRA). In many cases the mutant gene is recessive so a dog can carry the mutant gene but appear perfectly normal. In some cases there are DNA tests to detect such carriers. However most diseases are due to many genes and environmental factors (eg hip dysplasia and epilepsy). In these cases the best strategy is to estimate the overall genetic merit of the dog for each trait and select those with highest merit. This would be helped greatly by calculating estimated breeding values for each dog for each important trait but to do this would require that a central registry was kept of dogs' status for traits such as HD and epilepsy. Among behavioural traits, fearfulness, aggression and over excitability are undesirable traits. They are also controlled by many genes and by environmental factors and the best way to improve them is to select animals with desirable estimated breeding values for these traits. O.K. Nothing new there - what is the aim of the seminar.

Do you have any further info on exactly what topics Goddard is speaking on?

I wonder why not ? not high profile? May people don't know who they are??? the MDBA also isn't the representing body of pure breeders - the ANKC is? (not a criticism steve, just an pbservation...) Thats O.K. Im not bothered I dont mind not being a speaker. .

You mean going to the seminar, or being on the speaking list? I'm quite concerned about these studies, as was made quite clear in the other thread on it. If I can be there, I think it would be good to be able to listen and comment. going to the seminar- Cant be a speaker we ddnt get an invite.

Were representatives from the VCA, ANKC or MDBA invited to speak? That's a question for the Animal Welfare Science Centre. As mentioned above, two of the speakers are registered pure bred breeders. You're certainly all very welcome to attend. Which ones are registered purebred dog breeders?

The MDBA wasnt invited.