Steve

thats O.K. But if a breeder has - lets say- a thousand dogs and they regard the health and welfare of their dogs,breed them in good conditions with human interaction is that O.K.? Steve this is an extremely good exercise because so often we know something is not right but it is difficult to express why it isnt right. this makes us think Ill take time out to explain a little. Until I attended the seminar at Monash Uni and heard Kate Scoffeld speak regarding her puppy farm and the group she has put together to bring them in with a voluntary code of practice I had certain ideas and beliefs about puppy farming. It made me see that some of the solutions being presented not only wont work but have the potential to make more dogs suffer rather than less. With this new information Ive studied the current paper circulating via the RSPCA to regulate breeders and I personally think its missing a very large chunk of what its going to take to help the dogs caught up in all of this. I was very upset by what Id heard and kept poor Lesley up all night yelling about it and that feeling hasn't left me. Something needs to be done but we need to pull it ALL apart and re think what we have come to assume because thats not really whats happening and if we will simply watch on as more and more dogs suffer. Im tired of having to go in and fight against legislation thats being tendered that makes little real sense that gets through anyway and Im after us as dog lovers with no hidden agendas but what is best for dogs to make some suggestions and fight for realistic reform ourselves.

Thats good - except that current papers and state codes of practice push for exactly the opposite. They dont want free range dogs they want them in pens on concrete. Over the last 4 weeks a rescue group in NSW has been closed down because they didnt have concrete pens - all else was good except they had the dogs "free range" Can registered breeders be puppy farmers?

thats O.K. But if a breeder has - lets say- a thousand dogs and they regard the health and welfare of their dogs,breed them in good conditions with human interaction is that O.K.?

O.K. So lets explore these a bit. Why breeding every season when canine reproduction specialists say its BETTER for the bitch to breed every season? disclaimer - I dont breed a bitch every season because its against my codes of conduct not because I'm convinced its whats best for my dog. When do you think a bitch should stop breeding? You say "canine reproduction specialists say its BETTER for the bitch to breed every season" Sorry, but you really have to substantiate this statement with citations to peer-reviewed, published research in academic journals for me to believe this is the proven truth. No idea if that exists however, I have spoken with 4 different vets who specialise in canine reproduction, I have knowledge of another in Brisbane who is preparing a paper on it and Dr Hutchison a canine reproduction specialist in the states who feel there is no benefit to a bitch to not breed her on every season if she is in good condition. Personally Id love to see studies on this but who is going to do them? None of us can as its against our codes of conduct. The scientific fact is that whether a bitch is pregnant or not she secretes the same hormones. In a pregnancy the hormones released which cause the whelping and subsequernt rearing of the pups counteract the hormones battering her uterus. If you hold her off before you mate her she is more likely to have fertility issues. This is what Hutchison had to say http://www.doghobbyist.com/CanineRepro.html

Very Good - explore some of this -quote "rather than for the "maintenance and development of type, temperament and soundness of the breed" are you saying that anyone who breeds anything other than purebred is a puppy farmer, anyone who breeds anything other than registered purebreds is a puppy farmer or something else?

Law reform.

Good explore this What do you think should happen when a bitch cant be bred any more?

O.K. So lets explore these a bit. Why breeding every season when canine reproduction specialists say its BETTER for the bitch to breed every season? disclaimer - I dont breed a bitch every season because its against my codes of conduct not because I'm convinced its whats best for my dog. When do you think a bitch should stop breeding?

I not only hate that they do it but encourage it. Though I suppose when the biggest registered puppy exporter in the country is also the son of one of the directors of a CC its a bit of lost battle before you start!. They couldn't stop it even if they wanted to however, because its against the trade practices law to prevent people selling their product where ever and how ever they want. You wont clean up the sellers until you clean up the breeders. Raise the bar - join the MDBA - our members cant sell to pet shops or agents.

O.K. The MDBA have some things coming together to push for reform with breeding and rescue and to this end Id like to get some ideas and feedback as Im working through it all. This is the first of several - there are no right or wrong answers - Im just after what you think for now. Question.Definition of a Puppy Farmer. In under 50 words - please describe what you believe defines a puppy farmer in difference to anyone else who breeds puppies.

Oh but wait ! It gets even better. They have to have 20mins exercise each day.

Yep me too. Since when should a government interfere with the relationship between an owner and their vet on whats best for their dog. Mandatory desexing and debarking are two obvious examples. But what of some of the others? How often we can mate a bitch,how old she should be the first time, how long between litters and the oldest she should be are a couple more. Some puppy farmers mate a bitch when she is not in good condition - it makes no difference whether she had a litter 6 months ago or not if she isn't in good condition she shouldn't be mated but because some people who have no idea of what is best or if they do they don't care muck it up they bring in laws that prevent anyone being able to do it because someone says its better that way. Yet canine reproduction specialists say the opposite. Did you know in NSW that if you don't want to have your dog vaccinated each year in line with the vaccine manufacturers directions you have to have a written note from your vet saying you don't have to get a vacc each year? Thats not a guideline its a minimum standard at law ! So all of us who do research and knock ourselves out trying to make the best educated decisions on whats best for our dogs and listen to experts far more knowledgeable and recognised in their field than those who put this stuff into law have to have a note form our vet to stay within the law! What a bloody joke. Breeding dogs and cats. 8.2.1.6 Dogs must be vaccinated against distemper,hepatitis,parvo virus and canine cough in accordance with the manufacturers recommendations,unless with the written approval of a veterinary surgeon.

Id also like to ad Ive never had a dog debarked in my life however, I think its time we put a stop to this situation which has become fashionable in Australia. Someone says it cruel so before we know it there are laws stopping us. If they don't have evidence they make it up and because its them saying it then everyone follows like sheep. Basically if you advocate mandatory desexing but fight debarking - you're a hypocrite- plain and simple.

Yes I agree - It doesn't matter if it isn't perfect the fact that you have all cared enough to do this is very powerful and something she will cherish her whole life!

Good ! http://www.mdbapacers.org.au/attachments/0..._categories.pdf

But why shouldn't it be a first resort? Why is it O.K. to desex before you do everything else in your power to stop unwanted matings and wandering etc but not O.K. to have their voice lowered if its driving you nuts? Seriously do you know how many people will go to the extremes of what is needed to do to get permission to do the voice lowering before they simply say we cant stand it and send it to the pound? You assume people love their pets as if they are children and will do anything they can to find the answer regardless of what the consequences are along the way and thats just not true. If I have a barking dog why shouldn't I be able to simply say Id like its voice lowered before it becomes a problem ? Its a minor op with few risks and no negative side effects - what's the problem?

I told you so ! I told you so!

Yep I agree - but also seriously why do they think anyone in their right mind regardless of what they are doing is going to agree to have their addresses published? All they are doing is pushing more breeders to sell pups via a third party! How on earth do they honestly think that anyone is going to back them in when they have chosen the most stupid illogical steps to try to do something. This wont just apply to breeders anyway - it will apply to anyone including rescue who ever sells a dog. In the mean time they pick on animal husbandry issues such as the poor bitches who have to breed every season and they have no clue about whether that is in fact doing them good or harm. Canine reproduction specialists from all around the world are telling us its better for a bitch to mate every season if she is in good condition and the stuff they have in via codes of practice laws and guidelines put the poor bloody dogs on concrete all their lives! What gets up my nose the most is that it places us in a position where we have to end up fighting from the same side as the puppy farmers. We will not agree to having our addresses made public to the whole world and thats just a start. Id love to help the RSPCA sort out ways of stopping mass produced puppies or at least of ensuring dogs don't suffer any more than they have to while its being done but until they will listen to what breeders and private rescue have to say it's difficult to see how what they are proposing is going to stop the demand for puppies or anyone breeding them in the thousands each year. Its also time those brilliant young students slogging away in Australian universities did some serious study in their PHds which would enable us to see the truth of what each side is saying. There also has to be some cut off point - there's a big difference between someone who is breeding a thousand pups a year to someone who is breeding 50. Cant they see that if you make a breeder publish their address the big puppy farms are O.K. with that and its only people who breed a puppy now and then in their lounge room or who rescue a dog who don't want people arriving at their front door to see the animals before the have been screened to see if we want them at our front doors who they will stop? Cant they see we are knocking ourselves out trying to get breeders to sell the pups themselves and all this will do is push them to find a way to sell them where they don't have to say where they live ?Looks to me like they don't want to stop it they just want to know where they are. If that's their aim there is a much simpler way of doing that without infringing on people's rights and increasing the supply for pet shops.

If the dog has ever lived in Victoria before you can get it debarked anywhere you have to go through the process. You have go via the council usually because the neighbours are upset but theoretically you could speak with them and explain the dog is driving your family nuts and ask for them to put through the paperwork. Without this you cannot get the dog debarked. Then a vet that does them and is happy about it is the president of the local RSPCA in Wodonga. Are there other vets that perform this operation? Bloody hell, Wodonga is miles and miles up the road! Probably but they are hard to find. Look for an older vet some of the young ones have been brain washed.

If the dog has ever lived in Victoria before you can't get it debarked anywhere as you have to go through the process first even if you get it done interstate. You have go via the council usually because the neighbours are upset but theoretically you could speak with them and explain the dog is driving your family nuts and ask for them to put through the paperwork. Without this you cannot get the dog debarked. Then a vet that does them and is happy about it is the president of the local RSPCA in Wodonga.

I love it ! What would I call it if I wanted to put it into a competition?

People advocate yanking out testicles and a uterus because its easier to look after a dog and might prevent unwanted litters - research conclusively shows its not better for the dog's health and it prevents them from doing what they instinctively would do if they were entire. Thats O.K. its a major operation with long lasting possible side effects including less longevity.In many places they have even taken the option of taking this decision from the owner by bringing in compulsory desexing .Yet when we talk about a simple operation no less of an issue than a tonsillectomy in humans which an owner may decide on for the safety of the animal and sanity of themselves and neighbours everyone start beating their chest and screaming cruelty! You have to let the thing get to a point where everyone hates the dog and is yelling about it before you can get a council report to say you have had council visits and complaints re a barking dog,sign stat decs and be treated like a criminal in order to do what you should be able to decide between you and your vet - whats best for the dog! But its O.K. to tie em up 23 hours a day,keep em on concrete floors THEIR WHOLE LIFE or not socialise them with other dogs or people! Do you know how many dogs are sent to pounds and bumped off because they wont shut up? :D ;) ;) :D :D :mad :mad

We have received a nomination for Hollie Edwards in the Category Best Dog Trainer of the Year. Hollie does a fantastic job but she also does heaps of free work for several rescue groups in the Melbourne area! All about Hollie is here You can lodge your nominations here You dont need to be an MDBA member and the person you are nominating doesn't need to be a member either! Proudly sponsored by

Do you foster people, too? Sounds like winter heaven at your place. The dogs love her and so do the owners. She does a fantastic job!

I think we are sorted on the Greyhound Im just waiting to hear back from the foster carer and the owner to be sure its all well. Every one is happy - We have a great dog staying with a great foster carer and we hope the owner is able to find pet friendly accommodation without the stress.Thank you to everyone who offered but were too far away. Ill keep your details so when we get some closer to you we can yell at you. Julie