Aidan

Thankyou, Staranais, that was a very balanced and pragmatic overview of an issue with treating dog aggression. As far as I know there is no significant history of dispute, we had a discussion once where we disagreed on one point. Diablo asserted that dogs chose to disobey and be corrected, I disagreed making certain that I was not arguing against Diablo's choice of training methods and even explicitly stating that Diablo sounded very competent with his methods. This happened immediately after he slandered Mark Singer, so perhaps I should not have been so generous.

Are you "STILL" working on that aggression problem Aidan :D What on earth are you talking about? I can heel my dog past other dogs, I am just sensible about it and put her on the other side if appropriate. Your comment is highly inappropriate and ignorant of any facts. Why you would seek to discredit me is unfathomable, I have made no personal attack on you. I am not the first trainer that you have tried to discredit on this forum, what is your agenda?

Aiden if there is a playground behind the owner cannot control what happens when he is not there. That won't matter for the purpose of the exercise I suggested.

Definitely illegal to own, import or use in Tassie. I understand that even loose links sent in the mail will be confiscated.

Hi Bub, I didn't reply yesterday because I couldn't see what your problem was You are getting exactly what you are training - well done! Getting results very quickly has never been a problem in my opinion. Just accept that you have a "gifted child" and that you are a doing a good job. If you want some other ideas, take a look at the Zen exercises in the Training Levels program: http://www.dragonflyllama.com/%20DOGS/Leve...ninglevels.html Test them all in order from Level 1 upwards, you will soon identify any weaknesses (if there even are any). It sound like you have a lovely, motivated, handler-focused dog. This is the sort of dog who does well as a service dog, obedience competitor etc

Hi Staranais, I do it because I have two dogs. Another reason is that one is aggressive, so sometimes it is better to heel her on the right if we're passing someone with a dog on the other side, just an extra margin of safety.

It's good that you are taking this seriously and being responsible about it I would recommend you see a trainer or behaviourist who understands classical conditioning. What you are attempting is the right idea, but the child doesn't need to be giving the food to achieve this. For reasons of safety I would begin with something simpler, and with more distance between the child and the dog. You will also need to address all stimuli that are associated with this behaviour, such as sound, movement, appearance etc You have mentioned that your dog will bark at the sound of children on TV. To acquaint yourself with the process better it would be a good exercise to start with a recording of the sound of children, something that will elicit barking. Start with a low-level stimulus, turn the sound down, play a brief moment of the sound and give a treat. Repeat until the stimulus elicits food seeking, then turn the sound up a little. Through this process of systematic desensitisation you will develop a deeper insight into what you are looking for and how to achieve it. Consider that a professional should be able to offer you more certainty and make the process easier for you with their experience and insight. Even if you can do the job on your own it would be good to get peace of mind that someone with experience and knowledge has assessed the situation for you.

Your local vet should be able to advise prevalence of communicable disease in the area. In the absence of a specific warning (e.g "we are seeing a lot of pups with parvo at the moment") I would take the risk, but that is my personal opinion.

Interesting that you bring up Shaun Ellis, I have been following him since he was interviewed in Australasian Working Dog. Do you realise that he had to be the Omega in that pack? It was safest for him to be at the bottom of the bottom, the stress relief valve for the rest of the pack. There is nothing in what he did that would help you train a dog, or even a wolf, let alone be any sort of leader. As interesting as his experiment is, it doesn't actually teach us very much of practical value and I would seriously question it's scientific value also. I could stand to be corrected on that, but that is my opinion at this time.

edited to remove double-post

Well I don't know, I'm happy enough to tackle a 150kg Tongan in a game of rugby (and trust me, some rugby players DO bite!), and I work mostly with aggressive dogs, but I wouldn't try this. It doesn't make any sense to me at all, and I would say I have a good understanding of wolf behaviour (if that even counts). I can see HOW it works, but it's certainly not because it's something that wolves do naturally to each other. As Ian Dunbar once said, a wolf who FORCEFULLY pins another dog to the ground intends to kill it (I'm extrapolating to what you have suggested here). Can you imagine what this does to the psyche of our dogs? Yeah, it will work, but in the same way a psychopath with a gun pointed at me would be able to get me to do anything he asked! The images you posted did not demonstrate the point you were trying to make. The wolf with his mouth over the other's muzzle is not FORCING the submissive wolf to stay there, the submissive wolf is OFFERING. There is a huge fundamental gap between this and what you have been asserting. I understand that you have been taught this perspective, it has worked for you, and so you believe it to be true. But might I respectfully suggest that you are missing a part of the picture? If you google "L. David Mech" you will find a man who truly understands wolf behaviour because he has observed wolves, in the wild, for most of his life and taken detailed notes of what he has seen. He is, to my knowledge, the man who coined the term "alpha" in scientific circles - a move which he now regrets as it has caused so much confusion. He now calls the alpha male and female simply the "breeding pair", which has all the correct connotations and none of the incorrect connotations.

That's a good point, and somewhere along the line there's going to need to be a lot of time spent with suitable size-appropriate pups and other dogs, preferably in a controlled environment under the supervision of a competent professional.

Not for the dog's sake, but it can sometimes demonstrate to a person that their dog just did something really cool, and at other times it just makes me feel good to do it.

So are you saying that any dog that doesn't like puppies is exhibiting abnormally aggressive behaviour? There are degrees. What we might consider normal behaviour towards a 16 week old pup shown towards an 8 week old pup on a consistent basis would be definite cause for concern and I would urge a person in that position to consult an experienced trainer or behaviourist. If it's just a case of the older dog being a bit grumpy but not hurting the pup (emotionally, developmentally or physically), then that would usually be OK. All dogs have the right to self-defence, but I'm pretty sure that was not what the OP was asking about. My replies until now were only in the context of the OP's original question.

The problem with that Aidan is that this dog will be so much bigger than the adult dog by that age. Some smaller dogs aren't going to be in the slightest bit effective curbing the excesses of a giant puppy. In fact Nate stands a very real chance of being hurt. I understand that, Tatsu is going to have to take the lead (as would ideally be the case in any pairing), and a good puppy class should demonstrate how to do this appropriately (you would hope). But Tatsu was expressing concern that Nate was not being "dominant" over the pup, which is completely normal. If Nate WAS doing this, I would have deeper concerns, it would be abnormally aggressive behaviour.

Sounds like a little cracker of a pup, learn how to turn the excitement on and off, it will make everything else easier!

At 8 weeks of age Sarge still has his puppy license and will appear to get away with murder. What happens around 16 weeks will be more telling, it is around this time that I would expect to see Nate start to lay down and enforce some firmer boundaries. If you are enrolled in a good puppy class the instructor should be able to help you with Sarge's dog-dog interactions, showing you when to step in and how to do this appropriately.

I've had the same experience, slashed my wrist which was a little awkward to explain to people! I went a bought a proper tracking line after that, which is really nice to handle and has a rubber weight at the end which reduces tangles and gives you something to put your foot on if required. What I do like to use really thin lines for is a "dropped leash" drill, the line is attached to the leash. We're pretty sure the dog will come when called by that stage, and if he doesn't we don't hold onto the thin line, but have it tied to something else that we can put our foot on.

Sorry I'm not sure quite what you mean by resource guarding? Like how he won't get off the bed when I ask? He used to do it occasionally when he would sneak onto the couch but he doesn't even go on the couch anymore. He sometimes gets off the bed when I tell him to, mostly even, but when he decides against it he is pretty stubborn. Also not sure what you mean by touch a target with his nose? He is big, so he can easily touch the bed with his nose? Sorry if I've misunderstood. Wolfsong correctly answered your first question, the "resource" was the spot on the bed that he was occupying. Touching a target is simply touching something with his nose, whether it be a stick, or a plastic disc (yoghurt lid), or your fist. If he touches something with his nose, his body isn't going to be far behind it! Assuming they are still connected, that is... It's a very easy trick to teach, instructions are here: http://positivepetzine.com/target When you have taught him to follow the target, you can move him to where you want him to go with the target. You can move him off the bed, onto the bed, wherever. This is a no force, +R approach to moving an animal. The point here is that your dog is making the choice to do it, making the choice to do what you have asked him to do. There is no conflict between you, and it puts you in charge of the resources. It is easy to transition from using a target stick to no longer using the target stick, but the target is good, clear communication in the early stages and very easy to teach. I use targets a lot when dealing with fearful dogs, even in their fearful state most dogs will follow a target where they wouldn't follow a lure or verbal cues. Seeing as you have no other resource guarding issues your prognosis is excellent, but the next step up from a snap is a bite so consider seeing a professional who can assess your dog in person as no-one on-line can see the whole picture. There are many things that can cause a dog to snap, it pays not to make assumptions about how serious it is or it isn't, but to seek an informed opinion.

Have you got any other resource guarding issues? Not a bad idea to see a professional. In the meantime, can he touch a target with his nose? You can use that to teach him to get on and off the bed on cue. That way you control the resource again.

You certainly are an antecedent, if what your housemate reports is true. So we know the antecedent (you), we know the behaviour (annoy cats) and now we just have to figure out the consequence that is maintaining the behaviour in the presence of the antcedent (Antecedent->Behaviour->Consequence) - and I think you nailed it already above! Your attention, the "correcting", which could be in fact reinforcing this behaviour. If you remove the reinforcer (ignore her when she bothers the cats), you have begun an "extinction procedure", in which case you can expect it to get worse before it gets better. One of the best ways to avoid or limit this is to reinforce something else, as Erny has suggested getting her to come to you before she goes to the cats would be a good idea. If she does continue to annoy the cats, completely ignore her, you might even find it best to walk out of the room if this does not interrupt your life too much.

Well aren't you in luck, I am in Hobart and have a class specialising in recalls and leash manners this Tuesday the 27th. PM me if you are interested. I am familiar with the Shirley Chong protocol, and it will work in nicely with what I teach. There is a fenced off-leash area at Sorell, near the main sports oval.

A lick of cream cheese?

I offer an e-course (timed learning via email installments) that is free: http://positivepetzine.com/pdtfrr_ecourse