Jumabaar

Thanks Silverblue!! I have just decided that perhaps collars would be good for them. It was easy to ID when there were just 5 because they were all very different weights, and two of the girls had markings (so it was only the boys who needed to differentiated). So was looking at whelping supplies to see what to get. Just not sure how tiny there necks will be when they are young!! Any advice? Am going to shoot of an email but thought I would see what people recommended I was sitting last night watching her belly move- rather excited, only a few days left From this and To this She is not happy having to waddle around, but luckily I had ankle surgery a week ago so am spending plenty of time cuddling her on the bed

Just thought I would start a thread now to update how my girl (and my mum and I) go over the next few days! Abby is due on Monday, and had an X-ray today. The vet saw 7 puppies, but is not ruling out another two because there were some quite high up under her ribs. This is Abbys, and my, second litter. Her first on was 5 pups that she delivered in 2.5 hrs quite easily. It seems so much scarier thinking that there might be NINE in there!!! I have a few experienced people to call, and a vet that I trust, plenty of supplies so I know I am as prepared as I can be but all I could think was EEEEEEEEEEEEP when I found out the count lol. So anyway, I would be suprised if she lasted till Monday, she is a WHALE already. Still playing fetch and being a general idiot, typical Kelpie. I am going to start taking her temp from tonight. She was still playing fetch and eating while she was laboring for her last litter so her temp drop and an inability to settle (so she thought fetch was a good alternative to trying to lie down anywhere) were the only indications she was laboring lol. Not tooooooooo worried, about the labor at least, but it should be an interesting few weeks ahead!!

I agree with poodle fan. I trained my hyperactive kelpie to stand still by making it into a big game. I would ask for a short stand, if she managed to be still she got a crazy run round the yard/throw treats and generally go nuts reward. If she moved, I went into another room and ignored her. In the end she would run up to me and stand still looking at me in order to earn her crazy reward. I was also doing a similar thing with gaiting and when she did both I added them together. She still often goes nuts outside the ring but she has it together in the ring, doing it this way didn't diminish her flair in the ring, and she still has plenty of energy but it is controllable IMO you don't want to take the edge off- because that is what catches the judges eye you just want to contain it a little!!

A photo of my girl a week ago She has grown even more since then!!!!

You had better add my girl (Australian Kelpie) to the list. She is due on the 7th! She looks as big now as she did at term on her first litter- Xray planned for the 2nd to see how many she has.

I have just had ankle surgery and am more than a little miserable. The dogs are all being more careful getting on and off the bed, and my eldest girl has not left the room. She has done the same when I have had surgery in the past. They are a pain in the butt to get around with crutches, and have knocked my cast a few times while walking past but as soon as they do they jump back and sit. Lucky they look so cute and distressed, it usually takes my mind of the extra pain!!! I haven't been left without a doggie protector since I arrived home!

Are you a member of your local breed club (if there is one)? Yes- Australian Kelpie Club of NSW If you are a member, what kinds of activities take place that you are involved in? The club really only organises the two shows each year If you are not a member, why not? What kinds of activities would you like to see more of in your local breed club? Activities for non show people. However there is alot of resistance in the club to organising anything like this. It annoys me no end but until we get more pet owners in then we cant organise fun events, but we wont get more pet owners unless we are already running them Is your breed club involved in Breed rescue? No

Depending on the manufacturer.........many on the forum say it is the same, some say the same basic shot with a few more antibodies added. Nobivac have a new vaccine coming out or is out that is given at 10 weeks that over rides parental immunity and is given once only and the dog is vaccinated for life. Think I will go and purchase shares in Nobivac. Do you have a link to more information on this?

I think my Finnish Lapphund is intelligent. She will do a recall from across a field but if she is a meter away she will just look you up and down and ask why...... She is the only one to get through a very poorly built baby gate (kelpies will howl and cry and smash at it, while she just pops through a hole in it). She also stops and thinks about what you are training her to do. Often it can be frustrating as she wont do anything, but rarely does she ever get anything wrong once she has begun a movement. She is very independent, especially compared to the kelpies, and drives me insane sometimes trying to train her- but she is defiantly aware of what is going on!!

My boy has a cool spot to lie- Directly under the aircon vent. Silly boy lies there even when its not on!!!!

There is also the team aspect of flyball vs the solo in agility (generally). So if you are looking for a team sport then give flyball a go! Both will mean that you build a great bond with your dog

One of my Boys is the "fun police" and I just call him away when he starts to bark at the other dogs playing- I will play ball with him or otherwise distract him. With the blocking I have always completely removed myself from my dogs when they have become possessive of me. They have all (and it does seem that all of my kelpies have tried it at one time or another) learnt that blocking another dog from getting a pat means that they stop getting any attention. So they have never been reprimanded for the behaviour but they defiantly know it is not rewarding to them Dont be afraid to create boundaries and make Sam work for the privilege of being near you and having cuddles. Kelpies thrive on being able to please so the more tasks you set for her to get attention the happier she will be.

Yes, I interrupt Erik. Kivi doesn't care in the slightest, but Erik is very prone to routine behaviour and I'd rather he didn't routinely hump something whenever he gets a little perturbed considering it's not widely accepted by possible humping targets. I interrupt bluey when I know it is anxiety based. But in all other cases I wont intervene unless someone is getting grumpy. The girls have all just come off heat and Abby is humping one of my girls who is not impressed, so I am asking her not to hump Demi, but the others dont mind so I am not stopping her humping them. She isnt stressed and neither are they. Also none of my dogs has ever made an attempt to hump a human. So it would be interesting to see what motivated dogs to hump people, or non pack members as opposed to pack members.

I have Kelpies because they are always there. If I am in the bedroom they are, and if I move into the kitchen they all get up and go with me. I have done a 6hr study session with Abby propping up a 6kg textbook for me without moving, then went and did flyball training with her!! They are very sensitive to my moods, but at the same time they are ALWAYS happy. They just get more clingy when I am not happy. I got my Finnish Lapphund because I needed a dog to fit with the kelpies and didnt have time to raise and bond with another Kelpie. She is much more independent. That being said, she also moves from room to room with me, but instead of sleeping on the lounge next to me she sleeps behind or under it. She also has a good on/off switch. And it is a nice change to have a dog that I can take anywhere and not 'manage'. When I take the kelpies out they are constantly ready to 'do' something and are constantly asking me what I want them to do. Demi, the Fin, is quite happy to chill on the show trolly, or dumped on someones chair until I tell her we are going to do something. Then I have a dog that can get serious air, and bark and basically become a fluffy Kelpie LMAO. So I guess I like dogs that DO stuff with me

I have to admit I really am not a Jean Donaldson fan. I don't really have a problem with her, but I rarely find I am in full agreement with her. In this article, I think she has missed some of the social nuances in play. I see when young dogs (less than 12 months) hump during play, it usually looks like rehearsal to me like Donaldson says. But I think play has a secondary purpose at least in dogs to rehearsing serious behaviour and that is learning about being a social animal. I always consider that a dog humping another dog is at that moment very close to the other dog and in a position where the dog underneath often can't easily get away if they want to. Little wonder there are plenty of dogs out there that really DON'T LIKE being humped. It tends to end play sessions and so I guess dogs learn to exclude it from their play repertoire. If that were the case, in play I would expect to see it reserved for dogs that know each other pretty well. I can't say I definitely see that pattern, though. Erik and Kivi are BFF and humping is about the only thing they don't do in play. None of their canine pals do it to them and they don't do it to their canine pals they don't live with, either. Possibly all those dogs got snapped at often enough for humping that they no longer do it in play to anyone, but Kivi and Erik have never really been play humpers. Why would they "rehearse" every other FAP in play, but not humping? Erik humps Kivi when he is feeling social anxiety. Example, I do something Erik doesn't really like that he also can't control, like going outside to feed the hare without him, and I come back and he's humping Kivi. I train Kivi, or brush him in front of Erik and Erik often tries to hump Kivi. It is displacement behaviour to me. I am quite confident this accounts for a lot of humping in play as well. It's easy for play with a playmate that is not well known to abruptly plunge a dog into the realms of unsurety. If the other dog is not giving them enough play signals, how are they to know what this dog means? And, the presence of humans can surely also create moments of uncertainty, especially if the dog's owners roused on them for something during play and they weren't quite sure what. So I guess I agree that dominance has little to do with it, and that humping in play is fine if the other dog is okay with it, but I don't necessarily think it is all about sex. I think maybe it's mostly about sociality. Bluey does a similar thing. In situations where he is stressed he will try and hump Abby. She is not fussed by it although I have taught her to automatically sit so that I can distract bluey and try and work through what is making him stressed. I have also noticed it when he is extremely excited and doesnt have an outlet for that energy. I will also note that the first time this happened was at 10 weeks of age when he met a strange dog (acted strangely). His back end started humping (air) and he turned around to look at it. So at this age there would be no sexuality in it!!!! Abby on the other hand I am sure does it more from a sexual side. She learnt at a breeders place where there were a whole heap of girls on heat humping each other. It is more common when she is on heat but she will mount another dog any time of the year (mind you she will also stand for a dog to mount her any time of the year the little tart!). Again I think this is more of and excitement and energy release process rather than completely sexual.... Hmmmm Not sure but I dont really see it as dominance. My smallest bitch (and of course the most dominant) likes to hump everyone, but was physically to small for anyone to hump her. Since a lighter bitch (who of course also is a little humping devil) has moved in Safire is more than happy to be humped. They only hump pack members, never other dogs. So assume there is some relation to pack in the process. NB- No my place isnt filled with a crazy continually humpind dogs! Although I have had a congo line go down the hallway on the odd occasion!

I have invested in a blow dryer for my girl that got hot spots. I also wash her in EPO (evening primrose oil) shampoo- there are a few different brands so you need to work out what works. Since drying her throughly (which also blows out the undercoat instead of having to brush out the undercoat) and using the shampoo I have found some TINY scabs in her coat that would have turned into hot spots prior to using the shampoo and dryer, and have not had to deal with a full blown hot with her for ages. I also use the dryer to dry the hot spot which means that the hot spot I got on another dog was cleared up in a day.

Exhibit A. The exact attitude that sucks from breeders. More holier than thou rubbish. Go back and read my original post. It was working dog specific advice! I wouldn't bother reading any advice for large breed dogs because they interest me little and I'd never own one. The research was completed in march of last year at the uni of wisconsin (or washington?) ... And it suggested that previous advice on working breeds is now outdated and should be replaced with: collared walking is to replace letting dogs run their own race. working breeds will overdo it and must be held back for longevity. About 10 years ago in the U.S they banned agility for working dogs under 18 months for this reason, and in Australia they still in places allow any dog of any age to run. You know what, I'd be really surprised if I responded to another post you type. I know all I need to about you I have kelpies, and they do use the yard- I have three that self exercise the day away (in suburbia) because you never know when those evil zombies might attack, or a bird might try and land in the yard!! I wouldn't like to see a kelpie live somewhere it didn't have the opportunity to sun bake or have a zoomie session. My dogs are locked up when I am out like many others, but when I am at home they have access to the yard. As pups I think they do need to have controlled off lead play. There is a difference between zoomies, and 'i am not thinking where I am running' crazy play, and after one injury from not stopping that type of play they have all been taught a time out que!! I don't think I could sell a kelpie to someone with no yard at all- a small courtyard would be fine, I have a friend with three working dogs in a townhouse successfully, but she is not your average puppy owner....... I also would struggle to sell one of my next litter to someone without a fence- since the mother is a piss off artist when she decides to be and although all of the pups have been homebodies I couldn't garuntee it in this generation. Other kelpie breeders who have had the opportunity to breed for dogs that won't piss off would obviously be much happier to consider people without fencing. I guess what I am trying to get across is that as a breeder I know my breed but I also know my lines. Thus there will be blanket refusals based on both of these facts. I have met many people who wanted a kelpie that were just not suitable, some have gone on to get them and are just not happy. So sometimes it is necessary to accept that the breeder is right and either their breed or their lines are not suitable for certain situations...... Might mean I have some crazy expectations but ultimately it is what it is and I know what my puppies need......

I understand what your saying. I have done some certs, not in dog training and it was more- "this is what you do" type training, but my degree has been more along the lines of- "here is a first principle, now tell me how you solve this stupid, irrelevant brain numbing problem that has no purpose but we feel like making you jump through some hoops to fill in time" type thing. The problem with that is that I can see people that do well in the degree, but have no ability to put what they know across, or use it practically, I have also see people do certificates that 'get' what they are doing and instinctively understand the whole process. I think as many people have been burnt by intelligent academics with no ability to communicate as there have been people burnt by people with certificates out to make a quick buck!! Ultimately I would look for someone who has delt with the problem I had successfully, and who can communicate what we are doing and why it is being done. I am not the average dog owner, so if it comes down to me going and trying a few different places so be it. I don't think I would be swayed overly by a degree or a certificate, more what actually happens during the first consult!!! And that might be more the problem for Joe blow- they go to a trainer and get told what to do and they do it. Often there is a fixed budget, and many people I have delt with are not going to trial a few different people to try and get the best results- once they have found someone that's it. this is what allows the crapy trainers to stay in business!!

Oh I wish I were down your way!!!

I am happy to take feed back from just about anyone- doesn't mean I will actually bother to think about it for more than three seconds!! I try to look at what people say objectively- yes I know that my flyball dog does not come back as fast as she goes down. It is a bit of a running joke now and I don't mind people commenting on it. I do mind people telling me that it is easily fixed- it isn't and I have just accepted that's the way she is. Someone saying that my Lapphund is low drive when they see her at a show etc is not very appreciated, nor telling me that my kelpie is bumb high when she is stalking sheep- generally people who make those types of comments will get a polite education on the topic. I tend to seek out feedback from people that I actually want to get it from, so anything else is evaluated based on it's merrit. Nice feedback is also welcome- it's something that I have been trying to do more of myself this year, and will up the anti in the new year because I dont think there is enough of it floating around. I know as a newbie with a high drive dog I didn't receive very many positive comments but the ones I did get were what kept me going.

I would probably be ok with it- I guess already being in the faculty would make it easy lol. Are you just looking at puppies or looking at lines? It's an interesting topic since I have seen all of my fist litter now a few times and it has been interesting to see things that they all have in common, even being raised very differently. I would be happy to ask owners about it. I don't think we have enough research into this area so am more than happy to contribute some thing.

I have an OKS but recently have seen one made by NFS (they are on line) and was quite impressed- i have a dog that can escape out the top and the NFS has latches as well as fold down handles and breaks. It looked quite sturdy!! I am hoping I can convince shell to buy one so I can see how it handles the off road!!!!!

I wasn't going to come on here, because ultimately I get just a little to passionate, and since I have had no sleep and am off to an exam I am going to guess I will be passionate again!! And to me Kavik this is just wrong. Perhaps I should bow out of this as I maybe just a bit too passionate about standards being there for a reason. The reason that Kelpies must have a ruff and brush tail is to keep them warm when the temperature in the outback rapidly drops at night. I give up. What the heck do I know anyway. It isn't just the heat. My boy with the double coat has outlasted quite a few single coated kelpies on hot days. Bucause the undercoat acts as insulation. Shame that having a dog that can rely on an additional mechanism for thermoregulation is optional. I will also add that there are quite a few poorly coated kelpies that become aggressive when hot- I have to wonder if they had a correct coat if they wouldn't get as hot wnd thus would never be aggressive....... But once again coat is soooooooooooo not important in a working breed. Why isnt there as fierce a debate- because generally people with show kelpies don't rise to. The bait as much as GSD breeders. Doesn't mean we take it any less personally. I got into show dogs because I wanted a dog that wouldn't snap a leg, didn't have a staffy head on it, was well bred with no temperament issues, would do dog sports. I got that. I guess you can say all these come in working lines but I guess i also like the homogeneity of the the show lines to be able to reproduce a dog that I am happy with, haven't seen so much of that in working lines who require different working dogs for different reasons. I don't want a massive dog- they are not as efficient as a medium sized one for what I want. I don't want straight stifle because it predisposes to knee and back issues. I don't want poor angulation in shoulders because I want my dog to be competing in their old age. I have seem plenty of fine workers that don't fulfill these requirements and funnily enough they only last a couple of years. They are bred from though because workability is put first. Not every working kelpie is like that- but more and more are cropping up because people are so busy trying to distance themselves from the silly breed standard they are shooting themselves in the foot!! Not critiquing a dog that can work sheep is about the silliest thing you could do because there is much more to a dog than a brain- it has to be able to physically carry out it's job!!!! I want a kelpie with a kelpie head- that is just aesthetic so shoot me!! I could go on but to answer the original question- I am going to say it was politics because "everyone knows that a solid colored dog CANT work". And if I had a dollar for every time I heard that I would be quite wealthy!! And show people were no better. So I will shoot a question back to the working dog people- why are there so few working dogs that are solid colored lol!!! I don't think the current show people are as bad with quite a few colours popping up in the last few years- but it is a little hard when they are recessive. We have to look past the colour and try and pick the best pup- temperament and confomation from the litter because that is a bigger priority than a certain colour!! So I guess I would like a nice balance between the two instead of people being so quick to distance themselves from the other. The fact is that it was only a short time ago that they were being interbred so they so bloody similar it isn't funny. I have owned both and really can't see much difference in temperament and personality at all. I think i will probably own a working dog again in the future but that will more be an experiment than anything else. I am sure that it will look at the rest of my dogs and say 'hey you play like me, you run like me whoooot another friend' rather than worry about their registry!!!!

My very far fetched 2cents worth I would think being able to trace a puppy back to the original source- so micro chips identifying the breeder which could be recorded on a national data base. Alows identification of where dumped pups originate from so that there can be effective communication/education to the consumers that are likely to go there. Laws actually making a breeders desexing agreement legal. It's thrown around all the time that people will buy a pup and then not bother to desex and a breeder has no control over that and that a desexing agreement is really worth nothing. So perhaps a legal document that can be drawn up stating that the dog is not to be bred from and a fine it is proven that it is. This would of course be expensive to prove as it would require DNA testing, but it would at least allow some control over pure bred dogs ending up at puppy farms The ANKC also has to stand up and ensure that the code of ethics is not being breached. They can't control non registered breeders but perhaps if they were more pro active in searching for poor breeders they would be able to have more influence. It also has to come from the other canine registries as a joint front it think to make sure their code of ethics is being monitored. And to just lobby the govt into putting money into education and enforcing current laws.

+1!!! I have heard the same thing but can't find any information on it. I have not heard of it really in black and tan kelpies, or lapphunds.