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For Horse 2008- EIC= Exercise Induced Collapse. Which has been identified in some lines of Labrador thus the reason it is suggested as a reason for your dogs collapse. It is hard to determine if the dog actually did lose consciousness without further information from the OP. I have seen a dog with EIC that was severely disorientated with glazed eyes and unable to focus. Another I have seen was very alert and still trying to run, dragging its back legs. Also more information on the actual incident ie how long the dog had been working for, specifically what type of work and how excited the dog was. It could have been EIC, dehydration, heat exhaustion, Hypoglycaemia, a neurological problem or others. All of these should have been considered by the OP's vet and a series of questions, physical exam and even blood and urine tests could be run to either rule out or rule in some of these basic causes.

I make the comment about water because some are up to 80% water. So you might only be feeing him 300g of actual food and 1200g of water!! Tinned food is great in addition to kibble but with a dog that is under weight you want them to be getting in as many calories as you can, not filling them up with water. Carrot is a great treat- mine get them as chew toys as well. They also get bits sweet potato and pumpkin however I dont consider this part of their meal as they really dont contain much in the way of calories. So as long as you know this feeding them is fine. You could perhaps use some extra bones- lamb necks or roo tails as treats as well since your dog doesnt need to watch its wait

Posted similar in the other thread but will add it here too.... An intestinal wormer such as Drontal or perhaps Milbemax (depending on what you use for heart guard) will be a good start. Even if you do worm your dog it can be good to change brands (ingredients) occasionally to make sure it is still working. If you hadnt been to the vet already I would be suggesting going and seeing about any medical problems- fainting in the park is a bit of a worry!! Was it a hot day or did the vet believe it was because of lack of energy? Also did they do any blood tests- ie glucose levels just incase it is diabetes, metabolic or hormone problem. I would be swapping a good quality kibble- Black Hawk has a good name, as does Artemis and Eagle pack. These are more energy dense then tinned food which has a high water content ie your 1.5kg of tinned food might only be the equivalent of 500g of dry food or less! It should also mean that he takes longer to digest his food, giving him more time to get nutrients out of it.

I agree- a trip to the vet to rule out any medical problems that can cause dogs to burn up more energy than normal, and an intestinal wormer such as Drontal or perhaps Milbemax (depending on what you use for heart guard). Even if you do worm your dog it can be good to change brands (ingredients) occasionally to make sure it is still working. I would be trying a good quality kibble- Black Hawk has a good name, as does Artemis and Eagle pack. These are more energy dense then tinned food which has a high water content ie your 1.5kg of tinned food might only be the equivalent of 500g of dry food or less! It should also mean that he takes longer to digest his food, giving him more time to get nutrients out of it.

Me too! it had an obvious fault (very obvious!) yet I had also seen it awarded the CC on many occassions (albeit, unopposed - but it should have been non-awarded)... I guess as they have had the occassional challenge that is why they keep going back - variable reinforcement at it's best. They are only kidding themselves really at the end of the day thought aren't they. Sad if the fault is that obvious that it ahs been awarded at all. It was a coat fault (so it had a 'fluffy' coat - like a long coated GSD or Corgi - but neither of those breeds)...that's pretty obvious I think! And I thought I was being subtle about what dog it was LMAO. And judges giving that dog points should be audited and asked what the hell they were thinking

I know several in my breed who have (same people with different dogs) I have seen the SAME dog non-awarded at least 10 times. Each time the exhibitor asked why it was not given its Challenge, they were given the same answer. I am not sure if they kept going because it HAD been awarded in the past (and I truly hope not as it was a major and obvious fault) or if they didn't believe the judges. They had a bitch which was a nice example of the breed and were always awarded challenges for her so not sure why they kept going with the other one.....

I am another that only uses C3- and my dogs do come into contact with Kennel cough regularly. They are otherwise healthy and I have never had a problem with them contracting it. I would probably reassess when the get old, or have a concurrent disease. That being said my vet does the C3, then I duck back in two weeks later have have the intranasal KC so that they do not get overloaded all at once, giving the dog a better chance of having good responses to all components.

Another no from me. If that email were sent to me would be saying that my line of dogs is unsuited to those conditions- which cant come back at me if another breeder says yes to them.

Just wanting some advice. I just want to say in the beginning that I will be trying to keep my neighbour happy as I dont want it to become an episode of fence wars or something similar!! BACKGROUND I have been living here 3 years and have part of the back yard fenced off so the dogs cant fence run with some big dogs. It is a compromise, I let them use that part of the yard supervised, and the other owner also actively manages her dogs so I am not really fussed by this. They have been struggling with the people behind them who have dogs that are allowed to fence run and are reinforcing the habit. 9mths ago the people on the half of my yard that I use bought a Small Yappy dog which sits at my fence growling- I have been out without my dogs and heard it. So my dogs started fence running along that fence too . The children on the other side have been heard to egg the dog on, and other times will just ignore the racket. I tried to get ontop of the situation immediately as I know every time they dog it they get a reward and reinforces the behaviour. I have the hose near the back door and will spray them while they are at the fence barking, and they get treats for coming in when I call. It has gone from there being fence running constantly to perhaps 2-3 incidents during the day. And even if it does happen they all generally come back in when they are called now. So last week I used the hose 4 times total. Unfortunately my mums bitch has come in season so I am minding her. So she has copped the hose on her a few times yesterday but already it is starting to pay off. NB I use the hose as a punisher because fence running is just so rewarding for them that my treats dont compete! It is not an option for her to go back home as my grandparents are there and can not be trusted not to let her out in the yard with their boy. PROBLEM My neighbour however yelled at me today that I shouldnt use the hose because it makes her dog wet- there were a few swear words thrown in. She made no effort while she was yelling at me to stop her dogs behaviour though!! SOLUTION- (with associated grumpy rant) So I am now faced with not wanting to annoy my neighbour (her children have thrown apple cores over the fence in the past and will quite happily throw balls at the colour bond fence and drive the dogs nuts and I am sure they would be happy to throw other items over if they had the shits with me) but at the same time I dont want a noise complaint. I am going to try and set up MORE temporary fencing next week but I am still worried that she is going to make a complaint because she sounded like she was about to blow a fuse over her dog getting wet. Not even sure how it gets wet considering it is a solid metal fence but I have to believe her. I had not put up additional fencing up to this point because I had a solution that was working, and I really dont have the money for something that will keep the Kelpies in- we are planning outdoor renovations in the near future which I hope will reduce problem further (putting in a planter box and having native shrubs and changing the fencing). If she make a complaint will the council take into consideration that she is blocking my method of solving the situation, that I have put up fencing to try and stop the problem and that I do training etc and am a responsible dog owner? I have a feeling that even with an air gap there is still going to be barking because this little dog sits and growls which will still set my dogs off. AND can I just tack on the end that is really annoys me that it will be my dogs blamed because they have bigger barks than her silly little thing!! Ultimately this is just a joy of living in suburbia and I just need to suck it up. I just hate that my dogs no longer get to enjoy being outside all day anymore. Any advice about anti fence running garden designs, how to sooth nutty neighbours or any other pearls of wisdom are welcome. As are any other complaints that will make me feel better about my situation lol.

Malinois though have been WELL researched (particularly for a breed that I am over 5 years off even considering ) and is much more likely than the Lakenois which I will admit went on the list also because of looks lol. The only bad part about the list I have is that I have to be patient!!! ETA-and its just MEAN to say no to a Pharoah puppy!!!

Sounds good!

I also tend to be cautious around dog parks. I go in if they are empty and leave if someone else arrives. That is because of previous experiences rather than my dogs. I would also caution being around them simply as a health risk at such a young age- physical injuries from running around like an idiot is common in Kelpies. I think your pup would have found other dogs interesting even if you had never been to a dog park! You have a breed that is attracted to movement and noise so you need to build up a strong reward history for giving you attention. Going on short walks (pups at this age really only need a 10-15 minute wonder rather than a proper walk) and rewarding attention, even a glance will help you when you get to more distracting environments. If your dog becomes too distracted you might have to go back to a less distracting environment so that you can reward good behaviour. I think at this stage the dog park would be too distracting for what you are aiming to achieve. I do training at Castle Hill (not sure what area you are) and most of their beginner classes focus on getting the dog to give you attention as this is the foundation that all other behaviours are built on. I will even reward my dogs for flicking their ears in my direction to listen to me, I don't always need them looking at me, but I defiantly want them listening to me. When you go to a dog park you should have voice control over you dog- so a reliable recall so if there is a problem your dog comes straight back to you so this is something else to think about.

Have you started Obedience or any sort of training yet?

What about breeds where they do have a specialty but it is small? So every dog can qualify anyway simply by paying their petrol money and turning up Just get judges to refuse challenges to dogs not worthy and the problem is solved. I have seen challenges refused in the past so am not sure what the problem is.

I got this at uni as well. I was even accused of adding to the numbers of unwanted dogs because I had a registered litter by people in my year! No vet wants to see unhealthy dogs. Many just dont know that there are ethical responsible breeders out there and have not been exposed to them I guess.

A much better idea to avoid these "Petrol Champions" you speak of would be for Judges to refuse more challenges if they feel the dog isn't up to scratch. +1

Exciting to see Kelpies make the list!! Currently I own Kelpies (aka lounge lizards at home and anything I want them to be when I go out) and a Finnish lapphund I plan on having more of these but I also want some one-offs Ibizian hound or Pharaoh hound or Saluki- as a show dog Belgian Shep - Laekenois because I think it would be exciting to train Papillion- small funky and fun to train and a Bitza rescue terrier- they are just cool!!

When I move around the house I also have a trail of up to 7 dogs behind me (fine until I remember something that I have left behind and try and go straight back down the hallway ). My dogs go straight to sleep when I leave the house- bones and treat toys are usually where I leave them when I get home. When I am out though they dislike being tied (usually while I am setting crates up) up or left with other people- but are more than happy to sit in their crates and wait for me. That reflects their training though. I do have a baby gate set up in the hallway so from an early age if I need to I can stop the dogs following me. This also gets them used to me disappearing and coming back. ETA- So long as you can leave the house without him fretting then having a dog that follows you round the house isn't a big deal. My first girl was minded by my grandparents when I went out so she was almost never left by herself until she was a year old- but this has not had any adverse affects.

Enough to employ someone- I am not sure about it being enough to actually do enough advertising though....

You can have anything in a litter- you can have an entire litter of duds (even from great dogs) or an entire litter of stunners and a mix of everything in between. There is also some grey areas in show quality- a pup might meet all the requirements of the standard, so is technically show quality, but is not an exceptional example of the breed. I am guessing that the OP had a generally good quality litter (ie no major faults), and one very promising boy. I have been involved with litter assessments where all have been deemed show quality where I would have only pick one or two- either because of expectations or just preference of type. Her risk would depend on how fit she will be in two years, how big her litter is, how big the individual pups are in the litter etc. I dont think she has more risk of having a section next time than she was this time so if everything is the same next time (not likely) then she would need another- but the fact that she has already had one is not a risk factor itself.

I thought I might come in here- in the hopes I might be more motivated to actually DO some of it. I have no excuse now that I have a garage set up with lighting and antifatigue matting so I can practise groundwork and OB regardless of weather. Franky- 4mths old right now Get positions named and in the heel position from the start! And aim for CCD entry in early 2012 Begin agility foundations Have an amazing recall Demi Flyball- teach her to get the ball from the box HIC HT title Abby Get her back into Obedience and fit enough for flyball (after her litter) Enter Novice Bluey Un-break him (me having an ankle reconstruction undid a bit of the behavioural work I had done with him as he felt the need to protect me, and I wasnt able to resolve it straight away) Stop him chasing other dogs so he can enter a flyball comp!! Me Actually DO some of the things on my dogs to-do lists

Using opti clean to regularly can also cause yeast infections by putting the natural environment of the ear out of balance. It is fine if it recommended by a vet but there are more gentle alternatives for preventative treatment. Also when you go to a specialist they should really be offering the best that they can- its not a money grab it is them being as careful as possible. If she has access to an MRI to check your dogs ears, didn't offer that as an option and you later found out that the ear drum HAD burst and it could have been prevented by an MRI she would be in a fair amount of trouble. Vets SHOULD recommend the best and safest possible care to all their patients, and it is up to their owners to decide what they do from there.... Vets really don't make much out of an MRI so your comment about the money grab was completely uncalled for.

Hmmm...So what do you think the problem is? WHy is he crying when we leave him? Its not fear of confinement as he will happily go in there now and sometimes (although rarely) when we are at home and he's sleeping in his crate, I open the door and he just stays in there anyway for a few more minutes. The crying is when he thinks we're leaving (or when we actually do leave) or even when crated in the next room while I'm at home. When I leave the house, I always crate him as it would be highly irresponsible to leave a pup uncrated and unsupervised with choking hazards. One time I left him for 10mins uncrated and he did what I expected...he peed and pooped everywhere out of nervousness/anxiety (even if I emptied him right before I leave). Also when he is uncrated and I go into another room with the door shut, he will cry and claw at the door and pee there as well. Sometimes if he's highly anxious in his crate when we leave, he will also soil his sleeping area and ignore all treats in there and also clawing at the walls. Of course, we ignore all the crying and if excessive crying goes on for 10mins, I get my shoe and slam it against the house door to make a loud bang so he associates a negative thing with being whiney. We only EVER let him out when he's quiet and calm. CW_EW, thanks for the input. I will try that and see how he goes. I do occasionally give him treats through the crate, but wasn't sure about the praising. I've been told to let him out in the backyard when we leave so I might puppy proof the backyard and give that a try. Just wanted to see if there's anything else I can do to stop the whining and clawing. Just out of interest what type of kelpie is this pup? From working or show lines? Also how was the pup kept at the breeders? I tend to accept accidents at this age as just being a puppy- Some like to wee three times in a row, so even if you see them wee they might not have actually finished. Also when they go outside often they are so excited/distracted they forget to go. So it may be excitement rather than fear that is causing him to have accidents. I would praise any quiet calm behaviour. ANY- so pop him in the crate and take a step away, reward that. Take two steps and reward that, and reward each step till you can get out the door. If he starts making noise I would quietly turn my back and wait for him to quiet. Kelpies are very good at self rewarding so you talking to him or looking at him reinforces the whining. My puppies do cry when they first go into crates but I ignore them. If I think it is because they need to toilet then I carry them out see if they need to go then pop them back in the crate and wait them out. Generally as soon as they settle I let them out and give them a cuddle- so they work out that being calm is the best way to get my attention. You have got a very smart dog so let him work out that being calm gets him more attention (even negative attention) from you than being naughty. He is a puppy who does not yet know the rules so you will have a period where he will try anything to get what he wants. ETA- just saw your pup had never been out before.... This means that he has had no toilet training at ALL, so he does not realise that going to the toilet where ever he wants is wrong. It might be instinct not to soil their sleeping area, but if he has been doing it at the breeders then that is more important than instinct, so he will continue to do it.

RIP Dixie My thoughts are with you

Thanks Woofen! At the moment she is attempting to lick it out of my hands (usually a small piece of ham or cheese), until I mark she doesn't get it. At the moment her default "leave it" is sitting on the ground - that's how we trained it originally - which is why when she sees the treat, but I don't give it to her quick enough she sits! I think I'll try mark immediately and then delay a little on the food to see if that works. You could even reward from a different hand- so leave the hand with the food in it there and treat from your other hand after the marker one time, then from the hand you are holding near her nose the next. Just to try and make her realise that the treat doesnt have to be near her for her to receive it.