Jumabaar

You are doing ok so far, it does take time and it will be easier in the weeks after the operation. The only good long term solution to this is to tackle both dogs, because as long as the older one does this, the younger is likely to continue. You have chosen to use a positive method so far, I would suggest that this problem would be better dealt with negative reinforcement. Slow down your walk through the house and give a correction if the dog sniffs and goes to take the position on the way out. Don't wait for the leg lift, you will be half a second too late. Luckily kelpies are large enough dog that you will get time to put in the correction before it's too late. Dogs always sniff and shuffle before leg lifting, so you need to watch very closely so you don't miss it. Use white vinegar to clean up any old smells, as it breaks down the enzymes. I agree. While training my boys I have always had food on my outside to reward going to the toilet while he is on grass (deciding on criteria is really important- if you aren't clear with the boundaries he won't understand them to be able to break the habit.) and they were corrected if they LOOKED sideways at something in the house. They now won't mark even when the other dogs have accidents. I found 'grass' was a really easy criteria because it was really easy for the dog to identify. Adding a cue so you can toilet him before you bring him inside and taking him out hourly and asking him to go might also help the situation. It won't eliminate it but I find they tend to sniff more when they have an empty bladder before marking than when they have a full one lol.

But did the scientist bother to read the dictionary when made up their own definition lol Agree Aiden! ETA- how do you measure 'hardy', or 'brave' in a dog? by their behaviour and some scientist somewhere has defined how to quantify boldness on a continuum in a manner that can be compared.

what's the definition of bold? I no longer have access to the university library to go and try and find an answer for you. I am guessing going back and looking at previous studies of the bold/shy axis would be able to answer this question as I am guessing that previous studies have given it some definition that the scientific community is now trying to stick with. They do this so that they can compare studies. There is no point having information on 'aloofness' if you only have info on a few hundred dogs, compared to calling it less bold where there is data from a few thousand dogs. Studies are meant to be repeatable so using methods/questions and definitions already previously used/defined/accepted means that research money/time can be spent finding new information (from the experiment) rather than spending it trying to define new terms. Yes these new terms might be valuable, but unless it is the main focus of the research I assume it would not be possible to do- I am guessing it would also be a nightmare to work out how to quantify and ask appropriate questions to determine this without having had anyone pioneer it before which again comes down to the focus of the research. A few articles that use the term bold http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016815910200120X http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0003347204003392 I think the point is that Corvus isn't trying to invent the wheel with regards to naming something. She has found something that she didn't expect, thus wouldn't have done research on, and has done some research by asking you why her results popped this out. You provided her with some answers that she will now go and see fit in with previous sight hound data. If it does it means she has added to the pool of comparable information on dog behaviour/ sight hound behaviour, if not they why did it pop up? because of owners etc.

Just another point of view. Q- Why do owners of Sighthounds describe their dogs behaviour as not being particularly bold in a particular survey A1- Because of the cohort that answered it- aka perhaps they are pet owners not breeders and thus do not truly understand the behaviours they are reporting back in the survey or they had obtained their dogs from a specific source A2- Because its not because the animals are not bold just don't give a stuff about being bold in a conventional sense A3- Because this group thinks differently to the other breeds that have been bred for different purposes (aka are more independent than guardian breeds) and so need their own spectrum A4- Because the computer is stooooopid and has some attitude issues (having worked with some of the programs I believe this is a serious option! Although Corvus sounds like she does a better job with stats than I ever did). All of these points will be examined (ok maybe not the last one) by Corvus because you have bought them up as reason why it appears from this survey that Sighthounds as a a statistically significant group rated lower in boldness to other breeds of similar size- since the first premiss made by corvus (rightly or wrongly) was that she didn't expect them to be unbold. Well at least this is what we had to do when we looked at how tall fenugreek plants grew. Unfortunatly behaviour is not as easy as growing seeds on cotton wool and so any information should be regarded as valuable. Does this say to us that there is a misconception from pet owners regarding the behaviour of sight hounds? Not being studied by Corvus but interesting to me because I am so passionate about educating pet people about their dogs! Is this an area that I might now focus on when talking to people with sight hounds- probably because I find human perception of dog behaviour fascinating. Are these dogs actually timid/unbold or are they very bold and their owners are selling them short, are owners misscomunicating what they mean in the survey or are they misunderstanding their dogs behaviour.

IT AAAAAAREIVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks!

I didn't end up going so can't help sorry.

Hi just wondering if someone has a catalogue from the Australian Working Dog Club of NSW that they don't want. Thanks

Thanks for all the kind thoughts. It is just surreal. I was supposed to pick him up tonight for a show tomorrow, and he was entered in another next sat. I don't feel like going to either, but I want to pick up the catalogues. It was all over in less than 48hrs and I think it will take a long time for the shock to wear off. He really was a magnificent sight. Everything that I was hoping for from the litter in the one package. I just feel so guilty that I even had the litter- but hindsight is an amazing thing. His parents were both over 6yrs old and healthy, and I have met every single one of his grandparents and most of his great grandparents as well as cousins and uncles and all have been healthy. Just really sucks. I thought it was going to be a healthy litter that would be amazing flyball dogs- and I could see it in him. The specialist has no answers. A PM is being done, but so far nothing remarkable has been found and I am waiting till a particular histopathologist comes back before I send tissue samples away. So I have no idea if it is hereditary, if the other pups in the litter are safe. It could be epilepsy but there are a few hundred other possibilities as well. It did not present like any particular disease. Its all just completely doing my head in. I had to sit and wait for a month for test results with the Haemophillia, and now I am sitting and not expecting any answers at all. I have been making sure my pups are not left for too long but I can't keep it up- not unless I quit my job and I only started it on tuesday!! I am soooo tempted though. Sorry, just need to vent I don't want to put any more on the people around me who are also struggling to process all this. He was just such an amazing dog.

Cahill was put to sleep an hr ago. He was in pain.

More news- he has not fitted overnight. But when the pheno was wearing off he became very distressed and was vocalizing. He is crate trained and the vet was concerned because it just didn't seem like normal behavior so they gave him the pheno early so he didn't cause himself to seizure again. They are very worried that he has suffered brain injury. He is being put on oral pheno to see if he does betteron it- he is completely knocked out at the moment by the IV dose. We get another update at 2 but it's looking worse and worse.

They have considered bleed on the brain and meningitis etc. Hilaryo- I know it might not be genetic but I can't really bring myself to risk this again. Waaaay to upsetting.

Just as an aside- I have been in a surgery where we could only locate one testicle. After well over an hr and a half the vet opted to close and give the dog a little while longer to mature so it was bigger (small dog). It was either not there at all or somewhere very unusual! So sometimes a vet will stop looking based on time considerations and the dogs vital stats. We don't know everything that went through the vets mind when they made that decision. You might be able to leave it a few weeks with minimal risk Ruftybear. Perhaps talk with your vet about this so that you are comfortable with the decision.

An update. He came home this morning (I went to help pick him up) but had another seizure before midday. He was put on phenobarbytole (sp) but has now had three more seizures this evening and they are adding more drugs. Things are not looking good- Each seizure has a risk of brain damage and the fact that they haven't been controlled............. They don't think it is toxicity- they have done a full blood panel and everything came back normal, and also ran tox screen. He had not been off the property and his owner has done a very close inspection to see if there was anything he could have helped himself. I am sitting crying over the lovely pup that fitted into his home so beautifully and had so much potential. I am also worried about the pups that I kept. If it turns out to be epilepsy everything I own will be desexed. It was only my second litter from my foundation bitch- there were no dramas like this in the first litter. I guess I am just not cut out for it all. Still at a loss as to how this all happened. He was fine this time last night. He will be 7mths old tomorrow

So now she just has to wait. I got a phone call as she was combing the back yard for anything that could have been eaten or brought in somehow but nothing is apparent. Understandable his family is very upset and I wish I could make everything better for them. Hopefully when they get all the bloods back there will be more answers. Thanks for the kind thoughts.

He is staying in overnight on a drip. He has had valium and an enema. Seizures have stopped with the medication. Still no idea what has caused them.

Sitting here feeling miserable- a 6mth old pup from my last litter is on the way to the vet as he was frothing at the mouth His amazing owner rang to let me know what was going on- but I almost wish she hadn't! So now I have to sit and wait for an update on what is going on and I am feeling sick. He is such an amazing little bloke that I borrow to show and he has fitted into their family so well. I don't want anything to happen to him. I lost his three brothers to a genetic condition (never heard of in my breed) so he was the last boy, and even more special. Finding out that he was clear made my month during a horrible time and now I am sitting here feeling like I did when the other pups in my litter were sick. I just want him to be OK Breeding sucks ETA: They have made it to the Animal Referral Hospital and he has been put on a drip.

It didn't with my Kelpie. I think this is another individual dog effect as my boy is still a hoover! I have just redone my boy. It appeared to last about 15mths for him- testes where starting to get bigger and he was showing more interest in the ladies but that was the only noticeable difference. There was no change in muscling or temperament- he is a mummies boy regardless lol.

So glad you caught it. My thoughts are with you.

How random!

I was silly and forgot to get a catalogue!! Oh well, see you all there. I will be trying to get lots of photos for my website again

IMO the dog going down to the ball faster is not about tugging or food, it is about when the dog has learnt the behaviour has finished. My kelpie can get down to the box in 2.0 seconds, in comps she comes back in 2.4 seconds, and doing warm ups in training she will come back in 5.0 seconds. This is because I trained her that the exercise was to go down and get the ball and that the recall is just an added bonus that you do to fill in time, instead f training her that flyball is about running down, grabbing the ball and coming back to me as the task. I know this isn't caused by the tug because I have never managed to get her to tug near flyball (first dog so forgive my faults)! I have seen this with other dogs taught around the same time using the same methods as what I did wit my girl regardless of reward. Dogs trained using a different method have a much better recall.

Vomiting can be a side effect so I would keep an eye on it. No need to redoes- it defiantly would have been absorbed by now (only takes a couple of hrs)

http://www.sydneypetdentistry.com.au/faq-vet/what-to-do-with-persistent-baby-deciduous-teeth/ A handy info page about this topic

Sounds like a great idea.

As others have said you can't just go on price for comparison. Its better to look at 'value for money' because it is a service. There may be vets offering cheaper rates but do they have the same equipment your vet has. Do they offer the same quality of care and customer service. Are these things negotiable to you? I tend to not look at my vet bills too much. So long as I am happy with the service they provide I am happy to pay what they need to keep their quality of care at the highest level.