Jumabaar

I just looked in the ANKC minutes and there is no mention of discussing the agreement at all? Happy to be corrected though. Somewhat confused how a decision was even made.

Why is it okay that they 'barely do any promotion of pedigree dogs and of direct members'. Why does everyone see this as OKAY and is happy to accept it? You'll note I didn't say it's okay nor that it's accepted. Any thread about oodles will contain any number of complaints on this point. Any promotion depends on a number of things: 1. Money. 2. Organisational structure. 3. Those involved in said organisation. 4. People willing to swallow their pride and cooperate. 5. In an organisation that relies on volunteers, goodwill and time. Even now there are pedigree dog people who do not believe that they should do anything to promote pedigree dogs even at a personal level. Do you think the promotion of flyball should be reliant on people who can't be bothered to get up and fight for pedigree dogs? I think the flyball community is rallying behind this. As an aside flyball promotes itself to the community (I do believe the AFA membership is on the rise while ANKC membership appears to me to be going down). A quick run down of what a grass roots member of the AFA has been involved in to promote the sport..... The AFA was involved in the World Dog Games a few years ago, goes to the sydeny pet expo when its on, has a presence of most of the 'dog days outs' in NSW either as a Demo or an actual comp. We have comps at the Sydney royal (4 days of competition, and 3 demo days plus a demo in the main arena and we have a great area right near the gates so everyone gets to see us at sydney ) and I think some of the other states do comps and or demo's at their main agricultural shows. I know we also have a comps for a few Agricultural shows. At all these events we have sprukers that are constantly (and I mean CONSTANTLY after 4 days at the royal) telling people to come and talk to members about getting involved because flyball is the sport for every dog. AND for most small events we can put together a demo team (usually people with beginner dogs who want some exposure and bring our racing dogs with us) within a few weeks, not the 5mths that it takes DogsNSW to plan. Part of the selection criteria for our nationals is for it to be tied in with a big event- this year it was canberra royal, last year sydney royal, next years is with the Dandenong show (no idea how big that one is lol). We usually make it into the papers for our nationals, go on morning TV shows etc. It is the amount of enthusiasm that I think the ANKC missed out on harnessing. It probably wouldn't have taken much effort at all on the part of the ANKC or its member bodies to actually engage with its members involved in flyball to end up with a very solid sport and a group of people that are very active and committed to keeping the enthusiasm running. I have also pulled out my flyball dog during lunch breaks to put on obedience and agility demos at the community pet events when the local members haven't shown up- so I certainly know a fair bit about apathy. Doesn't mean I am not going to try and use some enthusiasm to get the ball rolling with other people too. PS if anyone one wants any info about their local flyball club email the AFA secretary at [email protected]

Titles earned before July 1 will be (should be) recognised according to DogsNSW so send them in. Does it say that anywhere? From what I've read on the website, it comes across as titles that have been applied for and granted will remain but no further titles (regardless of when the dog received them) will be issued. Not sure the purpose of this post Steve? Not asking them to change the rules for me? It was posted by Dogs NSW on their FB page. There is some clarification happening regarding the date that you earned the points vs the date that the AFA issues your certificate needing to be before July 1st (due to the backlog of points being processed). But any certificate dated prior to the 1st July SHOULD be honoured since it was earned while the sport was still officially sanctioned.

But you cannot expect a title gained under an unafilliated body to be recognised on the pedigree. That is the pitfall of participating in an activity that is not offically sanctioned. But up until the 30th of June 2012 it WAS a sanctioned sport!!! There was no warning given by the ANKC that this was going to happen- as far as I personally knew the AFA had dealt with the latest issue so I thought (I am sure most people thought) that the agreement would role over since nothing had change since the last time it was looked at.......

I was actually involved in showing, obedience and agility well before I started flyball. I a dissatisfied ankc member regardless of my sport. It flyball V ankc and I am not sure why you keep trying to turn it into that.

Titles earned before July 1 will be (should be) recognised according to DogsNSW so send them in.

The key word there is 'promote'. Not organise. Promote. Whatever sports there are have to fall under their framework. It's up to dog sports to like it or lump it. I say this without judgement on the sports and I agree that as an organisation the ANKC isn't a friend winner but that goes to the people who are in the ANKC, who in turn are in the state bodies. If the state bodies are going 'Not our fault then it should be pointed out that a representative of the state body is on the ANKC committee. You can't go wrong in making friends but with some people and organisations it takes more effort. Promote- I can't really see any active encouragement in the EARLY stages of these sports. There is a new sport currently starting up- if I were the ANKC/their member body I would be trying to jump on now and be involved with THEIR committee/organisation right now at the grass roots rather than sitting passively until approached. I have seen this approach work (which is why I bring the idea up). Hopefully you will be hearing something along these crazy radical out there ideas in the future..... anyone who would like to thrash the idea of being proactive can PM me :)

I think from reading everything that this would be the best course of action. I agree with HW that since AFA has been prominent, people have not seen the reason to get things up and running properly within the ANKC framework. I think my brain is just wired differently. I genuinely don't understand why an organisation with the mission statement that it currently has isn't actively trying to get all dog sports affiliated with them, and offering members the opportunity to try new sports. i.e. instead of Members having to push for DWD, why the ANKC/member bodies didnt come to its members and say 'there is a cool new sport that we could trial- do you want to have a go'. Or why the ANKC doesn't say to ADAA members that if they are also ANKC members that their titles will be recognised because for all intents and purposes its a dogs sport, dogs have earnt those titles so its our job to record that because we are first and foremost a registry, second to that a spokesperson and promotor of all things responsibly canine...... Weight pulling, Dock Dogs, Sledding, frisby are all examples of sports that should be being nurtured along, not striving against an organisation who is meant to represent them. I don't expect everything to be handed out on a sliver platter but I think they should be being encouraged as much as possible. Like i said- strange brain wiring on my part.

No one said you had to do it Jumbaar - but the flyball community needs someone to act. Why would our club continue to host Flyball? Because the flyball members are an engaged and valued part of the club and my guess is the Committee didn't see why one of our dog sports groups should suffer for this decision. We have our own dedicated grounds and our own insurance for events run on those grounds so that issue is solved. I suppose the problem with flyball only clubs is that they haven't organised themselves to have a voice on the canine controls.. as other dog sports have done via having a committee appointed to deal with all of the sports specific issues and with a rep on Council. Did the flyball clubs attend club president and secretaries meetings at the CC if they were held. I know our CC has one for all clubs. I think we're having a Tracking Comp soon - with Obedience, Agility, RallyO and DWD, that makes five. :) Not the decision to continue running flyball- Just how it evolved that the ANKC club continued to run AFA competitions not ANKC competitions. Because I do run in flyball only team that isn't ANKC affiliated at all (although I personally am) I have no idea why clubs who are tied to the ANKC through other sports decided to stick with the AFA. It was a moot point for us but was it ever discussed in clubs where it was relevant. Did the ANKC send out information to its associates about this option? If not why- if they did why didnt clubs take them up on it. I don't have answers to those questions but I think they are far more important to answer before we push for flyball to start from scratch again. I personally am not a member of our national committee but I do know the people like TJ who initially pushed this through and people who have been trying to maintain the agreement and they did want this to work (I am realistic that not everyone is pushing for it on the AFA side). And are actually a little miffed about why it didnt work. What I don't have is any information from the ANKC side really- so yes I am one sided because that is the only side who will communicate with me. DogsNSW made the announcement and have said it isn't their decision- so basically washing their hands of it all so in all honesty where do I get the other sides story from?? Actually miffed is probably the best description for how I feel- completely in the dark, not a clue, confused and ultimately disappointed. Until we get real answers about why this all failed- from clubs not running ANKC affiliated comps even though they are ANKC members to why there was suddenly an insurance issue- I don't think we can progress to try and get the sport recognised under the AFA banner or from scratch under the ANKC banner. We would come up against the same problems but I am really not sure where to find these answers. ETA- there are no flyball clubs in my area that are affiliated with the ANKC so I never had the option of running in an ANKC team but would have gladly done it and saved myself a little cash.

HW had edited my post because I realise that what I say really is pointless considering I am not going to be in the position to run for DogsNSW this year due to study commitments in the next 12mths as I will be out of the country and in the country for a good portion of 2013 but it is something that I would like to do in the future as time permits. Thank you for your constructive posts. HW- ACT companion dog club now only hosts comps for 4 ankc recognised sports. Also I do believe all flyball comps hosted by your club have been done via the AFA not the ANKC so your club will continue to host AFA flyball regardless of the ANKC ruling- although I do wonder why they made that decision. Further Plenty of agility clubs are not tied to obedience so not sure what the problem with flyball only clubs is??? (I am a member of a flyball specific, an obedience specific and an agility specific club as well as a 'general purpose' club and run into many of the same people at each of the clubs).

Oh well I enjoy flyball and agility, as do most of my team mates.

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If members are going to abuse the organisation you're trying to negotiate than a request that people keep their negative opinions off social media DURING THE RENEGOTIATION is nothign more than good sense. Do you really want the AFA coming back to the negotiation table with the other side bristling with indignation at all the names they've been called?? OK this is where the wires have been crossed. There is no renegotiation happening!! We sat silent while renegotiations happened and it didn't work.

Allergies can predispose animals toward recurrent skin problems. I am currently contemplating an elimination diet for a dog that gets recurrent ear infections. I have been putting it off because the symptoms are not too bad and its going to be an absolute pain- but worth it. I am glad Barkly is doing better!

If it did, I'd hope I'd stay calm enough not to assume a cloak of martrydom, engage in a campaign of publically belittling the ANKC here and on FB and to focus on the issues, not blame the people. :) Seriously, if the AFA wants back in then it needs to engender support from the wider ANKC, not piss them off. And you'd be amazed who reads what's out there on the web. Time for cool heads and a careful re-examination of the ANKC's concerns. In the meantime, it might be wise to lay off the abuse. The issue with the AFA is FAR FROM the only example of ANKC incompetence and a stubborn reluctance to be in any way flexible. Yep, that's the way to get recognition back again... The organisation is far from perfect... but this really isn't helping the AFA at all. If I were the AFA, I'd be attempting to gag my members because this is hardly constructive. As I said before, if this is how the AFA views the ANKC, one wonders WHY affilition is desired at all. Gaging members wow thats a great way to go forward Your views do not represent the ANKC/your state body, my views do not represent the AFA.

I am aware of the structure and the way it is set-up and run is stupid. They are near impossible to contact, slow to disseminate information and useless at communication. The fact that there is a body in existence, that has the final say over all of the rules and regulations that affect our sports that ACTIVELY does not engage with it's members is ridiculous. The ANKC effectively directly refusing to directly deal with it's stakeholders, for no reason other than they are all too lazy (or too stuck in their ways) to hold a few extra meetings and write some emails. And again I ask, who is "they". If you think the ANKC is so "stupid" one wonders why folk are getting their knickers in a twist about affiliation? The ANKC isn't going to change overnight to accommodate the views of one affiliate... as I see it it's either amend your proposal to accommodate the ANKC's concerns or forget about affiliation. Or, as every other performance sport has done, move away from the AFA and get the sport recognised directly. They is the ANKC. We have our knickers in a twist because we own and breed performance dogs who prove their worth in and out of the show ring and the sports rings. AND its our sport. We are members who are not being represented. Why wouldn't we get upset that hard earned titles are not being recognised (kinda like the ANKC trying to remove schutzhund titles from imported dogs in 2010 IMO) I hope that the ANKC never decides to cut a sport your involved in.....

The AFA spent 3 years gaining ANKC recognition thus titles have been recognised and it has been an ANKC sanctioned sport- there was an agreement signed by both organisations. The ANKC could have run comps (and had AFA teams run in them) and could have had ANKC teams enter AFA comps etc. Our titles were recognised (My bitch was one of the first to have her titles processed). The ANKC terminated this agreement due to issues that they thus far haven't publicised. They have only said it is based on insurance- the AFA and ANKC are insured by the same company and the AFA's insurance has not changed since the original agreement was put in place so not sure why this only became an issue when it was time for this agreement to be rolled over.......

I do wonder what it means about other sports that are started by interest groups that then want to gain ANKC recognition. I know the initial agreement took THREE YEARS before it was all sorted out which to me is just silly. If the ANKC was serious about its mission statement it should be proactively seeking these sports out to try and offer support- not stonewalling them. I do personally believe that one of the problems is that the ANKC is a mythical entity that really only exists once a year when they have a meeting, and for the remaining 12mths of the year are....... well who knows what they are for the other 364 days of the year- I still haven't worked it out.

Just saw on the Dogs NSW website that the ANKC are no longer recognising Flyball titles. Sooooooooo disappointed at this point!! My girl only just gained her next title and I don't get to add it to her pedigree Anyone else who is disappointed- perhaps you should let the ANKC/your state body know that you want them to sort this out rather than just letting it slide!!!

I agree

maybe she was worried the other dogs might get off their leads and rush hers? What a mountain out of a molehill this is. Dog was in yard, made no attempt to leave yard, all it did was bark and do zoomies. The OP's dogs also barked. So what. Completely agree! And why would the lady in her yard have her dog unleashed in an unfenced area if she didn't have some confidence that the dog wouldn't stay in the yard. I would never have mine in an unfenced yard near a road as I don't have complete trust in her and her road sense/recall so for this lady to even have brought the little dog out the front must mean they probably do it often and the dog stays within its parameters. Why then do we get so many Hit by Cars when people are taking their dog for a walk? Why am I terrorised by dogs in an on lead area by off lead dogs with no recall???? You are sensible, have a brain and use it- not everyone is so lucky to have the ability to do that. Other people think their dog is reliable but most of them are wearing rose tinted glasses. This is probably a suitable blog post- http://blog.k9pro.com.au/take-no-chances/ The man who's dog was hit in this situation would be liable for all damage to the car that hit the dog...... This is why I said a visit from the ranger to let this person know the consequences if the dog did get off the property might be beneficial since most people don't know the consequences of their dog being caught not on a lead in a public area. At no point did I indicate that the person should get into trouble for what they were doing- I am saying that education might be a good start. In this situation I would have turned around and gone in the other direction- certainly not continued past the dog (I do have a reactive dog and there is no way I would risk my training by putting him in a situation I couldn't control) but I couldn't be bothered waiting for them to catch their dog either. Why are you lecturing me I've already stated I don't have mine in an unsecured area offleash so get off your soap box. that doesn't mean other people will continue to do so on their property and there is sweet FA you can do about it. I would guess most dogs are being hit by cars when they get out from their homes and/or lost not when being supervised by their owner in the front yard. I called you sensible because of your choices. Thats not really lecturing you!! (and although it was your post I replied to it was a general contribution to the thread) I was merely pointing out that not everyone makes sensible/logical choices and the rest of the population suffers because of it. Many HBC in the city are being walked illegally off lead and something random happens and they end up in front of the car. Some of these dogs are 8 or 9yrs old and have always been walked off lead without a problem. The point is even the most reliable dog can have an off day so I don't think any dog should be off lead unless there is a fence or a decent distance between them and cars/other dogs. A few of my dogs have amazing recalls and they still don't get walked off lead near other people or dogs because I am naturally risk averse because past experience has taught me to be risk averse.

maybe she was worried the other dogs might get off their leads and rush hers? What a mountain out of a molehill this is. Dog was in yard, made no attempt to leave yard, all it did was bark and do zoomies. The OP's dogs also barked. So what. Completely agree! And why would the lady in her yard have her dog unleashed in an unfenced area if she didn't have some confidence that the dog wouldn't stay in the yard. I would never have mine in an unfenced yard near a road as I don't have complete trust in her and her road sense/recall so for this lady to even have brought the little dog out the front must mean they probably do it often and the dog stays within its parameters. Why then do we get so many Hit by Cars when people are taking their dog for a walk? Why am I terrorised by dogs in an on lead area by off lead dogs with no recall???? You are sensible, have a brain and use it- not everyone is so lucky to have the ability to do that. Other people think their dog is reliable but most of them are wearing rose tinted glasses. This is probably a suitable blog post- http://blog.k9pro.com.au/take-no-chances/ The man who's dog was hit in this situation would be liable for all damage to the car that hit the dog...... This is why I said a visit from the ranger to let this person know the consequences if the dog did get off the property might be beneficial since most people don't know the consequences of their dog being caught not on a lead in a public area. At no point did I indicate that the person should get into trouble for what they were doing- I am saying that education might be a good start. In this situation I would have turned around and gone in the other direction- certainly not continued past the dog (I do have a reactive dog and there is no way I would risk my training by putting him in a situation I couldn't control) but I couldn't be bothered waiting for them to catch their dog either.

But why are we waiting for this dog to rush in a climate where we already have silly laws?? When I go for a walk I don't want to have to deal with a dog fence running- yup thats even when I am not walking my dog. Also there have been dogs in their yards where I have crossed the road because their body language has been very off. These dogs shouldn't have free access to the road for their own safety let alone mine!! (I would also say that if the lady went to try and catch her dog there was a reason for it...... Most people who have unreactive/reliable dogs just wave me past- its the ones who attempt to catch their dog that worry me the most)

No America still has Pitbulls - Australia is its own kind of crazy due to people thinking dog ownership is a right and they don't have to be considerate of others.

Not just aimed at you donatella but everyone that has made this comment. Why the hell would you take a risk with your own dog in this situation by going past- Even a little dog can do a fair amount of damage it it bites in the right place, let alone psychological damage to the dog AND the human. We had a thread not long ago about how to deal with dog attacks and I do think the attitude that while it sits within an inch of being within the law then we should ignore the problem. Even though it is quite clear that this particular dog is not under effective voice control and is reactive (based on the OP's description of it barking). I always think of dog ownership as a privileged that shouldn't be a burden on others- it means I pick up dog poop, move off the path if someone less mobile is coming along and generally try to keep my dogs as inconspicuous as possible. I doubt the OP would have noticed or cared if the dog in question were not reactive- but it was. So the question I would like to pose is it ok for a reactive dog to be uncontrolled with nothing to stop it accessing the public?? I personally don't believe that is OK regardless of the law- its just common sense!! I would report it- if nothing else so that the ranger can educate the woman on her responsibilities and her liability if the dog were to leave the property.