Jumabaar

Yep A full blood work up sounds good. The dog is not anorexic, just slightly too much rib and too much waste. Having said that he does have narrow hips. Anorexia is a loss of desire to eat which is what you described. Anorexia is a loss of desire to eat which is what you described. Nutrition is exceptionally important post surgery so if the dog is reluctant to eat you should bring this to your vets attention so you don't end up with a dog suffering from malnutrition due to the extra demands of healing post surgery. There are high calorie foods that can be used etc. Edited to make sense

I would have the dog to the vet asap for pain relief (and not leaving without any) and doing a full blood work up before surgery. Perhaps also discuss some nutritional supplementation if they feel that the dog is indeed anorexic.

Not sure if Macaurthur is the best place for a reactive dog. That is just my personal opinion due to the number of escapee dogs I have had visit me every time I have gone to sign up. Haven't actually ever made it to signing up so don't know what their training methods are like.... I wouldn't be paying that much- I got a great result from seeing a behaviourist who charged much less than what you have been quoted!! I also had email follow up for life AND an extra session at a later date. I haven't been there for 12 years or so but it used to be great. I went to one at Warwick Farm too, Werriwa??? I think it is still up and running- or at least it was a few years back when I was scouting out clubs. I drive to Castle Hill for obedience because they have such strict on lead rules (I know slightly OTT)

Not sure if Macaurthur is the best place for a reactive dog. That is just my personal opinion due to the number of escapee dogs I have had visit me every time I have gone to sign up. Haven't actually ever made it to signing up so don't know what their training methods are like.... I wouldn't be paying that much- I got a great result from seeing a behaviourist who charged much less than what you have been quoted!! I also had email follow up for life AND an extra session at a later date.

Great list!!

K have you had a look at my post on the first page? A number of people with sick dogs have done really well with it in the past and it worked really well with me. The trick is to take really small baby and repeat them often enough. If it is anxiety related then it should work fairly quickly and you won't have to constantly medicate which is a pain for you and often not very pleasant for the dog. Hope it helps and good luck. :) I personally will be using medication in the future if natural remedies don't kick in quickly and the dog is sever enough. After 18mths of vomiting and drooling with one dog I don't think I would put them through that again when I could use something to assist them along faster. Desensitisation did eventually work but I regret allowing it to take so long when medicating could have been a short cut once anxiety became a factor too. I tried ginger, not feeding/feeding (feeding worked with my last puppy- would vomit bile on an empty tummy, but happy enough after a small meal), desensitising the car (a little hard when the dog had such strong associations with nausea so wouldn't eat near the car). Also I have heard of dogs that don't improve with desensitisation alone. Why shouldn't this person try medication- it is rarely a life long requirement, just something to help the process of desensitisation along?? Jumabaar I'm happy to agree to disagree. In my experience medication is often a long-term solution as it only addresses the symptoms and not the cause of anxiety related car sickness. Desensitization works well if you use baby steps and make a concerted effort over a short period of time eg a week or two and the dog doesn't suffer if the steps are small enough. The reason it fails or stalls in my experience is people take it in too big steps or not consistently over a short period of time. And if there is a way to avoid medication, particularly long-term where all it takes is a bit of consistent effort I still say why wouldn't you try it ? I prefer not to medicate in these circumstances if possible. But like I said, I'm happy to agree to disagree . An explination: I don't think medication should be the first port of call, but it shouldn't be dismissed if the dog is still struggling after a few weeks to months. Particularly if a desensitisation program is not progressing or not progressing at a rate that the owner can cope with. If it is working then there is no reason to use medication. Not everyone has the time/ patience/ experience / or even the desire to do the desensitisation- sometimes in these cases you chose the option that is better for the welfare of the dog. (Not that the OP is like this but it is a reality for dogs out there in the general population). And this is the reason I will always bring up medication as an option. I have desensitised 5 dogs so far-only needed ginger and working out if they needed an empty tummy, or if a little food made it better. However one of which I am still not sure is really comfortable in the car when it is moving at 5yrs of age. He is happy enough in the car, runs back into it after training and is generally a fun and safe place to be. But he doesn't lie down in the car and has done a 10hr trip without sleeping. I have been toying with the idea of using the anti nausea medication at some point in the future to see if that makes him happier on our longer trips. It may/may not work but I can't see the harm in it if it lets him sleep when we go on long trips. Two very differing and valid views, arguments have both been stated. Can you guys please keep the discussion to methods that might help me and others facing the same problem? :) But aren't we discussing that?? I do agree they are both valid options and the reasons for both options are what will help others facing the same problem so they can determine the best course of action for their situation

K have you had a look at my post on the first page? A number of people with sick dogs have done really well with it in the past and it worked really well with me. The trick is to take really small baby and repeat them often enough. If it is anxiety related then it should work fairly quickly and you won't have to constantly medicate which is a pain for you and often not very pleasant for the dog. Hope it helps and good luck. :) I personally will be using medication in the future if natural remedies don't kick in quickly and the dog is sever enough. After 18mths of vomiting and drooling with one dog I don't think I would put them through that again when I could use something to assist them along faster. Desensitisation did eventually work but I regret allowing it to take so long when medicating could have been a short cut once anxiety became a factor too. I tried ginger, not feeding/feeding (feeding worked with my last puppy- would vomit bile on an empty tummy, but happy enough after a small meal), desensitising the car (a little hard when the dog had such strong associations with nausea so wouldn't eat near the car). Also I have heard of dogs that don't improve with desensitisation alone. Why shouldn't this person try medication- it is rarely a life long requirement, just something to help the process of desensitisation along?? Jumabaar I'm happy to agree to disagree. In my experience medication is often a long-term solution as it only addresses the symptoms and not the cause of anxiety related car sickness. Desensitization works well if you use baby steps and make a concerted effort over a short period of time eg a week or two and the dog doesn't suffer if the steps are small enough. The reason it fails or stalls in my experience is people take it in too big steps or not consistently over a short period of time. And if there is a way to avoid medication, particularly long-term where all it takes is a bit of consistent effort I still say why wouldn't you try it ? I prefer not to medicate in these circumstances if possible. But like I said, I'm happy to agree to disagree . An explination: I don't think medication should be the first port of call, but it shouldn't be dismissed if the dog is still struggling after a few weeks to months. Particularly if a desensitisation program is not progressing or not progressing at a rate that the owner can cope with. If it is working then there is no reason to use medication. Not everyone has the time/ patience/ experience / or even the desire to do the desensitisation- sometimes in these cases you chose the option that is better for the welfare of the dog. (Not that the OP is like this but it is a reality for dogs out there in the general population). And this is the reason I will always bring up medication as an option. I have desensitised 5 dogs so far-only needed ginger and working out if they needed an empty tummy, or if a little food made it better. However one of which I am still not sure is really comfortable in the car when it is moving at 5yrs of age. He is happy enough in the car, runs back into it after training and is generally a fun and safe place to be. But he doesn't lie down in the car and has done a 10hr trip without sleeping. I have been toying with the idea of using the anti nausea medication at some point in the future to see if that makes him happier on our longer trips. It may/may not work but I can't see the harm in it if it lets him sleep when we go on long trips.

I think Prof Mc Greevey is dreaming if he thinks he can work out what makes a dog work because that all comes down to instinct and especially attitude. Health however is a different matter. Working Kelpies actually lose quite a few puppies to Ataxia and Dr Alan Wilton who did the genetic research on Border Collies, was working to find a test for them before his untimely death last year. The research was commisioned by the Working Kelpie Council because losing puppies to a fatal genetic condition costs them a lot of money. I don't know if they have moved that research to Sydney Uni where we had to move our BC research and samples, to or not. It was moved to sydney. A progress paper was given a few months ago. CA is proving a real pain to actually pin down though . I'm glad Sydney were able to take it on as well as all the BC stuff. We had 20 years of samples that we didn't want to lose so are very thankful to Sydney Uni for taking it all on and starting the TNS/CL testing again for us. Alan was also working on CA in Borders which has a later onset than Kelpies but the cases are very rare so we didn't get very far. Sadly I forsee a big increase in cases coming in the not too distant future I think we are lucky that the current Dean of Veterinary Science at USYD is interested in inherited neurological disease!! And was already involved in the CA research. (And has a soft spot for Kelpies as she was involved in the research for Krabbes disease that has resulted in a genetic test). I do think that there are more problems popping up in Kelpies (working and show line). There are dogs in Europe with sever heart disease showing up at 3yrs of age and Epilepsy is also turning up more commonly. The heart disease is scary as vets were not picking up any murmurs and it is only showing up on ultrasound and dogs were still competing in dog sports without any symptoms- so it appears to be very insidious. I love Kelpies but gees I am a little worried. ANYTHING at this point that gets them into the sight of researchers and the general public so we can get funding for our health issues is a positive, regardless of what this behaviour research shows up. Actually if Mcgreevy does find some relationship with working traits then I will be happy as there will be a greater push to keep the breed healthy for further behaviour research. Sheridan plenty of useful research has been done at the University of Sydney, alone and in conjunction with other institutions.

I think Prof Mc Greevey is dreaming if he thinks he can work out what makes a dog work because that all comes down to instinct and especially attitude. Health however is a different matter. Working Kelpies actually lose quite a few puppies to Ataxia and Dr Alan Wilton who did the genetic research on Border Collies, was working to find a test for them before his untimely death last year. The research was commisioned by the Working Kelpie Council because losing puppies to a fatal genetic condition costs them a lot of money. I don't know if they have moved that research to Sydney Uni where we had to move our BC research and samples, to or not. It was moved to sydney. A progress paper was given a few months ago. CA is proving a real pain to actually pin down though .

That may be the case, but you would need to take into account the human population as well. Just quickly checked and NSW has over 7 million people and SA has just over 1 million. This would be more the reason why lack of dog numbers in SA pounds rather than dog limit. I agree- even the social demographics of people in SA would vary greatly compared to NSW. I don't think there are a large percentage of people in NSW that do have more than two as most councils advise people they can only have two dogs even though they can not actually prevent them having more- so most people here think they have similar regulations to SA. I think there is far more going on than just an arbitrary limit on numbers.

K have you had a look at my post on the first page? A number of people with sick dogs have done really well with it in the past and it worked really well with me. The trick is to take really small baby and repeat them often enough. If it is anxiety related then it should work fairly quickly and you won't have to constantly medicate which is a pain for you and often not very pleasant for the dog. Hope it helps and good luck. :) I personally will be using medication in the future if natural remedies don't kick in quickly and the dog is sever enough. After 18mths of vomiting and drooling with one dog I don't think I would put them through that again when I could use something to assist them along faster. Desensitisation did eventually work but I regret allowing it to take so long when medicating could have been a short cut once anxiety became a factor too. I tried ginger, not feeding/feeding (feeding worked with my last puppy- would vomit bile on an empty tummy, but happy enough after a small meal), desensitising the car (a little hard when the dog had such strong associations with nausea so wouldn't eat near the car). Also I have heard of dogs that don't improve with desensitisation alone. Why shouldn't this person try medication- it is rarely a life long requirement, just something to help the process of desensitisation along??

Geeze lucky you they're a double coated breed who normally shed by the bucket load and once again they're a working dog.. Just my 2 cents they are lovely dogs though They are a spitz- so there will be a coat dump at least once a year where there IS fur galore (usually about three weeks, although because mine is entire its twice a year). Although I don't find it too hard to pick up because its long and soft enough to make quite big tumble weeds that don't stick to other things. The rest of the year your hard pressed to get fur off them. Temperament- Def would fit the bill so long as you let the breeder know/ask around for breeders with quiet dogs. My girl has spent the last month with my 80yr old grandparents and her exercise is moving from the kitchen to the lounge room. But is quite happy to do a 2hr walk with me when I have her (which is getting more and more rare as my grandparents love her so much!). They are a breed that was designed to chill out during the long cold finnish winters in the house with the family so are not supposed to get antsi. Your hard pressed to get Demi truly excited about anything other than sheep- so no sheep=no excitement

http://au.tv.yahoo.com/sunrise/video/-/watch/29940668/dog-fight-intensifies/ The sunrise video. The owner of the dog is a bloody tool. A little peeved about the attitude of the DogsNSW rep about fixing the problem with a check chain though too.

Slipped hocks are very common in spitz breeds (according to the doggie chiro the dogs see). The only way to determine what is actually going on and if it would have an effect would be to take X-rays and see if there are any signs of DJD.

you mean the dogs right? Right? bahahaha haha *Pulls foot out of mouth*

I use scourban while I have signs of diarrhoea. If I don't have any signs of it for 12hrs I miss that dose and watch for the next 12hrs and decide if I give another dose or not. It can cause constipation so I use it sparingly. You could drop the rice content and add some pumpkin. ETA- I have never had to use the full dose for it to work either.

You will probably have more luck looking for 'slipped hocks' rather than double jointed?? I haven't heard of a dog that had a problem with it- but they have all been mild.

My eldest, and it looks like my youngest kelpie will do it on cue. They don't do it unless cued and I make sure that they come to me for a game after- so the focus in on the reward to come, not actually chasing their tail. I also don't let them do more than one turn usually. Not something I do often because I don't want them to find it self rewarding but not something I am particularly worried about atm. I would never encourage a dog that was particularly stressy or that I thought had a temperament where it was likely to become a displacement behaviour. Now using a laser light as a reward or exercise is something I wouldn't touch with a 10foot pole!

I think there is also a lack of people to talk to. There are very few physiologists out there that understand the importance of the human/animal bond etc. There are a couple that are awesome though. It is also being addressed by uni's by implementing subjects to deal with processing the emotions etc. Another aspect is knowing that you can help an animal but the owners (or the practise) not having the funds to do the work. With or without the emotional blackmail from an upset owner. I know the younger generation also get upset about being told they charge too much etc. This is also being addressed in the University curriculum- but that doesn't help the older vets.

I have hard that if it is nausea related that there are really good success rates. And the desensitisation if it is anxiety related happens much faster because the feeling that causes the anxiety is gone.

The AFA just wanted more people to be able to access the sport and more comps for everyone..... So exactly what/how did the AFA act to assist the ANKC to accredit and train judges and run comps under the ANKC banner. After all, they were the affiliate with the knowledge, judges, members and equipment that could make it happen. Did they do anything in that context? That was outlined in TJ's post. Also I will point out that the ANKC didnt have a problem with the affiliation agreement- just the insurance so not sure why anyone else would have a problem with it......

The AFA just wanted more people to be able to access the sport and more comps for everyone.....

Who would keep record of the times/points? There is no infrastructure set up for it except through the AFA. The controlling bodies aren't interested in doing it either and now that flyball isn't a recognised sport with the ANKC, they won't set it up because they have to adhere to the ruling. And that's great that you like that there are two kinds of agility.... alas there is only one kind of flyball. AFA sanctioned. And now that it's not recognised by the ANKC, we don't even have the option of 2. Flyball is a whole new territory as far as the way points and titles are awarded. Our last comp was 58 races... each with at least 8 dogs and as I was captaining that day and my team alone had 6 dogs, we're talking hundreds and hundreds of calculations that have to be done. It's not feasible to award certificates at the end of the day as they do in other sports. We don't have quallies, we have cumulative points like the show ring. But since our teams change heat-to-heat it's a massive effort to get points done, and not possible to get them done by the end of a comp. The state bodies benefit from memberships from people who only do flyball, people who are only members in order for their dogs to get titles. Many of these people started with flyball and now do multiple other sports with their dogs too, which the state bodies also benefit from. The ANKC benefits from those memberships as well as through flyball being an exciting spectator sport. Watch it at the royal. Aside from general specials at the royal, there is nothing that attracts a crowd like flyball and we attract that crowd all day, every day we're there. Zero is anything but a small, fast dog or a border collie and yet, we are welcomed to flyball and always have been. We have Poocow's aussie, flynn at our club too who has been welcomed. We train at fairfield. Zero is a 7.5-10 second dog depending on the weather - he's slow but he's reliable and is very well loved at our club. We do have a lot of border collies but no more than my obedience club does. Zero's team last comp was a siberian husky, a tibetan terrier, a small cross breed (apparently a calavier x toy poodle but we have our doubts - looks more like a mini daschund), a cattle dog and 2 older border collies (one who can barely see). Not exactly a team of fast or small dogs and not a team of super fast border collies. We are a division 5 team and we aren't at all competitive but we love our dogs and our sport and that's not what matters to us. I think there is also the element of cost. The Box costs 2k, each club needs a back up box. We have training jumps, as well as comp jumps- they need a full set of heights which I think cost $300 (and you need two plus spare heights). Then there is the timing system (apron $10k) to buy in from the states. Most clubs are fine fundraising for their own basic costs but it really does take a larger organisation to get in the lights- you may need two sets of lights to hold a large competition. It has already been said that the ANKC does not buy equipment for dog sports, and I am sure there would be a funding issue with our state bodies if we were to try and get a solo ANKC flyball league going. 15-30 member clubs just don't have the resources to raise the equipment to get the sport going without a national body to pool resources. At present the AFA has these lights in every state running a team. We have extra lights for big events. We pay a levy at all comps using the lights to pay for their upkeep and renewal. if the ankc team were to step up we would need a specific flyball levy since I don't think $1 an entry (since you only do one entry for one team with 6 dogs on it) is really going to cut it. So even from a financial perspective it seems to make more sense to put pressure back on the ANKC to go back to negotiations with the AFA and to then really try and offer it to its members and let them know that it is offers through the ANKC. I am not quite sure why there was an onus on the AFA to promote that the ANKC would allow teams. Surely the ANKC could have sent this out to its members. It did have a co-ordinator for flyball- why didnt they get on the phone to the clubs with both affiliations and ask them to run and ANKC comp?

Thanks for the interstate view!!

Why is it okay that they 'barely do any promotion of pedigree dogs and of direct members'. Why does everyone see this as OKAY and is happy to accept it? You'll note I didn't say it's okay nor that it's accepted. Any thread about oodles will contain any number of complaints on this point. Any promotion depends on a number of things: 1. Money. 2. Organisational structure. 3. Those involved in said organisation. 4. People willing to swallow their pride and cooperate. 5. In an organisation that relies on volunteers, goodwill and time. Even now there are pedigree dog people who do not believe that they should do anything to promote pedigree dogs even at a personal level. Do you think the promotion of flyball should be reliant on people who can't be bothered to get up and fight for pedigree dogs? I think the flyball community is rallying behind this. As an aside flyball promotes itself to the community (I do believe the AFA membership is on the rise while ANKC membership appears to me to be going down). A quick run down of what a grass roots member of the AFA has been involved in to promote the sport..... The AFA was involved in the World Dog Games a few years ago, goes to the sydeny pet expo when its on, has a presence of most of the 'dog days outs' in NSW either as a Demo or an actual comp. We have comps at the Sydney royal (4 days of competition, and 3 demo days plus a demo in the main arena and we have a great area right near the gates so everyone gets to see us at sydney ) and I think some of the other states do comps and or demo's at their main agricultural shows. I know we also have a comps for a few Agricultural shows. At all these events we have sprukers that are constantly (and I mean CONSTANTLY after 4 days at the royal) telling people to come and talk to members about getting involved because flyball is the sport for every dog. AND for most small events we can put together a demo team (usually people with beginner dogs who want some exposure and bring our racing dogs with us) within a few weeks, not the 5mths that it takes DogsNSW to plan. Part of the selection criteria for our nationals is for it to be tied in with a big event- this year it was canberra royal, last year sydney royal, next years is with the Dandenong show (no idea how big that one is lol). We usually make it into the papers for our nationals, go on morning TV shows etc. It is the amount of enthusiasm that I think the ANKC missed out on harnessing. It probably wouldn't have taken much effort at all on the part of the ANKC or its member bodies to actually engage with its members involved in flyball to end up with a very solid sport and a group of people that are very active and committed to keeping the enthusiasm running. I have also pulled out my flyball dog during lunch breaks to put on obedience and agility demos at the community pet events when the local members haven't shown up- so I certainly know a fair bit about apathy. Doesn't mean I am not going to try and use some enthusiasm to get the ball rolling with other people too. PS if anyone one wants any info about their local flyball club email the AFA secretary at [email protected] That's great promotion to the general public... in NSW/ACT - what about the other states in Australia? what has been done also to get other clubs and individualsinterested and involved that are already within the dog community? Similar activities occur in Tas, SA, VIC and QLD. Looking at the flyball website I can see there is a Demo and an indoor comp happening at Melbourne Royal. I can't comment on the specifics of other states and exactly where they are involved- but I do see a lot of demos popping up for other states. There have been a few attempts to get a WA team up and running but it is really hard without experienced dogs in the mix to get solid passing etc. The AFA also brings over an international judge for our Nationals- and our National draw is done for us in the US. There have also been trainers who have taken their own time to fly interstate to help out new clubs. ETA- once a club joins the AFA there is also a starter pack sent out to the new club with as much info and assistance that they can provide. We have also had people wanting to form clubs in other areas come to our training session so they can take it back to their club. This happens in other states too.