Jumabaar

My vet is happy to sign that my dogs do not require vaccination, and I do have a copy of their titre tests. So far that has been acceptable to all the clubs I attend- agility, flyball and obedience. I am also more than happy to present them with the relevant scientific papers if they want to question the veterinary certificate.

My dogs are exposed naturally to the diseases we vaccinate against because they are out regularly and because of my work. There are actually studies showing that C3 actually covers 7yrs on a challenge test and the methods have been peer reviewed. A little different to "I read it on the internet", but you do need to do your own research because there are vets out there that haven't kept up to date with the latest vaccination schedules. Also if you look at my link on the first page it shows that the AVA has recommended triennial vaccination for the C3 even if you have the one that is marketed as yearly because the challenge tests prove they do give greater than 1yr of coverage. I guess my point is that tetnus for humans is now every 10yrs, but that is much longer than the initial recommendations due to further studies and research. The same is happening with canine medicine.

I personally wouldnt re vaccinate. Not at that age and with those health problems. Mind you I titre test at 14mths and have rarely had to even give a booster then and my dogs have maintained long term immunity after only their 2 puppy vaccinations. So if you feel uncomfortable not vaccinating titre testing for reassurance may be an option. This is a long and somewhat over the top paper by the World Small Animal Veterinary Association- http://www.wsava.org/sites/default/files/VaccinationGuidelines2010.pdf At the very least based on evidence collected for the WSAVA you can leave three years between vaccinations and remain confident that they are working. The problem being that most vaccine makers still recommend annual vaccination so waiting the three years is technically 'off label' and the Veterinarian needs to get informed consent from each client to decide to not follow the manufactures recommendations- some decide that they want to do this, others dont. The Australian Veterinary Association also recommends three years between boosers for the C3

The cases of Q fever in vet clinic staff that was reported last year was at a practice reasonably local to us. All the vets have already been vaccinated but our practice has now made it a policy that all other staff are also tested and vaccinated. We don't do a lot of breeding work but see enough whelping / queenings / pregnant speys for it to be a concern. If we happen to have un-vaccinated volunteers etc on the premises at the same time as a caesar or whatever they will be asked to leave the premises. I have some friends at the clinic. I find it interesting to see which zoonotic diseases get attention and which don't. I am glad your practice has set up a policy. Although the Q fever vaccine was the most painful on ever! So perhaps is makes sense that people dont want to know about it.

Rabies vaccination can be given as a preventative- for memory it wasnt even that painful Rabies vaccination and immunoglobulins is given post exposure with a bat bite/scratch and the bat should be sent of for testing for Lyssavirus. OT Just a question for anyone who is a breeder on here or a vet nurse- have you been vaccinated for Q fever?

Both. I cared for bats for quite a while so had the rabies shots as a preventative. Feel so sorry for the boy and his family- particularly because you can have post exposure vaccination after a bite or scratch but guessing the parents didn't know he had come into contact with a bat. I always recommend calling a wildlife agency rather than touching a bat but its surprising how many people dont know the risk.

'Sounds like he is trying to sell you a very expensive food. Dogs' stomachs are designed to eat raw meat & they are a lot more tolerant of things like salmonella than we are. How often do you see a dog bury a bone then go back days or weeks later & dig it up & eat it. When a fox kills your chooks, more than he can eat in one go, he will take the rest away & bury them for later. But I am not a vet, so that's just my thoughts :) ETA some kibbles are very rich & need to be introduced slowly. It may be that your dog cannot handle a main ingredient in the kibble like lamb or salmon. Generally dogs can tolerate salmonella etc, but with a dog that clearly has something more going on internally then I would be agreeing with cooking the food. Why put more stress on a compromised system? Also remember that it might not be the food causing the diarrhoea, she may have a bug of some description.Or it may be a type of protein that is disagreeing with her (one of my dogs doesn't tolerate chicken well) but I wouldn't be doing too much swapping and changing until you know what the current pattern is. Perhaps a blood test to see what is going on might be a way forward if you don't see resolution in the next couple of days?

I think i will be more excited once they have started trials etc. I know how long it can take for something to reach the market.

I assume as close to a stuffed toy while stlli breathing. Probably perfect for some weirdos out there.

Perhaps ring Sydney uni and enquire who they use since they would deal with it more commonly.

Mine were sent to the US but that was for 5 puppies each having 3 tests. I think the actual test was only $25, but the shipping was very expensive. But don't rule it out as an option as the Australian lab wanted to charge a couple of hundred for each teat AND it took 6 weeks for them to finally get around to it (after promising a 2 week turn around). I think the 15 tests and shipping cost less than 4 tests here in Aus.

Poor dog. Stupid human.

My dogs are taught soft contact with me rather than straight out bite inhibition, but at that age when they become over stimulated they can quite often bite far to hard which in my books is a 'failure' on my part because I almost always want my dogs to win! This means that when I want to teach things I carefully set them up so that there is an obvious choice for them which earns them a treat rather than set them up to make a mistake. I do rough up my Kelpie when I reward her at dog sports such as Agility and Flyball, but this was introduced after she understood not to bite me as is part of her reward so has rules about how we play and I want her in that heightened excited state. If you want your dog near stock I woudn't really suggest trying to rev them up because you want them calm around sheep.

Sounds like your going great! No advice at this point because it sounds like you have everything covered.

Dont worry my Kelpie was my first dog and she has obedience, flyabll and herding titles! So long as you do a little research and keep asking questions you are going to have a great little mate. I personally find my Kelpies dont really like interacting with strange dogs- they play with dogs in their own 'pack' so to speak but just about all other dogs are ignored. So perhaps if you start seeing signs of her getting frustrated with other dogs take her out of the situation- perhaps pop her in a pen or crate so she learns that walking away from dogs she doesnt want to interact with is a better option then telling them off . My Kelpies will put themselves to bed as soon as my younger cousins walk onto the property because they have learnt that I wont let anything bother them in there. Her play does sound pretty normal though so I wouldnt worry about it too much. I also recommend a few treat toys where they have to work out how to get the food out- it makes them much better thinkers. Handy if they like fetch because they can work out how to get their own balls from behind couches etc :laugh:

I dont rough house my Kelpie pups at all- they dont need any encouragement in that department :laugh: Instead I play games that involve them trying to catch me when I run away to earn a treat. As they understand the game it becomes much more random- I will casually be walking in the back yard then run away so that they chase me for their reward. It means they grow up learning to watch me rather than watch other distractions when we are out on walks because they never quite know when I am going to give them an opportunity to earn a reward by disappearing on them!! Generally my Kelpies thrive from 8 weeks of age trying to learn new tricks such as sit, drop, roll over, shake, wave etc. If you teach them lots of tricks now you will find it easier for them to learn new things when they get older! As soon as I see them getting frustrated (which at 8 weeks may be after 30 seconds) I give them something easy to do such as a watch and end the session. If they are naughty and jump up, growl, bark or generally chuck a tantrum (which can be pretty impressive) I walk away and stop interacting with them. They really thrive on attention so walking away from them into another room is one of the worst punishments my dogs have!

Growing up I would always walk my dog down to the corner store and tie her out the front to buy milk. I could see her and it really was a regular occurrence- you could have e 3 or 4 dogs tethered at once during rush hr :laugh: I wish I had a local corner store so I could still do it but they are few and far between I certainly wouldn't leave them outside a supermarket or anywhere I couldn't see them the entire time. I do regularly walk to the shop with other family members so one of us can pop in and pick things up while the other sits with the dogs.

In the workplace, there are terms and conditions of an employment contract that if breached are sackable offences (i.e. stealing from an employer, divulging confidential/sensitive information etc), regardless of the employees work record, so I would have thought that causing the death of a service dog in a dog related industry through negligence by the handler/carer would result in instant dismissal regardless of the handlers/carers word record. ETA - If causing the death of a service dog through negligence is not considered as grounds for instant dismissal as part of the handlers/carer employment terms and conditions, then it darn well should be - seriously what is a more serious breach of employment than causing the death of a service dog through negligence. I assume the organisation would look at the individuals record and how valuable they are to the organisation. It take a fair bit of knowledge to train these dogs to the point when they can actually go out into service. If they had always followed the rules and had been diligent and careful in the past then sacking this person may mean that they also loose the knowledge to get these dogs into homes. It doesnt even say this person was actually a dog trainer- it may have been someone who deals more with the other aspects of the organisation.

The link to the article in Nature http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature11837.html The news story I noticed http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2013/01/dog-domestication-tied-to-starch.html

I will be putting in my two cents on this issue, there have been some very well thought logical points in this thread up that I will be stealing. I do believe that this could be damaging to breeds when we already have quite a geographical disadvantage when it comes to genetics. Its interesting though you thinking that they would get too much feedback when I have been working in a National organisation who choses to sort through the feedback and do it because they have found it to be very valuable so worth the bother. It should certainly be possible to gather this feedback at a state level but from what people are saying they haven't been given a fair chance to even voice their opinion at that level either- particularly I assume those that are not on DOL, Ozshow etc. And that is I guess that may be where I have the problem- that quite often even after reading my gazette I find myself out of the loop and behind the times and once a decision has been made it is so much harder to reverse it.

As a member of Dogs NSW your opinion is worth twice as much as the smaller states' members. NSW gets two votes on any ANKC motion. Why would you "get shafted" by an organisation that is democratically elected by its members including you? Because of the way the ANKC is set up- there have been decisions made by the ANKC that I didn't even have an opportunity to voice my opinion about until after they have already been made. My point is that I am a member of DogsNSW not the ANKC but it is the ANKC that makes decisions and from what I have seen they are not always scientific, logical. I genuinely feel powerless to make myself heard Nationally or have any great impact on National policy within the pedigree sphere. I personally don't have time to stand for election within DogsNSW so I guess until I win lotto or retire in another 50 odd years I accept the decisions made. I will admit that it is not just this issue that has cause my disillusion but its another example of quite large issues being decided by a very few people with very little evidence on the table. I feel sorry for people who own legally docked dogs and who have to rely on others to voice their opinion for them Nationally. ETA- I should have included moving to a different country in my second paragraph. Which is not something totally out of the realms of possibility :laugh:

I have had pups with them up at 3 weeks to 14 weeks. They can sometimes also go a little floppy when they are teething.

The ANKC Directors from all other states are required to vote on this motion. Most (if not all) will consult with their elected Councils before voting on the motion. Some already have - ask your ANKC Director/s what their vote was. Frankly I think people need to allow the system to operate as it is designed before concluding the end is nigh. If you have so little faith in your currenty elected Councillors to see to your interests, the answer lies in the ballot box at the next elections. damn right. Talk about the doomsday mob. Who would import a dog they knew or even suspected they may not be able breed from?....no one with half a brain. All the checks & balances would be in place before the dog even left its kennel. Rabbiting on about can't pick the puppy you want because....because why? How many puppies are purchased sight unseen every year. It would be in the tens of thousands at least. The breeding attracts the buyers. Rights?....just what rights are being impinged? When you sign up you agree to abide by the rules & by-laws of the organisation. You have the right to vote for the candidate of your choice from your particular area. If you have a concern you can then exercise your rights. You can write a letter of protest to the board, you can vote, you can even stand for election or you exercise the ultimate protest & walk away. Until you decide on any of the above, honour the terms you agreed to when you joined up. Hey it's just like living in society, you exercise your right to vote & when it rolls around you exercise your right to vote again. If you candidate isn't elected? Thems the breaks. if they introduce a carbon tax, they will pay. That's the way it is. I woud not take a puppy with undefended testicles, I wouldn't take a puppy with a crappy bite or missing teeth. I wouldn't take a puppy that was east west in the front or had cowhocks. If I am spending 10k to get a pup I want the lines and the quality in the pup itself and even with Australian puppies when I put in an order I say that I only want the pup if its a good quality specimen. So my puppies are not picked before 8 weeks of age and I may be looking for specific lines but a crap dog is a crap dog and I dont want crappy puppies with good grandparents. There are things I am happy to overlook but there are plenty of deal breakers that I would refuse to have in my lines and I trust the person to make sure my pup doesnt have any of them but how could they know at 2 days of age? I am quite disappointed with the ANKC but since I am only a member of Dogs NSW then apparently my opinion isnt worth much. It would be really nice if this could all be based on proof and scientific evidence rather than emotion and politics. But considering I want to compete in Rally O, Obedience and Herding I guess I just have to accept that I am likely to get shafted by my own organisation some time in the future.

It might be something totally different- but I had to train one of my dogs to take treats when he was distracted because previously I had waited for good behaviour (which there wasnt any because he was distracted) so he got used to not wanting the treats I was carrying around. It took a fair amount of work to teach him that the treats were up for grabs! At first I gave him a heap of treats one after the other regardless of what he was doing until he started to expect/demand the treat- I made sure he was hungry at this stage so there was a little motivation for him to want them- even if he wasnt looking at me and being a bit silly. My criteria was that if he took a treat he got a treat for being a good boy :laugh: . I was then able to start at a greater distance to ask for easy positions and then work up to eye contact and focus because he had finally realised that the treats could still be earnt even if he was distracted. It increased his motivation to the point that I now have quite good focus, and its easy enough to move a meter or two away from any major distraction and get that focus back if he does switch off food. I havent had to do that with any of my other dogs and because they are much more focused and learn things quicker so I could see it being a disaster for them- but perhaps something similar would work? I also became less frustrated because I was getting excited about him taking a treat and interacting with me on any level, rather than focusing on all the stuff that was just beyond him.

If the blue was Bb dd and crossed fawn bb dd then then on average 50%nbof the pups would be Bb dd and 50% bb dd. Oops. yup In Kelpies isabella is fawn and liver is called red or brown. These do look isabella- clearly a dilute but they have brown noses- thus bbdd. I assume there are some other intensity genes that have been used as modifiers if they appear different to a fawn Kelpie. ETA- crossing a blue and a fawn would produce blue puppies in the first generation, and then a mix of fawn and blue in litters there after. Really? I have seen ee yellow/cream Kelpies described as fawn the same as breeds like Pugs, Mastiffs, etc. I have never heard the term fawn used to describe brown dilute in any other breed. The shade of any colour can vary from pale to dark but they are genetically the same colour no matter what the shade. This applies to blue, brown, isabella/lilac and ee red/yellow. Even black varies in intensity. Fawn in a Kelpie is definitely a dilute chocolate/red. http://www.hnrworkingkelpies.com/Diluted_Brown.html ee kelpies should be called cream (although geneticists would call it red but historically it is definitely cream) and are not accepted on the main register although they do exist in WKC lines, they would be quite rare in ANKC lines because of the selection against them. I have not seen an ANKC bred ee Kelpie although I do believe that there was great drama about one prior to me getting my first pedigree Kelpie. This has been quite a big problem overseas (I think italy or somewhere close by) where they have translated the standard wrong and then allowed WKC Kelpies onto their main register and now have creams that have been registered as fawn and fawns that dont really have a colour given to them. Personally the smokey Kelpies just look fawn to me (bbdd) and would be accepted onto the register as such (if they were from ANKC lines). But I guess its like the red cloud Kelpies- every farmer likes to put their own personality and soul into the lines so I am happy to stick with the tradition and call them 'smokey'. ETA- this page also highlights the different range fawn can come in http://www.hnrworkingkelpies.com/Color_Comparison.html I really wouldnt mind if cream were allowed for breeding- all I want is for people to chose a name for a phenotype that matches the genotype to the best of their ability and stick with it. ie calling an ee dog fawn is justing going to stuff people looking at pedigrees around when they assume fawn is bbdd. Just my opinion and in Finnish Lapphunds there are a number of different terms for a fair few phenotypes so its never going to happen. But wishful thinking doesnt harm anyone.