Jumabaar

They do manage to get into the most unusual places- this little dude was rescued (by a snake catcher in the end) from the cat ward of the local RSPCA before he turned into dinner! He was happily released that night. It was mating season and he was very feisty :)

Sweden and Denmark have VERY big Kelpie populations, as well as the other european countries!! They have bigger entries at shows than we do :laugh: They also have more kelpie related products than here too.

Thats cool. I am just putting it out there to try and change the mentality- because your not really 'boosting'. I think that changing the terminology, and really discussing why people are vaccinating (ie to catch non responders, not to boost what has already been done) does more than scare mongering because it is less biased and more straight fact. I didn't mean to pick you out specifically. I think I will start trying to retrain myself out of using the word booster- but I think thats easier said than done because it is so ingrained into me!!

The one year vaccine is not a 'booster'. It is to catch any dogs that do not respond to the puppy course of vaccinations. I titre test and so far none of the ones I have done since doing this have needed their 1year vaccination, nor any further boosting. I assume in my area they would be getting natural exposure.

But I dont see that as upselling either but I wonder if others do? I see it as giving a consumer the choice on what to spend and what risks to take. ie surgery for a ruptured disk in a dog- sometimes medical therapy is the only option, sometimes you should rush in and do surgery, other times you can wait and see for 6 weeks then decide if you do surgery. And then the vet might say that they could refer to a physiotherapist. But sometimes I get the impressions that people think that all options are equal and vets suggest the most expensive course of action as 'upselling' when it is really them not judging their client in any way and laying out all the possible treatment options. The other area this comes up is fluids for surgery. None of my dogs have surgery (even a dental) without fluids. If a vet did either did not automatically provide fluids or did not ask me if I wanted fluids because it is not automatic I would be very unhappy. And yet there have been discussions that this too is 'upselling'. ETA- I am just wondering if there is a gap between what the vet thinks they are saying, and what some clients hear?

What is upsell in a Veterinary clinic? Selling additional products or offering a the full range of treatments available for a condition?

:love:

This really is a big factor. Another consideration is that just about every vet clinic I know of (with the exception of specialist clinics) discount desexing! So the money for that needs to come from somewhere to make ends meet, and yes it does take more than $144 to do major abdominal surgery- assuming the clinic uses sterile equipment for each patient of course. So when someone pays the actual cost of abdominal surgery I am not surprised that they balk at the cost when its not so heavily discounted.

Specialist. Eyes can be painful even if they cant see!! And it doesn't sound like you are getting resolution and wll probably end up costing as much continuing to go to your regular vet.

Watched the video I noticed 1- it didnt discuss how many reactions there were.... you could get that data from 300 reactions which would not be much from 1.2million. (although I do believe it would be greater) but just pointing it ut. 2- they also didnt really quantify which reactions were most common. ie if 99% of the reactions were redness then perhaps this isn't so bad, (once again an exaggeration to prove my point) So yes there was losts of information however there were some key points that could make this video much less worrying that have not been included. NB They were not well covered in the article either. I think that its great to do research but its also important to critically evaluate the source and what they are telling you. This person is clearly biased which made me want to go and read the original article to see if key points were left out- and I do think that there were things left out. Such as the typo of Lepto component is strongly linked in other studies with how much it caused vaccine reactions! Some are highly prone to it, others not so much. ann21- no idea how prolific lepto is in your area but perhaps talk about the risks with your vet and consider titre testing instead of vaccinating. The decision to be vaccinate should be based on risk ie the risk of parvo is great so all puppies should have at least once vaccine after 12 weeks of age. The risk of Lepto in the city here is small so I dont vaccinate against it. If I lived with livestock I would have to reconsider my risk analysis a little more. Jed- I have held off not vaccinating a sick Kelpie pup till 12 weeks of age. Its something all breeders should be aware of and consider with each litter. I do think people just blindly follow the vet (ideally first vaccination shouldnt be till 8 weeks of age to really have any chance of working, however we must vaccinate 2 weeks before puppies leaving home so many do it at 6 weeks). I just dislike information given from such clearly biased sources. I LOVE titre testing. Although uptake with with the general population (who are not as dedicated as the population here on DOL) is not as high.

Horses who have been vaccinated only have antibodies for the G protein, which can be differentiated from from antibodies to the entire, live virus- there are tests for this and they are being used, however they are more expensive so its really only the researchers using them at this stage. It would not be possible for a dog to then test positive from a vaccinated horse as it is only a protein being used in the vaccination rather than the entire virus which is what is used in most Canine and feline vaccines and possibly what your more used to seeing and hearing about. Because its only a protein it means it cant replicate or infect anything else. ETA the last two cases in NSW havent had bat problems either. We just dont know enough about whats going on to say that 'my horses are not at risk' because we dont definitively know what puts them at risk!

fitpaws. That exercise room would seriously be my 'happy place'

From people so much more eloquent than me. I have seen the result of people waiting to hear if the horse they have treated has hendra, even with PPE they were not in a good state of mind. http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=543492932365995&id=368670773181546

One or maybe both of my dogs(can't remember as it was years ago they were tested) showed a high reaction to dust mites. I was given print outs on how to control/kill them and did a fair bit of searching to find products which helped :) That is dedication!!!

Of course your dog hasnt been diagnosed with AD however it might give you a little insight into what options you have. Also as with all things individual specialists will have different opinions on treatments and testing ie I have never heard of anyone trying to control dust mites which is suggest in the article!! http://www.cvm.ncsu.edu/conted/documents/Olivry-January2012VMF.pdf

The other thing that a derm will want you to do is a flea control trial regardless of you seeing fleas because some diagnosis are by exclusion so the only way to rule out fleas is to treat for them and have no improvement. Although the pattern that your talking about makes it unlikely but you may as well be able to walk in having done it already. You can use a topical treatment every two weeks (they will also want you to treat any other animals in the household monthly) or comfortis monthly.

This is a short document about what the world small animal veterinary association suggests regarding vaccination. http://www.wsava.org/sites/default/files/New%20Puppy%20Owner%20Vaccination%20Guidelines%20May%202013_0.pdf

I have also seen it in a dog where the muscles in the eye have atrophied due to old age and just couldn't do their job quite right. The dog was given a clean bill of health and told to continue on his way. It was diagnosed by a specialist.

I am really not sure about how available this is in Aus (or the price of it) but would something like the VacciCheck http://vaccicheck.com assist some of these problems? You would be able to identify dogs that do have antibodies and know that the risk is lower than a dog with no current antibodies? It wouldn't stop the need for quarantine- but it would identify the high and low risk animals which would then feedback into peoples decision making process to make better choices in selecting the right animals for individuals to foster and how to move them. It also feeds back into awareness of people doing the transport etc since they would be told that these animals had no protection.

I tend to start off without bait in my hand and just wait around for to give me a stand and then say yes and then pull out the treat for them. If they sit I just move back a little so that they get up themselves and say yes and give them a treat so that they understand the treat is for bottom off the ground. Once they understand its bottom off the ground that is getting them the treat I can start to bait them without them getting confused and sitting. That all said my puppies are taught to sit as well as stand and they know the difference between the cue that you get a reward for your bottom on the ground and the cue where you wont get a reward with your bottom on the ground. You just have to make sure you do them an equal number of times to ensure that the sit is not more rewarding in the puppies mind. Also my puppies all need a little assistance to have a judge go over them for the first few months. Having a stranger come up and lean over can be very scary, so even if they do free stack I tend to come down to their level just incase they do spook at something random.

They have to run the pound somehow. Where I used to work it was around $20. That doesn't cover a skerrick of the cost of rehoming an animal. I dont disagree with a fee of some description- possibly around same as euthanasia at the local vet so that people take the decision seriously since that is what may be the result anyway. That said some dogs are better off in the pound- rehomed or at least being fed and having shelter so I guess no easy answers. I do think on the whole that surrendering should have a small consequence to try and discourage people going and replacing their pets. I do disagree with a higher fee to rehome since I think that all dogs should have that as an option assuming they are mentally and physically sound enough.

I would do a third- the three vaccines are not 'boosters' they are just trying to catch when the maternal antibodies decrease and the vaccine can actually work (you could wait till 12+ weeks and only ever give one shot). This most reliably happens after 12weeks of age, although the link above does show that some vaccines do have better response. I would probably err on the side of caution after seeing a pup that didnt respond at 10.5 weeks of age.

If you don't find answers perhaps a veterinary dermatologist would be the way to go? Ear infections can often be related to allergies which Derms are good at dealing with. Although from what the other posters have described you may have good vets who will really work through the problem anyway

Desexing bitches can make them even worse. I would suggest checking them out health wise and seeing a veterinary behaviourist to see if there is anything else you could do before desexing them (not saying not to do it in the long term, just to start working on the problem before you change the situation again). Either way I doubt desexing is going to HELP the situation. Perhaps look at complete separation until you can get some advice. As others have said once you have a big fight you will probably have to do this anyway, so being cautious now and getting help may prevent this.

I taught stay by very gently pushing my pup- when she resisted she got a yes and reward. At first it was so little that she hardly moved at all, just a shift in balance. It meant I got lots of chances to reward her keeping her weight down and centred. Only once we had the concept that stay meant keeping your balance down and centred did I start to move away and challenge her more. It meant I didn't have creeping because she wasnt 'staying still' for the stay she was keeping her butt firmly planted as the exercise. I would be rewarding when he is well in a balanced sit lots before moving off so that you have a good reward history for not moving. Like wuffles my girl is sensitive so if I start having her 'fail' more than 10% of the time she will start to check out. That being said once she learnt what I wanted I set her up to fail on purpose 10% of the time so she learnt the boundaries.