Maddy

I've had dogs come back to stay while their owners were on holiday but it wasn't expected of me and the owners always offered to pay and always dropped off/collected the dog. I know the dogs would be more comfortable with me than in kennels so if I have space, I'm happy to do it. That said.. if I had an adopter who behaved like the woman described, I'd be putting my foot down. Offering to help when needed is already above and beyond the usual (the RSPCA certainly don't offer that sort of support) and abusing that offer is shitty behaviour.

One of my greys, Jelly, has donated several times for emergencies at a couple of different clinics. The procedure itself doesn't seem to bother her and she usually scores herself a treat of some sort.

Shitty Whippet and Idiot Dog both got beds this year. Shitty Whippet got this one in medium because she spends so much time burrowed under blankets that I thought she'd love it. She got given the bed a few weeks ago and so far.. yeah, no. Idiot Dog got the usual, one of these and I expect, as usual, he'll lay over the sides and by March, the foam will be a flattened mess. Idiot Dog is also getting his own extension to the house but that won't be finished until February, provided we can get it done without killing each other in the mean time.

I guess on a really hairy dog that probably doesn't matter so much? Once their hair gets wet, things are going to get pretty boggy in there anyway. That said, if the coat dries out, the dog would cook. Idiot Dog's next birthday present is going to be the Ruffwear swamp cooler. It looks similar in material to the Hurrta but being a much smaller vests, should be lighter and breathe better. And it has a bit if a chest panel, which should help a lot on a short-haired dog. Cooling used to be something I didn't worry about so much (aircon alone was always fine) but the last few years have been really extreme- this year* was coldest winter in decades, driest Spring on record and now shaping up to be hottest summer recorded :/ Some nights they need their fleece coats on, other nights I worry about how hot they feel. Edit- *For Tasmania, not sure what's going on for you mainland people.

Of all the different cool coats I have, the only one I really like is the K9 Cool Coat by Saratoga Horseworks, bought from Clean Run. The poly mesh blocks UV rays (which is very useful when you have a mostly white dog), it's very light but still manages to hold water for cooling. Even once it dries out, it keeps the sun and flies off. And it only cost $40-something from the US, compared to the Cool Champion which was $100. My opinion of some of the others.. the Cool Champion holds a lot of water but it seems really heavy and thick and definitely couldn't be allowed to dry out. Breathes pretty badly, too. The Hurrta cool coats have some of the same problems as the Cool Champions. They hold a lot of water but they're heavy, bulky and couldn't be allowed to dry at all because they're very thick. I also have a generic microfibre toweling cool coat and although it's a pretty basic cool coat, it'd actually be my second choice. It's light, holds a decent amount of water and is thin enough to breathe. It's definitely nothing flash but can be chucked in the fridge easily to give it a bit more chill if needed. I did have a chamois cooling coat around somewhere but after forgetting to put it back in its storage bag, it went rock hard and got chucked in the spare room because I didn't have time to soak it back to soft again. Can't remember what the brand of that one was.

My thoughts were the same. I've been bitten by the derper dog on the leg and the bruising was terrible and lasted for several weeks (and I don't normally bruise easily), despite no broken skin at all. I'd guess two Franga bogans had a fight, one was unfortunate enough to have an unregistered bull breed and the female Franga bogan decided to get the last lick in by having his dog killed.

As someone whose mother died a slow horrible prolonged death at 65 from Parkinson's, this gives me hope. While I vehemently oppose testing cosmetics or food additives or such on animals; I make no apology for supporting this kind of medical research. I realise this will make me unpopular here, so be it. I think I want to change my reply ,,, I am sorry to hear that I know we all want to live longer and testing animals, There should be a limit and regulated.,,,, Gavin888, no need to change your reply - you are just as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. Sorry if MY answer made you feel uncomfortable. I wish we didn't have to test medical stuff on animals; I really do. But there doesn't seem a way around it. I only hope that it is done humanely and with a high degree of concern for their welfare. Testing for cures for diseases cannot be done on human beings - so how do we discover new cures and advances in disease treatment? Something tells me that I may be sticking my head in the sand. But my mother.... Her death scared me and devastated me since it took so long. I cannot stomach any other kind of animal testing. To subject any other living thing for a waterproof mascara or get slim quick pill seems immoral. I know that's probably a contradiction, but that's me - a contradiction. Oh, and welcome. Given China doesn't exactly have a great reputation when it comes to animal welfare, I'd be very worried about even basic needs being met correctly. China and their GM/cloning programs have been in a news a bit lately and some of it goes even beyond concerns for basic welfare- things like the cloning of endangered animals. They claim it's for conservation purposes but how long until there are factory farms churning out endangered animals to be harvested for their various valuable bits and pieces? That might sound a bit alarmist but we are talking about the same country where dogs, foxes and cats are skinned alive for fur, just to make cheap clothing for export :/

Because there's no way that could go terribly wrong or anything.

Cream is not listed as a colour option on the Greyhound database. I've seen some very, very pale fawns. As has been said before what colour a dog is registered as may be different to what they actually are. Yep, that's what I'm thinking. Probably lots of incorrect colour namings, given all the things that can change what we see. On the bright side, more accurate and generally knowledgeable on matters relating to colour than the general public. I had a pound contact me to say they had a brown greyhound so I asked for a picture, thinking it very odd that we'd have a dun show up here in a pound but yeah, no. It was a thoroughly black greyhound with some kennel coat *eye roll* As for fawn.. it's usually "tan", "beige" or one time.. "camel".

Sable is at the bottom of the K hierarchy (K, kbr, k). "Red" in greyhounds is sable so it's actually a sable to sable mating, which should NEVER produce black because both dogs should be kk. As for the colour originating in Australia, I'd call bullshit on that also. Premier Fantasy's sire was Irish. His pedigree is mostly Irish dogs (with a few US dogs) until it gets back to the 1890s where it was UK dogs, until records runs out in 1820. I'd be very interested in seeing what information the author drew her conclusions from. The author’s source on the dun colour was an article entitled Colour Inheritance in the Greyhound by Gavin Fitzpatrick, written in 1996. Mr Fitzpatrick was at the time of writing the article Keeper of the Australian & New Zealand Stud Book for Greyhounds He was also Secretary of the National Coursing Association of Victoria Inc. and his wife had been a greyhound breeder and trainer tor many years. Her notes on the origins of the colour were derived from discussions in the greyhound press after the article was published. The author goes on to note: "Colour Inheritance in the Greyhound" is definitely not a work I'd be quoting to support that conclusion, mostly because Fitzpatrick does not reach that conclusion. At no point does he say that dun is anything other than what it is (regular liver). From looking through that bit again, it seems the woman who wrote the whippet article has gotten a little bit confused- He says more or less what I've said above and elsewhere through the thread: that dun is a modified black, that breeding a solid dun (as opposed to a dun fawn or a dun brindle) to a regular fawn or brindle will result in black pups because all duns must be at least Kk, giving a 50% chance for black. Regarding origin of the gene, the UK or Ireland would always be the most obvious places because they are where the breed came from, was developed and exported heavily from. Unbacked speculation (that contradicts at least 200 years worth of records and really makes no sense) should be taken with a grain of salt.

Sable is at the bottom of the K hierarchy (K, kbr, k). "Red" in greyhounds is sable so it's actually a sable to sable mating, which should NEVER produce black because both dogs should be kk. As for the colour originating in Australia, I'd call bullshit on that also. Premier Fantasy's sire was Irish. His pedigree is mostly Irish dogs (with a few US dogs) until it gets back to the 1890s where it was UK dogs, until records runs out in 1820. I'd be very interested in seeing what information the author drew her conclusions from.

But there's no mention of e being present in whippets or any evidence to suggest it does. The author of the whippet page also makes some very basic mistakes in genetics so I'd not take any of it as gospel. The actual genes responsible for pigment intensity outside of ee haven't been proven (and may differ in certain breeds anyway) so it's really just speculation.

Urajiro is the name given to that modifier for shibas. In greys it's fallow. From looking at the pictures in your link, deer seems to be the same thing. Interestingly, rabbits also carry something similar, called otter. Also, while I was scrolling through, I noticed the bit about "cream" whippets. The author says the it's not "true" liver but liver nose and eye rims would suggest that it probably is. She notes cream dogs can produce black or blue pups and assumes from that that it masks those colours in cream dogs, which seems unlikely. More likely is that it's liver and modifies black to liver but if the other parent doesn't also carry liver, you get black (or possibly blue) pups, very much as you'd expect from that gene. The claim that cream dogs bred to fawns produced brindle pups also doesn't mean much because.. K is dominant to kbr (which would hide brindle) so assume the cream dog is Kkbr (which is black carrying the recessive brindle on the other side of the locus), mated to a fawn dog who is kk (non-black, non-brindle, this is lowest on the hierarchy). So.. K kbr k k 50% chance of black pups 50% chance of brindle pups No new or unusual genes going on here, besides whatever lightens the pigment. On the topic of pigment, I've seen several whippets who had fully pigmented (black) eye rims and noses but appeared almost white so I'd guess this modifying gene is not unique to these liver-nosed dogs. I'd assume it'd be something on the I locus and might be linked to b in whippets, which would explain why you'd see genetically black dogs with it but you'd never see a fully pigmented liver whippet without it (if that makes sense?). interestingly this website suggests dogs with the recessive red gene (ee) may have a lighter pigment in the nose and eye rim even though they have the black marker, this could be why they say in cream whippets it's not true liver http://www.doggenetics.co.uk/masks.html edit: here's a whole page on nose colour.... http://www.doggenetics.co.uk/noses.html For that to be true in whippets, they'd have to carry recessive red. I've never seen a "red" greyhound or whippet who didn't also have black hairs, meaning even examples that look very "red" in pigment aren't r red, just sables.

Urajiro is the name given to that modifier for shibas. In greys it's fallow. From looking at the pictures in your link, deer seems to be the same thing. Interestingly, rabbits also carry something similar, called otter. Also, while I was scrolling through, I noticed the bit about "cream" whippets. The author says the it's not "true" liver but liver nose and eye rims would suggest that it probably is. She notes cream dogs can produce black or blue pups and assumes from that that it masks those colours in cream dogs, which seems unlikely. More likely is that it's liver and modifies black to liver but if the other parent doesn't also carry liver, you get black (or possibly blue) pups, very much as you'd expect from that gene. The claim that cream dogs bred to fawns produced brindle pups also doesn't mean much because.. K is dominant to kbr (which would hide brindle) so assume the cream dog is Kkbr (which is black carrying the recessive brindle on the other side of the locus), mated to a fawn dog who is kk (non-black, non-brindle, this is lowest on the hierarchy). So.. K kbr k k 50% chance of black pups 50% chance of brindle pups No new or unusual genes going on here, besides whatever lightens the pigment. On the topic of pigment, I've seen several whippets who had fully pigmented (black) eye rims and noses but appeared almost white so I'd guess this modifying gene is not unique to these liver-nosed dogs. I'd assume it'd be something on the I locus and might be linked to b in whippets, which would explain why you'd see genetically black dogs with it but you'd never see a fully pigmented liver whippet without it (if that makes sense?).

Thanks for showing this pic Maddy, because it saved me embarassing myself by saying I had never seen a dun in a showbred greyhound. eta and he threw several dun offspring. Being an OS dog, I'd guess maybe they have a bit more dun floating around than we do. Importing is probably not as common in racing dogs as it is in showbred so I imagine we'll eventually see dun showies down here from imported dogs, sooner or later. And this dog has another interesting thing that I only know in whippets is called "deer marked" it's that lovely pale underside it has. I have a friend with a deer marked whippet but she is a much paler fawn and you can hardly see the deer marking anymore. I wonder if that means whippets also carry urajiro? It should be possible, seeing as that gene seems to have been present for quite some time in greyhounds. In theory, there should also be the possibility of dun, although in whips it may have already been lost.

A dun fawn- Edit, this dog is also fallow :D edit-edit, so really, not actually dun fawn but dun fallow. Also.. Dun fawn parti!

well if you can get dilute blacks and dominate livers in greyhounds then I guess you could get a dilute liver, google isn't giving me an example though :p most of the dilute looking greys that aren't blue look more recessive red (ee) than dilute liver (bbdd) Liver is a recessive on a different locus so perfectly possible. I think the only reason we haven't yet seen one is because dun is still uncommon enough not to have paired up two dogs with the right genes. A greyhound that was K Bb Dd (black) bred to another with the same genes could produce isabella, even though both parents were black. It's just a matter of chance, unless those dogs were DNA colour tested and specifically selected.

Pretty much. Liver nose, liver dog. Slate nose, blue dog. Black nose, dog doesn't have double copy of liver or blue gene, although it may carry one. Back when I first got involved in greyhounds, dun was incredibly rare but with people figuring out who still carries the gene, they're popping up more often and with more variation in the other things they carry, such as brindle and parti. Give it time and eventually, we'll see an isabella greyhound. What I actually had in mind was a dachshund breeder who seems only to breed for the "rare" colours, pretty much the same old story as with staffords and a few other breeds with "rare" (or disqualifying) colours. Once it gets itself spread back through the gene pool, we'll be up to our necks in dun greyhounds :p Blue is a good example of that as it's also a recessive. You could have a pile of black dogs and within that pile, a significant portion could be carriers for blue, which means the gene just needs to pair up to get a 25% chance per pup of being blue. In some ways, it's incredibly lucky that the dun gene wasn't lost and that with each roll of the genetic dice, it was passed down through a few lines until we finally started seeing pairs. And once you have pairs, those dogs can only pass on dun, which means even if bred to a BB dog, all pups will be Bb and breeding back to another dun will give you a 50% chance per pup of dun. Edit- unless those dogs aren't K. In which case, you'd have dun sable (red or fawn or whatever you want to call it) or dun brindle. I've seen a few dun brindles around but I don't think I've ever seen a dun sable. A dun sable would appear as basically fawn but with liver nose, amber eyes and liver instead of black hairs through the coat.

Really? No comformation breeder I know breeds for colour. That's the last thing on their mind. *cough* Blue staffords, etc *cough* (Wasn't refering to show greyhound breeders there, if that's what you thought- just show breeders generally. And some do breed for colour) If they did, they'd be able to take steps to ensure we didn't lose dun as a colour. I'll be honest, I'm not a fan of dun but I'd hate to see it lost when preserving it is as simple as identifying any new lines (besides ones we already know about, like Rocket Jet) and then screening the carriers careful for the epilepsy/neurological blindness before setting up a breeding program, with a focus on diversity in sires to spread the gene evenly among not just the popular lines but also some of the more obscure (because we want to encourage breeding back out of lines). And then there's potential for better understanding of how pigment intensity is inherited and whether or not s is actually able to express partially from a single copy, as is currently suspected. I was recently looking back through some photos of foster dogs and noticed that there wasn't a single dog who didn't have white marking so greyhounds would be perfect for testing out how S works. On the topic of genes, mandatory screening for certain health issues wouldn't go astray, either. The epilepsy/neuro blindness I mentioned above seems to be becoming more prevalent and can be traced back to a couple of VERY popular sires. I've had two dogs from the same sire (and different but related dam lines) with the condition and it's a terrible thing that is completely preventable: work out who carries it, restrict breeding amongst those lines until the genes concerned have been lost. Breeding for physical fitness is obviously very important but there also needs to be a focus on genetic fitness. IGs don't come in brindle, do they? I was just looking at the breed standard and also noticed seal wasn't mentioned. Which reminds me of the speculation that greyhounds might also be capable of carrying seal, although from what I've seen, it's always been just kennel coat that doesn't return once the dog has been stripped out and changed to a better diet. I have met a (divine) little seal iggy before though and there was no doubt about her colour.

Your suggestion doesn't really make sense because what a colour is visually doesn't necessarily tell us what the dog is genetically. A black dog could be K, it could be aa, it could even be at with masking heavy enough to obscure any tan. Knowing exactly what colour a dog appears to be, is really of no value, especially where the same gene is given several different names (red, red fawn, fawn, for example) for shades. Those "shades" are neither here nor there if those dogs all carry the same colour genes and getting rid of the outdated distinctions (where no real distinction exists) is the first step to tidying the whole mess up. The purpose of naming by genetic colour is that it would make naming uniform and easier for people to understand. That's my opinion. On the topic of greyhounds, colour recording for race presentation is essentially obsolete. All dogs presented to race are identified by ear brand and/or microchip at their vet check. DNA recording has also made it more or less obsolete in confirming accurate breeding records. Racing bred greyhounds are almost never bred for colour so there is no pressing need to know who is what. This might be different for conformation breeders who focus on certain colours but again, DNA would be the best method of ensuring you had exactly the genes you wanted.

Same as SSM, all sighthounds here and experienced both types of fights, although mostly just between foster dogs or foster dogs and my own dogs- my own have never had actual fights amongst themselves, fortunately. Of our current dogs, Shitty Whippet and Idiot Dog have never even gotten close (he tends to back off first, despite being three times her size) and Jelly Bean and Spotty have had a few noisy spats, all over food, never any injuries and all started by Jelly. In the past, Jelly has fought with other foster dogs and she can be short-tempered and prone to over-reacting, one of the reasons she stayed with us rather than being rehomed. She's generally all noise and bluster but with another female, I have no doubt it could escalate to something much more serious so she does not share space with the Shitty Whippet. In addition to that, Idiot Dog does not cope well with big dogs (even though he is one) so he and Shitty Whippet have one space, Jelly and Spotty have the other- everyone is safe and both pairs are happy. I do miss being able to have all four in together (as we did when Kiff and Sally were still alive) but with everyone's various quirks, I can't see it ever working or being safe. I've seen as many fights as I need to see to understand that sometimes "ideal" isn't realistic.

Black and gold GSDs are black and gold or black and tan. Sable GSDs are sable or grey. Sables are not called black and gold. Mahogany - there's no such colour in GSDs although some breeders, particularly overseas, do use it to describe rich red gold colour. Black and gold is either sable or B&T genetically though (heavy masking or the subjective nature of determining colour based on phenotype alone could make it one or the other). What GSD people call "sable" is actually agouti. It's another case of colours being named one thing while they're genetically something else entirely. The point I was trying to make is that we apply different colour names to things that are genetically the same, we apply incorrect names all over the place and we names things after colours they don't really even resemble. And given a move to a genotype-based and universal system of colour naming doesn't seem likely any time in the near or distant future.. might as well get used to it.

Yep, it occurs in other breeds, too. In greyhounds, it's often hard to spot because of things like masking or particolour. And colour recording is done by phenotypical colour, with a lot of it being subjective, so far as red, red fawn and fawn goes, making it impossible to say just how common it actually is.

I'd guess most fallows are recorded as fawns because genetically speaking, they are sables (as are reds), the only difference is the urajiro modifying the appearance slightly. On the other hand, masking is not affected by urajiro so a dog genotypically urajiro that is also genotypically heavily tipped sable may be phenotypically just the tipped sable, if it covers up the urajiro. Such a dog may be recorded as a fawn because that's what we see and given it's much of a muchness with sable anyway, I don't suppose it really matters, even if it isn't entirely correct. Having said that (of course :p ) I guess it also depends on where you draw the line so far as relatively minor modifiers go. We have a colour name for a modifier that isn't terribly common (fallow) but on the other hand, masking is also a modifier and in all the sable dogs I've had, incredibly common. But for whatever reason, we don't draw distinctions between masked or not, even though they are also genetically different. To further complicate things, we have red and fawn, even though the only practical difference is pigment intensity, which seems to be a lot like the rufus modifier in rabbits in that it appears to be somewhat random. I think the trouble with a lot of breed colour names is that they were devised before we really understood what was what. If we removed minor modifiers in greyhounds and named according to genotypic colour, we have black, blue, dun, sable, brindle and white. Although for the purpose of correct recording of colour, I suppose you'd also have to include all potential variations of those colours, such as blue sable or dun brindle. Although at least if things were named by genetic colour, it'd make the whole colour system pretty uniform between breeds and much less confusing.

Oh please Sick isn't it. I scrolled down a bit and noticed a "woe is me, teh intehwebs is so mean" cartoon he posted, captioned with: Silly experts, telling him that dead dogs mean he's doing it wrong.