Vickie

Thanks everyone, it certainly was a good experience for us, one that will definitely be repeated as often as we can. No, it would not have been appropriate nor practical to do so. I tried to take some video the week before, but I was there by myself & had no-one to move the camera around. The distances from the tripod were too great so you can hardly even see us.

We just had the most awesome day! We helped muster real sheep on a real property for vaccinating. It was an opportunity of a lifetime and it sure beats poking around with 5-6 dogged sheep in an arena. It was really amazing to watch Trim steady in her work & be part of a team of dogs getting a job done. I am on such a high She was so amazing & truly contributed to getting the work done. She was given some nice accolades by people I suspect don't give them very often & that was certainly the icing on the cake. Little Shine did her bit as well. She helped out a bit in the yards & I was thrilled to watch her starting to read her sheep & well. She is showing incredible confidence & calmness for a young dog and seems to have a very sensible head on her shoulders. Now I just have to wait for her body to catch up No time for pics today! Too busy My body is so tired, covered in sheep youknowwhat & I stink but my mind is buzzing.

There is a large agililty trial on in Newcastle that weekend, so I would think it'd be hard to get many people who are within travel distance as they will all be at the trial.

I think it depends on the dog LL. I think different dogs require different levels of repetition, certainly in agility & in other things as well. Lots of dogs bark continually in agility. I think it's a personal choice for the handler. One of my dogs used to bark the whole way around the course, it bothered me, so my current dog doesn't. I'm not sure it has anything to do with being a working line BC though...you don't see/hear many dogs barking at sheep trials. I am not even sure that Buzz is a working line BC, but may be wrong. There are heaps of video's of him running online. I can find them if you like.

It's interesting that with a dog the expectation is that the dog will resist the pressure whereas with a horse the horse will yield to pressure. Predator v prey response I suppose. I'm pretty sure that horses have an opposition reflex just as dogs do.

Thanks Haven, I have not heard of that one.

I think it is because it is as natural for us to apply pressure to a leash as it is for an animal to reflex against that pressure. Restraint is used in many dog sports, the aim of it is to get the dog to pull and it is a very successful method. I do it all the time. How is the dog to understand when pulling is OK & whan it is not? I think as humans we do it (apply force to the leash) all the time, from when our dogs are pups. I think we teach them to pull and then try to correct it later.

I am constantly surprised by the number of people who accept that their dogs bite or try to bite them. It doesn't matter what the breed, I don't think it is acceptible & I think sometimes people literally have to be told this to believe it. It doesn't matter whether it is a frustrated nip in agility or a bite requiring stitches or worse. The last thing any breed needs right now is blanket statements about biting & I think I was right to address this publicly. I am sure there are more relevant books than the 2 I have posted, they are just 2 that I have, but they certainly address the issue and I belive there are others who could benefit from reading them. I am also sure that some of the people who have posted unconstructively in this thread could suggest those more releveant books. I guess my request that people be constructive was idealistic. It is so unfortunate that DOL has lost so many people who could and should have been helped. I think everyone deserves a clean slate. I can think of a number of people who started on DOL in a very similar way to Andoria. They are now liked & respected members of this community & I believe she deserves the same opportunity. Some people communicate poorly, but since she did join the forum, I believe she will be open to help if people are prepared to be constructive.

Don't worry about it. I will PM it. Obviously you disagree with my advice & consider it completely useless to any other person who may read it. I will have this topic deleted. Thank you both for respecting my wishes & being so constructive in what I consider to be a VERY serious issue.

Primarily because it didn't occur to me. Thinking about it, I wouldn't have anyway. Why would/should I?

PS, Could anyone who wants to be nasty or non constructive please post somewhere else (or NOT AT ALL!) This is a serious issue & bitterness will not help her or her dog.

I am very concerned about this statement. I don't believe his breed is a reason or an excuse for his biting and I am worried about your implied acceptance of this. I know you have had a bad experience with a trainer, but I hope you also understand that some action needs to be taken if the above is true. Can I suggest a couple of books for you? Culture Clash, Jean Donaldson & The Other End of the Leash, Patricia McConnell. I offer this with genuine intentions. If you are unable to find/buy them, I am happy to lend you my copies. They will not fix the issue but they are very good insights into why dogs do what they do. Obviously your best option is to get some qualified & reputable professional help, but the books may be a start. Vickie

Yes, I am sitting here watching something very amusing right now. I have a sliding screen door out the back that the dogs can open. They are in & out of the house, but outside at the moment. None of my dogs individually will open the door AND come in...but... The girls open in but do not enter, then the boys come in. The girls wait to see whether I have noticed that the boys are in. If after a minute I say/do nothing, then they come in. If I send they boys back out, then there they are looking all innocent. LOL, I don't think they know that it is them opening the door. It's like a pack conspiracy.

Personally I would like to see the trainer come on here & explain her methods. My first thought when I read your original post was that your choice of words about what she did with your dog were inflammatory, dramatic and possibly exagerrated. You need to take some responsibility for this situation, since it was you who originally started the discussion. Had you worded the events differently or not given the level of detail you did, I doubt she would have received any emails or she may have received some constructive ones rather than "hate" mails. You chose to list her website on a public forum & your comments about her were defammatory. It is only right that she has the opportunity to come onto DOL, if she believes in her methods to explain her side of the story. It may be that her side of the story is completely different and I think she deserves the right to clear her name & reputation.

Brown and black were tested for - we have both around the property, mainly black near the house and browns out in the paddocks. Funnily enough we had seen a black snake in the backyard earlier that day, although Abby was inside when we saw it. I have heard of a number of snakes out of their normal habitat lately. Any possibility of a tiger snake? I think they have a similar time frame to browns for venom to hit.

I'm sorry N&E, I misunderstood...both on the walking and on the amount of time spent with him. He sounds like a very lucky pup and gets more attention than many. Yes, I know EXACTLY what it is like to walk with a toddler, LOL, veeerrrry slow! I was lucky with the park thing. I only had one small child at a time, so was manageable with a dog.

I'm just so sorry. What an awful tragedy for you. I hope you find out to put your mind at rest a little. RIP Abby. ETA, what snake did they test for? Just browns or others as well? The warning bark is odd & makes me think there was something in the room. The time period fits with the running around, moving it through her bloodstream. Mine certainly give a weird growl for big lizards, thank goodness they have never seen a snake.

How much time do you actually spend with him each day? More than the hour or so stated above? Do you spend much time in the backuyard with him? Do your children play in the backyard while he is out there?Can he see your living area from outside? While I agree with what everyone has said about ignoring or asking for an incompatible behaviour, he also sounds like a pup who wants to interact with the family a bit more. Personally I would be swapping one of his walk times for a play/hang out time. I think 40 minutes leash walk/day is too much for a young growing pup, especially one who is going to be big. Can you drive him to the park & play with him there?

You guys will be great! Demo's are fun & a great way to practice in different atmospheres. A bit of nerves are a good thing, it'll give you an indication of where you're at & let you see what you need to work on. Just smile & have a good time.

What a cute little guy! He looks so happy to please and obviously loves his tricks.

Yep! That's the one I met, I knew I'd recognise the name if I heard it.

Mrsdog, are you entering the ADC games trial on 3rd March? I saw a post from Maverick on the agility list, she's looking for a 400 Novice partner for Mai...but you better be quick.

Castle Hill showground on the 3rd March. It is a Games trial & all but 2 events will be games. It'd be great if you come along. It's sure to be entertaining. Come & say Hi . I'm sure you'll have no trouble working out who we are from the pics I have loaded. There are a few other merles, but mine have the long legs

I don't think that was it, but I could be wrong I'm pretty sure her name is Joanne Well I guess I'll have to take a pic next time I see him. He looks a lot like Tia, from the pics you have put up of her. He's a really happy little guy.

I can't remember. I'd probably know it if you said it.