Vickie

changing

No, it doesn't surprise me, I didn't say she was better at rears, I said you look more comfortable doing rears (I mean physically). I can't see that in these runs. In the first one, she is really moving & you are ahead of her most of the course & giving her clear directions. The only issues I really see with this run (other than a bit of timing) is that the only places it goes wrong is when you try to front cross when you are behind her. That's not to say that it can't be done, but I am not sure there is an advantage in it. If you are going to try to FC from behind, she will need to learn to wrap around you a little better and come to the hand presented. Lots of different reasons for this. I think often we cause this by giving them a bad line to the obstacle. Lots of very small, 1-2 sequences should fix this as well as your own commitment level. I was watching a guy run this morning. His handling method was to put his arm up to signal a jump & then drop it. The dogs response was to pull off every time his arm drop. As soon as he disconnected from the obstacle, so did the dog. It is certainly something I have had to work on. What about on curves? Seems like her drive on a straight is very good, probably a result of your exercises. Will have a look, but basically it is just teaching them to follow your hand and that whichever hand is out is the one they will be rewarded from. Ready, set go game? Great news! Lots of these small exercises can only be a good thing. I just went & did some little videos, will put them in the Agility Foundation thread, some of them are relevant to the above.

not me...although I certainly agree with it. Here is a very short clip of me starting balancing with my pup. You can see how I use the rake to help her make the right choices about going around the sheep rather than sticking with me. I am sure there are better examples but it should show the way you can influence how they move in a small area. Each time she makes the right choice I tell her "good girl". I would also thoroughly recommend taking her somewhere for training. What are your goals with her?

Thank you! Trim has been working in a paddock for quite a while. She has always had a very strong sense of balance, so it doesn't really matter where we are or how big the paddock is, her job has always been to bring me the sheep since pretty much day one. I'd love to see them. No need to be embarrassed. I know all about dogs thinking they know better, that has always been Trim's motto on sheep. Problem is mostly she's right The instinct she was born with will probably always surpass what I have learnt. I can see quite a difference in Shine already, she is a lot more willing to give to me, not sure how much of it is "her" and how much is my increased confidence and experience.

You're right, they are much better runs . I think your timing is a heap better and you are certainly driving her through the courses more, but you are still a little late . She still is not getting information about her turns until she is in the air or landing. I can also see you going through something that I struggled with a lot...when you are not late, you are rushing a little & letting go of her. It's really hard to find that balance where you are ahead but still hanging on. I think I have it pretty much under control now but it has taken a lot of work. They key to it is to be able to be ahead of your dog mentally but still connected physically. I see you do it on a straight really well where you are running ahead but still controlling her line with your hand signals, you just need to practice this on a curve & a turn. Suggestions: I think stronger leadouts could help her and making sure she is positioned correctly behind the first jump, so that she can see what is coming rather than always starting straight on. She needs some leading hand exercises, so that she is more willing to come to the hand you present & come a little closer. Figure 8's around uprights would help as well with a reward on the turn. You broke the golden rule of crosses a number of times in those runs. In order to front cross, you must be ahead of your dog & in order to rear cross, you must be behind. In general you seem to be more comfortable with rears. I would be doing a lot more front crosses with her as it will help you to drive her through the course. Practice some send to tunnels, she seems to have some issues with these when you cross behind. Once you have done some leading hand exercises, she will get more comfortable with you moving in front of her. Right now, your front crosses are done on the spot and you will need to practice being able to move though them so you are covering ground yourself as you perform the cross. This has probably been my biggest challenge as a handler & the reason I never did front crosses. Now that I am comfortable moving though them I would say I do at least 2, maybe 3 fronts to every rear. :rolleyes: Sounds like a lot, but it's not really & most of it is centred around the same issue....and you did ask... I'll have to get some video of me running for you to critique & pay me back. I rarely (probably never) do a run where I cannot see something to improve. We have made a heap of progress lately b/c I have made the effort to go set up every challenge I meet that I am unhappy with & fix it. It makes such a difference b/c I am no longer looking at courses & planning ways to avoid our weaknesses...as time goes by our weaknesses are getting less & a trial is a great opportunity to practice my latest training. Sometimes I am even running a course differently just so that I can include a practice of an issue we have worked on. Hope this makes sense. it's just my opinion, I am sure others may disagree or see things differently.

OK I'm going to be brutal here (and please don't think I am being a know-it-all bitch, b/c I have (or have had)many of the same issues as a handler & in my training) She is not slow, but honestly, you are late with your commands a lot. Basically she runs according to your speed, if you are careful, so is she ( I have certainly had this problem, but am managing to get over it a lot lately) From the video, these are the things I saw Clip 1: Independent Contacts would give you an extra 2-3 secs over a course. She nearly goes off course b/c you have disconnected with her at one point (I used to do this heaps, but am getting better) Clip 2: You nearly got lost & were unsure about where to go, so was she, at least a second or 2 of time lost You are also late giving her information in a number of turns so she is wide, again 2-3 seconds over a course Clip 3: weaves are dependent on you for entry & to stay beside her Her turns are a bit wide again b/c you are late Clip 4: When you take off & run on the home stretch she is really driving hard, b/c you are & she knows exactly where to go. That is what she is capable of...you just need to trust her. And if you blow a few runs working it out, so what? It'll be worth it. You just need to go for it.

I am curious CTD, can you identify what you like about him ? Are you referring to his working style or appearance or both? Or you just generally like everything about him? I know it sounds like a weird question, but hey I'm a bit weird ;) .

Not unless that is a different dog you are running in the clip, b/c the dog I see is not slow.

WOW! I loved this! You should be so proud of everything you have achieved with her. She looks super keen & is really moving in those agility runs (and GREAT tables too ) I know nothing about obed, but I know she looks really happy so that must be a good thing. Well done, it is a lovely tribute.

I have to share this funny thing from yesterday, since it is foundation related. I was showing Border14 & OH how I teach a rear & front cross. First Trim & I demonstrated a rear cross just on the ground, on a verbal & then purely on body language. All was good. then...I tried to show the same thing with a front cross. LOL, problem was that my verbal command for a rear cross is "cross", so as I was trying to demonstrate a front cross...everytime I said the word "cross" as part of "front cross"...she did a rear . She is such a funny girl, she did it not once, not twice but many times, LOL. I am still laughing about it remembering it now. I am sure I have confused the hell out of B14 & OH . Honestly I felt like we should have been one of those old fashioned acts at a circus, with me dressed as a clown. Moral of the story...is not to change words...it is to appreciate your beautiful dogs & maintain the ability to laugh above all else.

I'm pretty sure she is coming to Australia this year, should be awesome!

And a couple of little Shine, who is just starting out: I am very pleased with her, she is a thinker & not quite as fast as Trim and a lot more aware of me as a presence in there.

Here are a couple of very short ones my daughter took today of Trim & I:

Sounds like a great video, there's some really good skills there. I am assuming there is step by step on each Game.

It's a great clip, she's very talented. She obviously hasn't asked for permission to use the photos though...I took at least 2 of them & know about 5 of the dogs.

CONGRATULATIONS :D to you & Leo! That is great news, Well Done

Sounds good, especially the going around the pole bit, whatever works is good. Yes please to video! We'd love to see it.

You don't allow him access to them, until you have gotten some help & he is reliable. Do you have a fenced area that he can't get out of? Any walks where he will have access to them will need to be on a lead or a long line. I grew up on a cattle farm, cows are not predictable animals, even if they appear gentle. It is much easier to prevent this behaviour than to cure it once it has started. Both my girls will walk happily off lead in a paddock with cows, they have never known any different & since they have never been given any other choice it does not occur to them to go near the cattle. It's important that you don't let the foster pups start, both for their sake & for the sake of their new owners.

Firstly, before you thinkabout training him, you need to stop him right now! One kick in the wrong place & he's dead instantly. The longer you let him do it, the more enjoyable he will find it. He will also think it's OK to chase other people's stock...and that usually ends in a bullet. Sorry if I sound harsh, but it's a cold hard finality if things go wrong.

COOL! I'm glad they both enjoyed it. Are you still coming on Sunday? If so, you can tell me all about it, I always have poles in the back of my car, so we could even do a bit while we're there... and... I think I will have to have a chat to your OH about your new dog He can't have all the fun!

I take it back, I just watched his other clips where he is running full courses with it at about 8 weeks. The guy is a dickhead. I feel sorry for that puppy ...and when you watch him run his other dog he is a crappy handler anyway. So much for me trying to think on the bright side .

Maybe it was an imprinting period? There was a lot of talk of this a few years ago, where people were teaching very young pups the basics of agility & then leaving them for 12 months. It was a fairly common thing, although I haven't heard anyone talk about it for a while...then again, maybe I'm just hoping for the best & thinking positive thoughts for this little pup, because it is definitely too young to start weaving regularly. It is possible to get a dog/pup weaving 12 poles to this level in a few days with 5-6 short sessions a day. Trim did her first full accurate set on day 3 at about this speed...although she was a lot older. There is a lot more to weaving than doing 12 poles: the entries, angles, lateral distance & speed can take a lot longer to get correct. I may video each of Shine's sessions when we start...it could be kind of fun & interesting to work out exactly how long it takes her to get to each stage.

That's great! Good on you for having a go! I agree with Sidoney, poles will be better than jackets as it will give him something to "see" & will be much easier for him as well as helping with wrapping uprights later. It's good that he got excited & good that he was watching you. The other thing I forgot to point out is that you can do different things in the exercise, you can have them run around the ouside in a big triangle or you can do a loop around each pole & go back the way you came. I do a bit of each with the girls in my clips. YOu will see that someth=imes they are on my left & then I turn & they are on my right. Once you have got him running well with you, the next one you will have to do is to teach a send around a single pole. This is a good one b/c he will also need to learn to go ahead without you as well as running alongside you. Both these skills will be very important later. Start by going with him & gradually back off once he understands what you want so that you can stand still & send him. Put your arm out to signal the pole & hold it there until he gets to it & then turn away from him. He will probably start off doing it slower than running with you, that's fine, but as he goes around the pole (ie once you are sure he is committed to going around) then you can run away a bit & reward & he will run with you & you will see that he will start to get faster. Then you can set up 2 poles & then 3, so you can stand in the middle & send. The final goal is to get the same speed out of your dog as when you run with them...afterall for them it is the same exercise. Hope this makes sense, I can do a clip of the second one if you need it. Vickie

Hi Em, I think it's fine so long as you don't overdo it. What Shine is doing in my clip at 9 months is pretty much the same as she does in her zoomies. I am not doing it often enough (LOL, only 3 times ever so far) or long enough (11 seconds each time) for it to become a forced exercise for her. Of course there is no harm in waiting, I only did it yesterday as an exercise that I could put up to demonstrate the point of getting focus in running without obstacles, it's certainly not something that we will be doing every day. I have done some running with her at the park where she follows my hand & then I turn in front of her or behind her, so it's just an extension of that. I will also do figure 8's around a jump with no bar on it, but haven't started it yet. If I am going to teach an "agility specific" behaviour or command that I will use, I want speed & motivation right from day one, so will not work on anything very seriously that her body is not ready for. I am also working on her "cross" (turn away from me) command...again, since it is a command I will use in agility, I want it fast & FUN, pretty much from the beginning...To her it's just a game, she has no idea yet that it will be a crucial tool in a couple of years time.

I like this one, I have done a similar exercise, where I turn 180 deg as soon as they pass me. I like it, it really teaches them to keep an eye on you. It is amazing how powerful actions can be with no voice commands.