Vickie

About 6 months ago, the motor driver? went in my camera, 5 weeks later I got it back, still under warranty & fixed. Now it looks like the shutter has worn out. Apparently this happens after about 100 000 shots . The guy I bought the camera off said that surely I hadn't taken that many photos. Yep, I reckon I have. . So now it'll have to go away again for about 10 days, not under warranty, and cost about $300. I'm already having withdrawals at the thought of 10 whole days without it.

At this point I'm not really sure it matters. It is impossible for anyone here on DOL to tell you what to do as no-one has seen his behaviour or your capabilities/relationship with him. All anyone here can do is recommend trainers for you, as they have. The next decision has to be yours. As someone said, by constantly changing tactics you could be doing more harm than good. I would be wary of any trainer advising you (and whatever competancy you may or may not have) to use children before they have seen his behaviour. My experience with my own FA dog, was that we had to work through many things which improved his trust in me to deal with his issues with children. But my dog is different to yours & the advice I was given worked for me, I didn't muck around and followed it exactly. I say, if you have any doubts about a trainer, keep looking, regardless of what you have spent so far.

I don't worry too much about it and my toys are certainly shared amongst the dogs. I use a variety of toys for my guys, it doesn't seem to matter a whole heap to them what it is. A lead or a towel is/would be just as exciting as a $30 toy. Whatever works really and whatever I happen to have/take with me. Shine's favourite toy right now is my son's talking Bob the Builder. She claimed it & he was generous enough to say she can have it. She also likes his fluffy ;) QUACKING duck puppet. :rolleyes: She likes things that talk .

Hi Prism, she's very cute! Are you planning on doing any activities with her? Herding, agility, Flyball? You will find redirecting her energy will help. Mine can be toy/ball obsessed but they have learnt with me that it's pretty much on my terms. I just put any object away if I don't want to play & they get the message pretty quick. I also try make sure that there are no toys/balls around (hard when you live with a 3YO human). They still manage to suck at least half my visitors in though .

C&Z, at the end of the day there are no guarantees, especially when there is a genetic component involved (I think I read somewhere of another reactive behaviour he has?). If you find a great behavioural trainer, if you interpret their advice correctly and if you do exactly what they say, you may find his issues easier to manage. But it's a big call to ever really be able to make his fear totally disappear. I live with a dog who is fearful of children. I am extremely vigilant with my own children & other children when he is around. I manage the situations & feel like I have enough knowledge & experience to do so. I know his fear will never completely go away, but I have taught him to trust me to look after him & if he feels uncomfortable he will generally come & sit beside me. It has been a work in progress for many years, IF there is a quick fix, I haven't found it. My goal has always been for him to co-exist with children & we have achieved this. But I never encourage him to be happy or choose to engage with children, it is enough for me that he is not reactive toward them. Even so, I still often put him in a safe (for him as well as the kids) area if I feel he is at all stressed.

Please don't do that, it can only end in disaster & is incredibly unfair to the dog, especially if you don't really know what you're doing.

I guess we are talking about different things. To me, my dog needs to turn away from me (ie change leading legs) every time I execute a rear cross...and I would say that SG's dogs do the same. Her dogs know before they take off that they are turning away from the direction they are travelling as do mine. I tend to use my shoulders more than my arms in a rear & tend to set the line before the jump, but the only difference is an extra step before the jump rather than an extra one after. I don't do rears on landing sides either as a rule, but will occasionally do one for a very awkward contact entry to straighten them up a bit first.

I don't think anyone has mentioned schnauzers? We have LOTS of awesome mini schnauzers competing in agility in NSW right now. Here are some pics I have taklen over the last couple of weeks: Personally if I were to get a smaller dog I would have to go for a Papillon. I know so many that live in homes with BC's & they just seem so well matched in terms of temperament & drives. My daughter wants a sheltie, but I too am concerned about some of the temperaments I see. I would say at least 50% of the ones I know & see are nervous & those odds are too great for me.

Aren't they referring to the opposite arm by "motherflicker"? I would think that dogs are constantly reacting to lots of ever so slight movements, intentional or not & yes it is the cause of many of courses, but I think it happens in many situations for many reasons.

Yep, I use the word "cross". It means turn away from me. I teach it to puppies on the flat starting with a lured spin from my side & then progress it to obstacles as & when they become old/mature enough. I use the same command for both sides, it always means I am about to rear cross/change sides on my dog. It is always given prior to the obstacle so that my dog has an opportunity to change her leading leg before taking off. I have always envied people who are good enough to use "left" & "right" on the fly...my brain just won't work well enough for that.

Not me, I LOVE competing. I love spending the day with like minded people & seeing the results of various training techniques. I love being a normal person & not a "Mum". I love celebrating & commiserating with my friends. I love being able to measure where I am at in terms of training by how I am meeting the challenges. I love discovering a new challenge that I haven't yet addressed in training. I love the extra adrenalin that both my dog & I get from a competition I love succeeding & coming home with a card or a ribbon to say that I have met the standard set in my sport. but mostly I love that my dog loves to be there. I like to set myself a specific goal every time I go into the ring, it might just be a little thing that I need to work on, but if it all turns to hell (as it sometimes does), I can be happy that I have achieved something. I also suggest to people that they come & watch some trials & basically say to them that they need to realise that there is NOTHING they will do in the ring that we haven't seen before. Trialling IS Training & it's best to treat most competitions as a training exercise. If you set achievable goals to work towards there needn't be any pressure. What kind of pressure are you feeling? Worry about others watching? Self imposed standards?

I think that is inevitable, it happens every day in many, many threads. The idea of raising this was for discussion. Seems like opinions are divided. That's part of a discussion. I read things that I cringe at all the time b/c they may/will be misinterpreted. I trust that people will come along & provide a balanced view, just as you have done in this thread. I would also hate people to think that you need to study for a year & read 10 books (I'm exaggerating) to teach an effective recall, but that is the impression that some people could get reading various threads. That's not going to help the average pet owner, they will either a. not do it or b. do it & not understand it. Neither of which will help the dog as it runs on to a busy road. ETA: could you maybe start a new post for major edits. It's hard to respond to something that keeps changing.

You know the reason I started this thread was that I think sometimes people make things too hard. While all this knowledge is accurate in a scientific sense is not always used correctly by the average person who will not fully understand it or observe correctly. I can think of a few people who study & teach complex theory whose dogs are generally no better behaved than mine & in some cases worse. For simple & reliable behaviours & for the average dog owner, I wonder if too much theory is a good thing, because it can cause us to over think & consequently overreact. Isn't it possible that consistency with no extremes of positive or negative can be effective as a training method? I have to keep asking myself...are we, as average dog owners, better or worse for all this theory? We want to believe we are better but sometimes I wonder. It'd be interesting to go to a sheep trial & ask some of them how they train a recall. My bet is that there will be some extremes at either end, but most of them will have a very simple method with uses neither extreme positive or negatives. And they will be able to tell you in a sentence or 2. How often do you see a sheepdog that won't come when it's called? I don't see many. I understand that there is value in theory & in science & fully understand how someone who makes a living out of theory will undoubtedly have many issues with what I am saying. It's fine, I still reward my dogs a lot, I try not to be too aversive but mostly I strive for consistency.

Thanks Tony, you said very succinctly in 4 lines what I was trying to say (badly) in about 200 lines My point was that I feel these "associations" can be more dependable simply b/c they are not over complicated & therefore have less possibility of being corrupted by the "average" trainer.

You know her better than anyone. What do you think? Also, is it really possible to sort out a tangle of possibly ambiguous cues/motivations/reinforcers? And is it worthwhile? I think the latter, & yes I think it's worthwhile, that's why I started the thread . What I am trying to investigate is actually the lack of "tangle of possibly ambiguous cues" etc. The basic, don't make a big deal either way with lots of consistent repetition. There is no fading of anything which I think can sometimes make a behaviour less dependable. The reason this has interested me is because her responses are so ingrained that I see no deterioration of them when taking them out & about. I'm not sure that going into the crate is a self rewarding thing...in fact sometiomes it's the opposite, quite often it is so I can train another dog...nothing rewarding about that. When I ask Trim to go into her crate in this situation, she does it, but I can also see her thought process & a split second hesitation. Shine just goes matter of factly, no questions. Anyway I'm not trying to negate proven theories, 95% of my training will still be based on reward, but it's something that has been going around in my head for a few years & so far I'm happy with my experiments.

You're all on the right page :D . I know I explained it badly . I guess I am really talking consistency when I say habit. Sometimes I think the problem with theoretical models of learning is that they are based on a consistent approach. Hard as we try, most of us are not consistent. So while the theories of course work perfectly, often we do not, despite our best efforts. Sidoney I think your rephrasing says it nicely. And yes there are very subtle rewards & punishment I guess to both the examples I gave. The crate one was an interesting one. I simply placed her (picked her up & put her) in there every day with a single word. Every morning at 9 I put her in the crate before I take the kids to school. I was surprised to see her waiting at the crate one morning at 9, so I opened the door & in she went . She had learned my habit every morning (maybe triggered by keys?) & knew what came next. From then on, if she wasn't waiting I just opened the door & said the word. So now you have me wondering...was she there waiting for me to hear "good girl"? or to avoid being picked? or simply because it is what we did every day? I guess you could assume that she sees me picking her up as a negative? (unless you have seen her laying spreadeagled in my lap :D ) As far as positives, I've never really said "Good girl" in a motivating tone for her going in the crate, b/c I am about to leave her, so it has been very matter of fact, but I agree pack drive could come in here. She has on occasion been fed while in the crate but not for going in. I don't think I've used any aversives with the crate, because I can't remember her ever questioning/challenging me to go in. In answer to your question Sidoney, if she did challenge this, I would take her collar, walk her forward a couple of paces & repeat the command as she went in. She also slept in the crate at night as a small pup & did the normal amount of puppy winging initially. In general terms I would say neither positives or negatives have been a strong influence in this process. In any case. I guess there are a number of ways to train a dog to go into a crate. To me this way just seemed so easy, not very time consuming & has met with no resistance.

The recall thread got me thinking about something. I am a little hesistant to post because I think this idea/method could be misused or I could be misinterpreted...but... Are there things/commands you teach your dog effectively without external rewards or punishment? What & why? Are there certain dogs you would/would not do this with? There are so many things we teach our dogs without even realising or trying to, simply b/c dogs are creatures of habit. Often we suddenly notice one day that when X happens our dogs do Y. Often these behaviours are more dependable than the ones we set out to teach. As an example, the way I taught Shine to go to her crate was simply to say a word & pop her in her crate, right from day one. In a very short time, she learnt the word & volunteered to go in. I've never really rewarded her for it, nor have I punished her for not doing it, it has always been very matter of fact & I generally say good girl as she goes in. It's not something I want done in any specific manner, just so long as she does it. I've used a similar method for her recall, I'm sure I gave her treats as a tiny puppy, but not for very long. The day she tested me to find out if she really needed to do it or not, she found out that she did. I've never been harsh with her & if she has tested me I have just helped her make the right decision for a couple of seconds before allowing her to continue on her own. In all honesty I think recall is too important for it to become optional. I think sometimes by varying reinforcment rates & values, the average trainer can make behaviours less solid than if they are just an everyday thing that we make a habit without ever giving them another choice. Does this make sense? What do you think? Please don't think that I don't reward dogs because I use rewards all the time & think it is one of the most important things we can do in training, I am just curious as to other people's thoughts.

I'm not 100% but I have a feeling that a beagle would be too big for earthdog. I thought the tunnels were more like terrier size. Canine Fun Sports teach agility lessons at Castlereagh. If you can keep their noses up, they can be great agility dogs, we have a few where I train. Also tracking? not sure who to contact but I know lots of people who do it in Sydney & am pretty sure some of their training is around Penrith area.

The judge of our Open Jumping course yesterday made the following comment (I'm paraphrasing): It was extremely disappointing to watch handler after handler scream at their dogs through the distance portion. How about some of you try handling it next time & giving a "jump" cue, rather than repeated screaming "Out". He even suggested than some of the screaming was deserving of penalties.

BTW, if that rule was enforced in NSW, we would have a HEAP of DQ's. Trim finishes her run, tears around like a maniac looking for where the ring steward has put her lead & brings it to me to tug. Sometimes I am still in the ring, sometimes not. Often there is only a metre between the last obstacle & the ring rope...doesn't give you much room :D

Our brag is that Trim & I got her Excellent Agility title yesterday with a first place :D . She got her Novice title in our first ever weekend of trialling, so it feels like it has taken FOREVER to get through Excellent, with so many very nice 1 fault runs. Now we will get an extra 2 runs next weeknd to prove it wasn't a fluke

Well done to you & Abbie!!! :D The Q's & ribbons are nice but the knowledge that you met all the challenges & ran well as a team is the biggest reward there is in agility. Sounds like she is going great.

Where are you located chloebear? We may be able to suggest some trainers/clubs. We have a number of very successful rescues in Sydney who started out very timid & who have really blossomed by starting agility. It can be an enormous confidence booster. Good on you for deciding to try her. Keep us updated

Basically it all depends on the available light. The way it works is the higher the shutter speed the more the action will be frozen. Problem with this is that on a cloudy day where there is not much light...a high shutter speed with produce very dark photos as the aperture will not be open long enough to let enough light in. A low shutter speed will generally result in blurry photos as it will not freeze movement. Are you able to use manual settings? Increasing the ISO if you can will help, but it will add noise to your photos. If I am trying to take action shots, I don't even bother unless I can get a shutter speed of at least 800. Hope this helps...maybe if you could tell us about the options on your camera we could be more help.

So long as you don't consider it personal, it's cool with me too. I have plenty of friends who do things I don't believe are right with regard to breeding. And why do they care anyway? I am a nobody who doesn't even breed & who has found a philsophy I truly believe in. I don't think believing this is doing anyone any harm & every now & then it makes my day to convert someone...just as someone converted me.