Vickie

I don't think anything beats regular checking. I use Frontline on mine but it's no guarantee. We have only had one issue (but have found lots of ticks on them over the years). I was going to an extremely bad tick area a few years ago. I frontlined as usual & also purchased a tick collar & put it on the day we left home. By the time we had driven 7 hours, Zeus was suffering symptoms, panting, coughing, loss of voice, paralysis of back legs. When I took him to the vet we couldn't find a tick. The vet was unsure if what we were seeing was a tick which had since dropped off or a reaction to the preventic collar, since he said it can produce a similar set of reactions. We never found a tick & he was unwilling to give medication in case it was a reaction to the collar. Zeus was fine in a week, but I had to rest him for 6 weeks to recover. So my suggestion is if you are going to try something new to do it before you get to the tick area to make sure there will be no reaction & any symptoms shown would in fact be tick related.

Great advice everyone . This is a very informative thread. Further to what kja said about reading your manual, I'd like to add that reading it multiple times as your skills develop is a great idea too. I remember looking at my manual blankly when I first got my camera. None of it seemed to make any sense. Then, as I started to understand concepts, suddenly a chapter of gibberish would make sense...and then the another chapter etc. I still read it once a month & each time learn something new. LOL, I got a speedlight recently. Now that manual makes no sense Hopefully one day it will.

Oooh! What are you getting? How exciting! I'm still looking for that book too T(ad)pole . I have bought a few books but find most of the focus is on processing & editing rather than actually taking the pics. I'm finding I am learning best through trial & error. I started on full auto settings & am gradually investigating various settings & techniques. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. A photography forum such as Flickr is another great place for learning. Lots of people are willing to critique & give advise on composition etc. and it's a heap of fun too since it gives you ideas on things to try. LOL, prepare to be addicted! I can't wait to see the gorgeous shots you will get of my favourite DOL BC

Kowai, as other have said NADAC offers veterans with lower heights. Bear in mind the impact on his body will depend on other things as well as jump heights. eg The difficulty or flow of the course, his speed & enthusiasm, your ability to give him advanced warnings of turns etc. I retired my older dogs from agility because I was concerned about injury. The problem with them was that although their bodies were slowing down, their minds were not, so there was no real option to take it easy to protect their bodies. I also didn't have the precue commands on them that I have since adopted with my girls so they were no nearly so graceful around the course.

I've never really thought much about this before & have never consciously trained anything but I do have basic expectations. If I am walking somewhere with my dogs with or without leads & I am walking with purpose, I expect them to be with me, so they tend not to be marking. If I am gasbagging & they are offlead (a common occurence ) or ambling along, then I don't really care, since my only expectation of them is that they are generally aware of where I am. All 4 of mine will mark, usually over the top of each other & I could care less. If any of them did this while I was training, it would bother me. I don't think I would correct it, but I would know there was a problem between me & my dog & I would attempt to rectify the problem rather than the marking. I sometimes see dogs on sheep, marking in the yard or paddock & also in agility on equipment. People correct them for it, but I think it's mostly ineffective & they should be looking as to the cause, which is often obvious to onlookers.

Don't let that stop you LL! C'mon out with it! I just had a look at last years thread. I didn't set any trialling goals...we had a great trialling year this year, so I don't think I will set any next year either (other than to actually attend more of them) & hope for the same. We had lots of training goals that we have met this year...and some that we haven't quite met yet. I also have a new set of things I want to achieve in training next year. My goal is to have as much fun with my dogs next year as I have had this year.

I think the hardest thing about starting out is wanting to do "it" right before you are exactly sure what "it" is for competition training. I am just starting training with my 4th competitive agility dog & still trying to improve each time. I am constantly revising & perfecting methods & still have a ways to go yet. My goals are high & rocking up to a club once a week, regardless of methods used there, is not really going to be enough to achieve the standard I am aiming for. For me in agility it is 50/50. Half is how I train my dogs & the other half is how good I am at handling them. What I always tell people to do is go watch as much training & competition as you can. Over time you will see a pattern emerging in dogs & handlers whose style you are attracted to. You will find the most successful competitors are the most consistent trainers. They have a method that works & a plan to make sure everything is on track. Agility people are very approachable (especially when you are admiring them as a team ). My advice is to spend time talking to these people, finding out where & how they train. The will have rules that they follow & established motivators & methods for communicating right & wrong to their dogs. I don't use food much, because my dogs are more motivated by toys & I find them easier to use in training. Saying that, I don't consider my training or anyone else I know in agility in NSW to do formal "training in drive" as it has been explained on this forum. If my next dog was more motivated by food, I would probably use it, but my aim would be to increase the value of toys in training. I don't think there is much room for any kind of punishment in agility. I would occasionally use a NRM, but only on certain dogs & only once I was confident I had taught a behaviour correctly. There are lots of non-confident & slow paced dogs running agility, many of them have been corrected verbally after inconsistent training or handling. Since the dogs get different responses for the same thing, they decide the best thing to do is to go carefully, just in case it is wrong. I don't think this is EVER fair to the dog, but very hard for Novice (and sometimes not so novice handlers) to avoid. LOL, not sure if I have really answered your question, but I hope this all helps. Vickie ETA: I know nothing about comp. obedience :rolleyes: obviously so my comments are purely agility based.

Well Done MrsDog . I love watching the delight on people's faces when they see the potential in their dog, especially the ones considered hard to manage. You may just have changed their life (sounds like you have certainly changed the dog's future) and that is a very rewarding thing to be able to do. Keep us updated!

The Australian Working Kelpie as it was... and as it still is now... not really, I took both pics at a yard trial yesterday. I really like this dog, I saw him when he first started on sheep a couple of years ago, so it was nice to see him yesterday trialling. He has a great attitude and showed all of the traits written about in the article.

I'm glad you all enjoyed it...here's another one that is also interesting: Heritability of Herding-related Traits I agree Tony. The thread about breeding for obed/agility got me thinking about this and although nobody agreed with me I was trying to point out that the traits req'd for these 2 things are not nearly as unique or identifiable as those req'd for herding for instance. I often hear people say they breed for performannce, temperament, coat, bone, ear set etc. and "working ability". It bothers me that they tend to talk of "working ability" as if it is just one whole thing that you can tick off. I think if you were really breeding for "working ability", you would first need to be aware of the different components & then be analysing & testing each aspect, since there are many.

I was just looking for an article that I bookmarked ages ago & found this one on the way. I thought it was very interesting & written in a manner that was easy to understand so wanted to share it. http://sheepjournal.une.edu.au/cgi/viewcon...xt=sheepjournal

Never mind

Good post PF. But to provide a balanced view on your statement above...it can also be this selective breeding that is responsible for them losing breed traits. I agree with everyone that breeding good to good (in anything) should increase your chances of good, but I still have to question whether breeding for Obed/Agility can be reasonably compared to breeding for work. I might be a little defensive about this one. I have what I think is an above average agility dog (and another one well on the way to looking above average ( both hampered by an average handler)), who come from a large family of above average agility dogs...but...contrary to some people's assumptions, they weren't bred for agility. So while they have a breeder who is extremely talented in breeding dogs who are great at agility, the traits that were selected for breeding were not actually agility traits and yet the dogs being produced are consistently above average.

I guess that's my point, I'm not sure we can clearly define what traits make an agility dog good (I'm sorry, I know very little about obedience) so if we can't define them, how can we reproduce them? I suppose I am really talking here about outstanding, not just good, since the question revolved around improvement in breeding. There are lots of good agility dogs, producing good agility dogs, but if you wanted to select for perfection what would you choose? Even if we had the knowledge to combine the right genes without collecting those we don't want, which we don't, which genes would you select? For instance, let's say I had 2 great agility dogs, both are fast & athletic & learn quickly. Dog 1 is naturally efficent & very biddable Dog 2 is naturally wider & drives harder but still biddable Offspring? 1 efficent & biddable 2 efficent & biddable but doesn't drive hard 2 biddable & biddable - too soft 3 Wide & hard 4 Wide & recessive stubborn And what if we decided not to breed for wide in agility since it's not desirable but wide was often linked to driving hard? What if we decided biddable was the most important thing & started doubling up on it everywhere only to discover that too much of it is not good at all? I'm not keen on breeding solely for Obedience or Agility. I think there is too much potential for a breeds (especially popular sports breeds) identity & abilities to be lost in the process.

I think it's too broad a question to answer without going into a heap of detail & variables. In general terms, you would hope that breeding 2 dogs that are talented & successful should produce the same, it should give you consistent but I don't think we know enough about genes/traits to say it will give better. I think performance traits are much harder to select for than say conformation or working traits. We know there are lots of good agility & obed dogs around but what are the specific traits that make them good? And what may be desireable for one handler may be a disaster for another. I read a discussion ages ago about people breeding agility BC's in the US. Lots of people were breeding 2 successful agility dogs (and still are with varying levels of success) but many have gone back to breeding straight working lines because the selection of one thing is often at the expense of another. Since they didn't/don't know exactly which traits to select for, it really makes more sense to go with what they know already works. I also agree with FHR, there are plenty of titled dogs around who are not exactly what you would call breeding material...I have 2 of them here. And there are also a heap of untitled or minimally titled dogs that could be spectacular in the right hands. Not sure if this makes sense, it's late.

ShellyBeggs, the best advice I can give is the name of a good trainer in your area with an established program. Where are you located? The answers to your questions depend on your aspirations. While safety should always be number 1 priority in agility, from your descriptions so far, everything you are struggling with really needs to be done correctly in the beginning if you are thinking you would ever like to compete. There is also a few basic things you should achieve before you do too much obstacle training.

I'll take the trailer! It looks like the equip is demo stuff, more like military style equip rather than competition equip. Not saying it wouldn't be useful but it would need some modification. eg I suspect the jumps would be fixed & not at training/competition heights, AFrame looks a lot steeper than regulation & has slats. It's hard to tell from the pics. LOL, maybe we should all send them an email individually: "Can you please notify me if this does not sell & you are willing to bring the price down a little or willing to sell individual pieces"

Hi Tony, sounds like she's a star! As far as the weaving goes, if she is accurate at home, but misses them at training, I would say it is the extra adrenalin she & you get in a competition like atmosphere. The first thing I would do is rather than trying to slow her down at training...try upping the anti at home. Are you training on the same number of poles? Do you do a jump or any other equip before & after the poles at home? Can you practice running with her at speed into the poles at home? Will she weave while you have her favourite toy or ball in your hand? Will she weave if you throw it while she's in the poles? She may be seeing it as a different exercise & realistically for most people who train at home as well as training, weaving is different as we tend to train it at home as a separate exercise. While going through all the proofing above it may also hep to set her up for success by offsetting the poles slightly. Hope this helps & makes sense Vickie

What beautiful shots Rainey! I have been trying to get a 50mm on Ebay for a while, but they always go over my price range. After seeing these I'm going back to look. The lowest F-Stop I can get on either of my lenses is 4.5.

Actually I'm not sure I agree with the above. Personally I would be going way out of my way to do as much herding with her as I could. From what I have read before about her, it is what she lives for, as it is with most sheepdogs. I would never want my dogs to see me as "higher value" than working sheep, sure they need to do what I ask, but they live to work and that is as it should be. I would be using herding to let her know that you provide access to what matters most in the world. JMO, I may have it all wrong (again, LOL).

Hi Perry's Mum, Reading the above it now doesn't sound like anything major has happened but more a general progression of what she was already doing because of her past. I'm sorry I misunderstood your original post.

Thanks Ruth. Only someone as similarly addicted would offer . The good news is I used it heaps on Saturday, with a few issues but not too bad. And then I used it all day yesterday & NOT ONE SINGLE PROBLEM! How weird is that? Not that I am complaining. I did the mirror lock thingy...I wonder if that helped?

It sounds to me like something has happened as well. I would sit down & write a list of how many things have changed & whether these things were overnight or gradual & what time frame. Then work out whether they are location specific or you specific. eg, she won't take treats from your hand. Is this only in your house?kitchen?backyard? local park? will she take them from a friends hand? will she take them if you turn away not facing her & deliver them from your hand behind your back? Since the food from the hand would be the most worrying bit for me, I would probably work on that first. It sunds to me like something has happened that you are unaware of. Does she sleep with you? For some dogs it could be something as simple as you rolling over at night & flinging your arm on her in your sleep...or an incident where you accidently trod on her & forgot about it. Are you noticing any reaction to your hand? foot? facing her? bending over her? I'm sure once you identify what makes her comfortable & what doesn't, you can work on getting her back to normal. Good Luck, what a worry for you.

As far as I know there are only 2 places in Sydney that do herding training. Richmond showground (Saturday mornings) and Erskine Park (most Saturdays & Sundays).

Thank you so much for understanding! I haven't taken it in yet, will wait till after the weekend. It is still taking half the shots fine & the other half fail with a black section on the shot. So I guess I'll play & hope to get a few more shots if it ever stops raining. Bbucket, I just had a look at your Flickr. WOW! you have so many awesome shots. Your dogs are gorgeous. Tobi reminds me a lot of my Trim in her expressions. You have a great talent for capturing personality & composing shots. Frieda, last time my camera went in, I took my husbands little Pentax. It has lots of limitations, but I managed to get a few decent shots from it & at least it fed my obsession :rolleyes: . Sezy, thank you, that is very nice of you to say. Re the camera lend...don't tempt me I have pretty much decided that I'm going to use the 10 days to sort out the 36 000 images I have on my computer. I have so many that I have never really looked at or loaded. And I am sure I can delete at least half of them.