Vickie

Really? Is that how you felt as someone who didn't attend? Maybe I need to take my blinkers off Have attendees of Ronda's seminars over the last 2 years interfered with/commented on your handling decisions? I have certainly never heard her rubbish another handler's system.

I don't do or understand the GD system, but can certainly identify with the brainwashing comment. We were discussing it recently on DST. Right now there is a band of devotees in NSW who do seem brainwashed to me after attending the recent GD seminar. I don't have a problem with people discussing systems as they walk the course or analysing other's runs, but there are a few who seem to be going out of their way to tell anyone who is not using GD that they are wrong & inconsistent. Not only is it rude & disruptive, but they are yet to prove via results that their system is more successful. I don't have a problem with the GD system, I don't understand it, but it is obviously successful if executed correctly. I was told that at the NSW seminar he showed videos of other handling systems & pointed out why they were inconsistent. If you look worldwide, there are many different, successful systems but I don't see those using the GD system dominating the winning either here or elsewhere. The brainwashed here would have you think otherwise...and they saw video to prove it . off my soapbox now, I just thought I would try to explain some of DeltaCharlie's comment as it seems to be a common feeling here in NSW atm.

I've already replied on DST...but :D CONGRATULATIONS!!! All your hard work is paying off Here's to the first of many clears for you guys!

Maybe it is as simple as the dog thinking "there's no rush, it's not going anywhere fast"?

True, and I think in many cases this is exactly what is probably happening...but it does not explain the difference between a straight out stationary release to a toy vs the running release with no equipment in sight.

no I am not saying that b/c it is theoretical. It is a question asked about a behaviour I commonly see, so while I can answer the above for my own dog/s, I cannot for other dogs.. Maybe all of the above it true, depending on the dog. I would say that it seems to be more likely when the dog perceives the object as a reward. An unknown object doesn't really seem to come into play for most of the dogs I see doing this.

I wonder if it is about natural prey behaviour? when you think about it, if a prey driven dog is chasing a moving item, they are moving flat out to get it. If they approach a stationary item, they tend to creep & crouch. They may be thinking that an item delivered from your hand is a moving item? If you throw a ball for a ball motivated dog, they tend to go after it faster than if you release them to fetch one on the ground. For my dogs, their whole posture is different.

I think many people would include it as necessary to their proofing schedule. As Ness said, it adds distraction...but the question is how & why. What is going on in their heads and how do you overcome it?

It is a theoretical question, but it is a good point. I am sure that some things you could do to prevent self reward could cause hesitation, although you would assume that they are not given the opportunity to test this until the behaviour is very solid.

nope...and the reward is not necessarily food either. It is an interesting experiment. You could test it with almost anything that a dog already knows. ie if your dogs knows how to run to a mat & drop, ask for that with a bowl of food/or a toy sitting next to the mat and see if the behavior is any different.

I was discussing this with someone recently. I'm after informed responses based on theory rather than guesses. Here is the situation, dog has been taught to run fast to a particular position and hold that position till released verbally. If no reward is visible, dog drives into position. If the reward comes from the hand, dog drives into position. If the reward is already on the ground in front of the position, dog is hesitant to get into the position. Anyone got any theories as to why? Anyone got any theories as to how to overcome it?

Awwww, how cute was that pup! My daughter is always asking me if she can take one of my dogs on that show

I was watching a clip this morning & it reminded me of some others I had bookmarked. A collection of clips, First exposure to stock Watching these pups just blows me away, each & every time I see it happen. I have seen this with both my girls, no training, just pure & utter instinct. I know that first exposure is not everything & there have been some very talented dogs come out of ordinary beginnings, but when it starts like this it has to be a good sign. Lots of dogs have an instinct to chase, but these dogs are clearly showing complex working traits. Amazing!

did you have to pay for the ECG?

3 of my 4 dogs have slow heart rates. I am not sure what their actual rate is, but my vets alway comments that they are slow. It is generally a positive comment & they often use the words "nice & fit" in association with it. We have only had one complication/issue with a slow heart rate & it was anaesthetic related. The next time a different anaesthetic was used & he was fine. I just googled heart rates. Most sites seem to say that 70-100 is normal, some say 60-100.

This is from Dogs NSW Board of Directors The following recommendation was approved by the Board at their meeting 11 February 2009: THAT the Board of Directors approves that an Agility Trial is to be held on Sunday 22 February 2009 to raise funds for the Dogs Victoria Bushfire Appeal. All associated Dogs NSW fees and charges are waived and that they be granted dispensation from the relevant Dogs NSW Regulations. THAT the total amount raise be deposited into the Dogs Victoria Bushfire Appeal Fund by Dogs NSW with the acknowledgment - Dogs NSW Agility Competitors. Regards Christine Davis Dogs NSW - CEO Thank you to the Dogs NSW Board of Directors Agility Brushfire Fundraiser Trial Dogs NSW The Bill Spilstead Complex For Canine Affairs German Shepherd Oval Luddenham Rd, Erskine Park Classes to be Judge JD JDX JDM in separate heights and JDO class Judges Keith Edwards JD JDX JDM 200 300 400's Eddy Szmelter JD JDX JDM 500 and 600's Ashley Roach JDO Judging from 4pm Check in from 2pm Catalogue will be produced on day Running order Ring 1 JD JDX JDM Ring 2 JDO PRIZES Dorian Smith has donated 1st place prizes all classes and 2nd 3rd for JDO Qualification cards URGENT - URGENT Entries to be sent to TRIAL SECRETARY PO Box 8102 Werrington County, NSW 2747 PLEASE TRY TO MAIL YOUR ENTRY IT WILL MAKE THINGS A LOT EASIER If you email your name and dogs name and classes you wish to enter you MUST then bring entry form filled in and signed on Sunday WITH MONEY Entries will be accepted up till 1 hour before the start of the trial Cost of entry $5.00 Remittance in favour DOG NSW AGILITY COMMITTEE Come along and help your fellow Australians

I think most of it is human nature, not specific to Australia. There will always be people who don't care, just as there will be those who overreact... to anything. Hopefully most of us are somewhere in the middle, but it tends to be the extremists that you hear from most. Here is my version of risk analysis How likely does history say the risk is? How likely do the experts say the future risk is? If the event happens, what is the worst case scenario? Using the first 2 questions, how likely is it that the worst case scenario will happen? Can I cope with the worst case scenario if the event happens? Can I cope with the best case scenario if the event happens? Can the risk of the event be minimised? How much effort is it to minimise the risk? and the big one...is the event more likely to impact me more than others because of certain variables. If I were to apply the above to the tire incident: History says it happens, the experts say it will continue to happen, worst case scenario is death of a dog, this is possible but rare, I cannot cope with the worst cast, I cope with the best case scenario regularly, the tire can be changed, I believe with some but not unmanageable effort. I feel my dogs are more at risk of serious injury than others b/c of the comparative speeds they are travelling at.

I like that one too Luke! The annoying thing is that I don't have an aggressive dog. I have a dog that prefers other dogs do not charge up to her when she is trying to concentrate & follow my instructions. Why should the onus be on me? Surely it is beneficial to no-one to have a dog approach while you are in the middle of a training exercise? It would help if this was addressed more at a club level.

Can you make me one too Luke I would like it to say this: "Stay away from my dog when we're training...or I'll bite you myself!" and another one "Yes, I'm sure your dog is lovely & sometime when I'm not training mine, I'd love to have it jump all over me"

I agree, it looks a bit dangerous & certainly carries potential for injury. I think we could also say the same for many other pieces of equipment & we should all make an effort to point out anything we see that could be improved. Sometimes I see pegs sticking up on tunnels & weaves, pins that join DW & AF's sticking up. I always point them out & they are always fixed. I have seen a seesaw plank totally come off while a dog was negotiating it. I was very upset to see that same seesaw back in competition the following week. I think it's gone now. I guess the difference for me between these dangers & the tyre is that I believe the tyre has more potential to break bones, paralyse & even kill dogs. There was a dog who broke it's neck in the US years ago on a tyre. It's legs got caught underneath & it landed on it's neck, breaking it instantly.

The tyre was never officially banned. The circular was a suggestion. Apparently NSW never received anything official about the tyre and I have not run a course since the Nationals that did not include the tyre.

You know I don't do obed. but I do do focus & motivation ... Here is a left field suggestion. Is there any way you can convince Ben to do something with him one afternoon so that you can watch & analyse what happens? You often say that he is very attached to Ben. I just wonder what would happen if Ben tried to work him. It may just indicate or rule out that the issues are having are between you & Diesel rather than just about Diesel.

As Laffi said, I would not use a command. In fact I pretty much never use a command until a behaviour is taught. At this point a command will mean nothing as there is no reliable behaviour to pair it to. Some dogs will offer movement on thir own, some won't. If no movement is being offered, you may need to lure a little bit. I find some dogs are uncomfortable in this position & exercise. There are other ways (that I prefer) to teach rear end awareness as well. Teach him to walk backwards on command. For some dogs this is as simple as having them stand in front of you & walking towards them. Some will naturally step back. Others will naturally sit...or let you run into them. Again, luring can be useful. Some people prefer to create a barrier of use a hallway so the dog has no option but to move back. Another one I like for agility that we did at Ronda Carter's seminar last year is to have a VERY low jump & ask your dog to step over it. Dogs with little or no back end awareness will often hit or touch it with their back legs. Each attempt where they do not touch it is rewarded, each where they do touch it is ignored. The dogs pick up very quickly that you don't want them to touch it & are therefore more careful with their back feet. Another is to teach them to a touch a target with a back foot, this is generally fairly easy if they are clicker savvy.

well you can hardly blame him for that . He has good taste your Snoopy

me too