Vickie

He looks good, although still a little hesitant. I'd like to see what he does without you in the picture as he seems quite tuned in to your movement...especially the releases, both from the start & from the contact. I would be putting your arms away, it is just an extra cue that you will need to fade. can you video him again & send him as well as call him. I think he will look quite different in each of those scenarios. Have you got a tunnel at your place? sending into a tunnel first can help you get ahead & allow him to perform independently.

from my front gate this morning. I couldn't find my remote shutter thingy & have no idea how to use the timer, but may try again tomorrow morning once I am more organised. The sky was actually a beautiful pink before the sun came up, but I wasted valuable time looking for my remote, so missed it.

Oh WOW, look at those cocker ears fly . I LOVE your agility shots Luke. Barkly looks like he's loving his agility .

A dog that is zoned into returning to you as quickly as possible is not as likely to be distracted by other things in the environment along the way by comparison to a dog who ambles or trots back. Apart from which, I'm impatient and when I call I want my dog with me asap That makes sense..especially the last bit

I'm sure I start with rewards, but I use a variety of things: I start by only using a recall word when they are coming, never when I want them to come until it is trained. I use older trained dogs to teach the puppy...when I whistle, I know my dogs will come running, puppy follows & learns whistle. I like my dogs to check in regularly when we are walking & encourage this from day one. Maybe the most important thing for me is to enforce every recall & only recall when I am in a position to enforce it. If the dog doesn't come, I go & get it, take it's collar & pull it gently in the direction I am walking. I immediately release & then verbally reward when they continue. They learn that when I call, they WILL come. I am not at all mean about it, but I don't want a recall to be a like a trick, I want compliance, not fun. I'm never going to have rewards on me everywhere I go, I'm just not organised enough. It is impossible to use food/toys rewards to get a dog to recall off stock when they start training. With Trim I recalled her & then sent her around the sheep again as a variable reward, it worked, but I won't do it again. With Shine I used a rope...when I called she came, if the rope wasn't on, I went & got her. She has never been given the opportunity to blow me off. She now has a fantastic recall off sheep, whereas Trim is compliant but sometimes she needs to get them where she needs them to be first.

Well it does look impressive in competition not in a sheep competition it wouldn't...

Just out of curiosity...why do you (or anyone else) want a recall at a dead run? no, I think it's right on topic & totally agree which is why my recall is not based purely on rewards. I will say though that there have been a couple of times where the panic in my voice has elicited a quicker response than normal but it's not a "trained emergency recall" I am having serious recall issue with one of my old boys at the moment...silly old bugger has gone almost deaf (literally). He still hears a whistle depending which way he is facing, but we are now having to go through a process of teaching hand signals.

so do you ever whistle for a recall anywhere else? around the house, at training, at a trial etc...and do you always have a similar value reward for each of those situations?

I don't use either method, but if you are using a reward based system, isn't it inevitable that the rewards & rates are varied at some point?

Corvus I have never considered your attitude to be snobby in the slightest. In fact if anything I would say it is the opposite. A while ago, I went through a process of writing a reply to threads & if it was in any way contraversial, I used to save it for a day & then reread before posting it. I found it helped to avoid people misunderstanding me as I quite often made it a little clearer after the second reading. Just a suggestion, but it may help.

Thanks Lia, I was so happy with Trim all weekend, she never put a foot wrong...I wish I could say the same for myself :D . Still she doesn't care, she has fun & I try to make sure she never knows when I make her do the wrong thing.

Well Done Lia :D , didn't see either of Kaos's runs unfortunately, but glad he stayed on course. That's great! Well Done to you too Holly . That's a decent haul of Q's. Overall we had a pretty good weekend...although there were highlights & lowlights :D . Highlights were Trim 2nd place Open Agility, 1st place Masters Gamblers, 1st place Masters Jumping Shine 3rd place Masters Jumping (the times were close...other than for a little collision where she tried to take me out, she would have beaten Trim, so I'm stoked about that), 2nd place Excellent pairs (although it was pretty ugly) AND a little session on sheep at the end where she really looked great & inspired me to start taking her back for training again. Chloe, my daughter ran Trim in Open Jumping. She was a little late on one call & got a refusal but otherwise it was a GREAT run :D ...and apparently according to EVERYONE who saw the run, she runs Trim better than I do :D . Our dog of the year runs were so, so close. Trim crept her startline on Saturday & went under the first bar...costing us a 1st or 2nd place: I was pretty pleased with Shine, just to make the final in her first year of trialling was great, but she had a pretty nice run in it too, only a second behind Trim. It was great to see Cordy again who took some very nice photos & meet PAX & her beautiful dogs . Caz...we didn't see you??? Chloe was very excited as she thought you might bring "her" Ziggy.

Wow...what a read, I just had to catch up on 3 pages. Here's the thing. A puppy growling & biting could mean a couple of different things & we can only ever guess which one by the posters description of the situation. It could mean they are normal puppy, mouthing & growling in protest, testing waters, a vocal dog, a fiesty dog etc. It could just go away with minimal effort & reward based training...or it could turn into something not so normal if you empower that puppy through inconsistent handling make it into a serious problem. or it could mean you have a serious problem on your hands right from the beginning. Some dogs are dominant right from the beginning & you HAVE to recognise the early signs & stay right on top of them all the way. I am willing to bet Eric is the former. Maybe we are all overreacting. Maybe he is a normal puppy but if I hear puppy & growl in the same sentence, I am always alerted...and if that growl is serious or escalates then I would be seriously concerned. You cannot blame people in this thread for worrying, you give very little description of how normal or how dominant he is. Even if you did give a full description, people will interpret it in different ways. Either way, the end result can be the same...a normal puppy from the start can be every bit as bad as the bad puppy in the end, depending on how they are treated. Either way, a "let's see what happens & I'll deal with it if it gets bad" attitude can be very dangerous.

http://www.finchester.org/dogs/dog_diary/l...9;s%20dogs.html "Geri Hernandez' incredible dog Focus died this morning here at Power Paws. He would have been a very young five years old in just a few days. It was a nice morning, Geri and a couple other friends were here to train, we walked the first course, Focus got warmed up, and Geri ran him through half the course. He did not take a cue to get into a tunnel, and while were laughing at the error, he just dropped to the ground and was gone. We did CPR all the way to the vet, but there was never a moment that he showed any life after that point."

no, the dog, Focus, was in California at a private training session on someone's property, nothing to do with Australia or the World Games. He was recently selected to be on the US World Team, he was not competing at the World Cup at the time.

How totally devastating to have a seemingly healthy dog in it's prime drop dead before your eyes for no apparent reason. The loss of any loved pet is tragic, but I can only imagine the time, love & teamwork that they shared to make the world team & now he is gone. He sounded like such a lovely dog. RIP Focus. Australia lost one of it's own agility superstars yesterday in WA after a very brave & gutsy battle with lymphoma. RIP Raven, you were quite a dog! Even when they live a full life, they are with us for such a short time. I'm off to hug my dogs.

yes it is great & there is nothing elitist about it. I love that it allows Novice & Excellent dogs the opportunity to run the heats & of course make the final. It also rewards the very consistent dogs who may not ever win a heat, but qualify in each one they enter.

not 100% sure yet Barb, but it seems very unlikely at this stage. Apart from the financial aspect, I don't see me finding a way to leave my 5yo here while we go & I am sure as hell not taking him . Chloe & I would love to drive across Aust. & take some photos along the way but I think it's really just a dream, I can't seem to find a way to make it happen. A shame b/c Trim is really running brilliantly right now & Shine is not too far behind her. It is just such a long wait till the next Nationals... same as above. I love Tassie, I have only been once, many years ago, but would love to go back with my camera.

Thanks Barb not really so amazing you are one of the most travelled agility people I know. I've only left NSW once for agility & am sure I have met you at least 4-5 times over the years.

Awww...you spoil all my fun. So why don't you want to utilise my expert sales pitch?????? :D Is there something you're not telling us? Will he be coming out here for training soon ?

There are 12 heats for each Agility & Jumping. The course is supposed to be Open level without the distance section. The winner of each heat gets 40 points, 2nd place 39 points & so on down to 1 point. It is possible to get points with a fault if there are less than 40 dogs who ran clear. To make it fair, since lots of people do not attend every heat, the top 6 scores for each dog are added up to form the final tally. The final is a one off run, but the real winners (the agility & jumping dog of the year) are the handlers & dogs who win the cumulative pointscore at the end of the year & they get to keep & have their name engraved on the big trophy for a year. Thanks , we'll do our best, but like I said, competition is pretty tough.

Sure, the final pointscore is on the NSW Agility website Agility: http://agilitynsw.com.au/doc/AgilityDogofY...9Pointscore.pdf Jumping: http://agilitynsw.com.au/doc/JumpingDogofY...9Pointscore.pdf

Since we moved, I go to Burns every week & haven't seen any diseased looking animals yet. I have seen a few that look underweight, but also see them feeding their stock. Burns also do wholesale, so there is every chance that pet meat purchased at other places comes from Burns anyway. I agree that the area you go in to pick up your meat is not exactly pleasant, but again, generally you would not get to see this if you are buying from a retailer. My dogs have never looked healthier since I started feeding from Burns, so no complaints from me.

If anyone has a free day & would like to come along & watch a trial, the Festival of Agility this weekend will be a great one to come to. The Agility Dog of the year & Jumping Dog of the year Finals will be held first thing each morning. After 12 heats of each agility & jumping throughout the year, the top 40 dogs in NSW (and ACT) will be running off in the final. It will be fierce competition. Lately the top placing 4-5 dogs generally run within a second of each other...nail biting stuff. All the games will also be run this weekend & they can be really fun to watch as well, especially pairs which can end up totally hilarious.

OK I'm going to try again... If I had a dog that talked back I would be re-evaluating my everyday interactions with that dog. If it is talking back then it thinks my commands are optional. If it is talking back, then it is not complying. In general I do have that "it's my way or the highway" mentality that saddens you so much. If I call my dog, it will come, if it doesn't, I will go & get it. If I ask it to go into the crate, it does, if it does not, I will go put it in. I find my dogs rarely question me because all our history says that it gets them nowhere. I am the opposite, I don't avoid battles of will, but face them as they (inevitably) come up with a puppy. They are an opportunity to set the scene & establish the way things will be. Biting is NEVER tolerated & will be corrected. This is an example of where I see you humanising. A puppy hiding under a chair is generally showing fear, not anger. They don't "want" to bite you as a premeditated thing. When a dog is scared they have 2 options, flight or fight. If they are cornered and have nowhere else to go, some will fight as their flight option does not exist anymore. I see this bite as an instinctual reaction at self preservation, not a planned "if the person comes closer, I want to bite them." Again, I think it's better to go there. In this situation I would calmly reach in & take the puppy & hold it firmly & securely until it relaxed. Then I would go there again, put it down & give it another opportunity to go under the chair again. I would continue to do this until the puppy knew that no harm would come to it in my arms. The important thing for me here is that if my dogs are ever scared, I want them coming to me rather than fleeing. All 4 of my current dogs do this, at different times they have all reacted with fear to various things & their first response is always to come to me & sit beside me. That is exactly how I want it. I am not the best dog trainer in the world, I have certainly had problems with dogs in the past and I am sure I will have problems in the future. But I do feel that my current ideals work for me & my dogs. As I said before, if you are happy with your ideals, then stick to them...but although your questions are always posed as theoreticals, I always sense you are questioning whether what you are doing is working.