Vickie

Probably the best thing they could do is buy a trained dog & find someone close who they can take some lessons from. I know from experience, there is a lot more to it than having a herding breed & some sheep. Even with a very talented dog, there is still SO MUCH to learn. A good dog, badly handled can still ram sheep into fences & break their necks. Equally a young inexperienced dog can also be seriously injured by sheep. Where are they located? Maybe some of us could recommend people we know in the area who might be able to help them a bit.

correct login I find BC's & kelpies seem to run well together as a large pack & both seem less tolerant of other herding breeds than they are of each other. I would be reluctant to run mine with lots of other breeds. I have a friend whose BC bitch I would never run with mine...they just don't get along. I find it interesting a couple of years ago that we sent them around the same large mob of sheep. Not only did they tolerate each others presence & proximity, but they were clearly working as a team.

Missing a contact is a fault but re-entering a completed (even with a fault) obstacle is DQ. So if a dog missed contact & backed up, it should be a DQ. If done at extreme speed, some of these things are hard to judge & most judges would give the benefit of the doubt.

We regularly refer to that as "lack of" contact

Would be very interested in reading this, could you please point me in the direction of where I can find it. Is it the actual running A Frame performance or the amount of repetitions needed to train and maintain it? I think it was in Clean run. Will find it & get back to you. They have proven that the shoulders take more stress on the ascent than the descent & yes, it is related to repitition required to teach it...and the fact that much of the 2o2o can be taught off the obstacle.

A couple of other things about running contacts. There is a study now to say that a running AF causes more stress on joints than a 2o2o. Nobody seems to have 100% accuracy yet They can waste time if there is a tight turn at the end (although people are now teaching a run straight ahead & a run & turn) A running contact is not faster than a 2o2o released early.

OH would keep the boys, the girls would need to go to a friend. Hmmm, I really should think about who that would be

It's very common overseas. Not so common here so far. I don't think most of us are good enough trainers to do it well here in Aus yet. I have promised myself that if I ever have a dog with absolute perfect 2o2o, I will let myself do running on the next one. True running contacts take A LOT of very specific training & repetition & I believe you need your own equip (or access whenever you want) to do it successfully.

We were talking about this today. The comment was "each dog comes to you for a reason" Zac came to me to teach me never to trust someone I don't fully trust with one of my dogs Zeus came to me to teach me patience & that some dogs just can't be trained to fully overcome bad genetics Noah came to me to teach me not to humanize & how to train a dog like a dog Trim came to me to show me what really good breeding can produce & how to fine tune & train beyond the basics of dog ownership Shine came to me to teach me the sheer joy of having a best mate...and that some dogs are simply perfect

Has anyone considered that the lump may in fact be the top of the pup's skull and not anything sinister at all? Many dogs have what could be considered a lump by some at the top of their skull between their ears. trust me it's not her skull, it's huge. If it is her skull then she is severely deformed. It's the size of a golf ball cut in half, remembering she only has a little puppy head. Def does not look natural to me mate. no worries. It is something I have seen people stress over before, so thought it worth mentioning

Working Border Collie (maybe too much to ever get another breed) Malinois (thanks Pax...a breed I had never considered before til I met yours ) Working Kelpie (had them growing up & will possibly have another one one day) Afghan or Saluki (because I just love them) Brittany (because I just love them) Greyhound (being at the pound has made me have to have one, one day) Foxie (being at the pound has made me have to have one, one day) Mini Poodle (b/c I know so many awesome ones) Welsh Springer Boxer

Has anyone considered that the lump may in fact be the top of the pup's skull and not anything sinister at all? Many dogs have what could be considered a lump by some at the top of their skull between their ears.

Attention seeking 101

My now 13 1/2 YO was aggressive at 5 months, both HA & DA. He was basically scared of the world & willing to defend himself. Vet wanted to either PTS or medicate. I went the training option & was lucky...it worked. But it was a lot of bloody hard work! Not sure what the outcome will be here. As PF said, there are things worse than the green dream. The pup may be fine or it may not. The help (if they get it) may be good or it may not. People in rescue see dogs (and pups) like this regularly. The resources are rarely there to even assess them professionally. Poor people, poor pup

I think can is the operative word here. There are plenty of us with working line dogs who have no behavioural issues with them whatsoever. Just reading all of this makes me wonder...we regularly see dogs in the pound showing the same basic issues described in this thread. Some are OK, some are not. None get this kind of attention. Hmmm, maybe we should start posting about them in the General section of DOL, rather than the rescue section... or like MANY, MANY sheep dogs they need longer than 4-5 months to show what they can do! Sadly, this is what "rescue" is becoming also. But that's a whole new topic. AINT THAT THE TRUTH

It is easy to make any scared dog bite if your behaviour around them empowers them.

Where in Sydney is the pup? I would need a lot more info before I would recommend PTS. How experienced is your friend with dogs? with working dogs? I have seen a dozen or so working line BC's & kelpies come at an older age from breeders/triallers/farms who have basically never been handled. Their behaviour is indicatve of their upbringing...or lack of! They are like feral kittens to start. Most of the ones I have seen have come around very quickly with some TLC, trust & boundaries.

Hopefully you have taken the advice (that you asked for people to give) by now. How is she? It is unthinkable to ask any dog to work or do agility after a pony has landed on it & clearly caused physical trauma. I would much rather feel silly (not that I think you should) at the vet & pay a pittance than risk chronic injury for the rest of her days.

I think it's important...just when you think you have proofed something enough, a judge/course throws you a curveball & it's back to the drawing board ;) I'm also trying to get mine to pay more attention to verbals atm. We seem to have a lot of challenges lately that we have to somehow handle from 3-4 jumps away. The ones getting through it can either keep up with their dogs or have great verbals. We have 4-5 weeks off over Christmas and yes, generally start back with some basics.

We're going right back to basics at the moment. Trying to tug them off their contact position Weaving with 3 poles Picking the correct tunnel entrance from a jump right in front Collection & Extension grids Sending around big speed circles I'm finding a number of very basic holes in our training. They are all things we have covered but obviously need a revision course on. Makes me realise that even though my dogs are in Masters, I need to be going right back to the beginning a lot more regularly...Masters courses are after all a complex set of the basics.

Well done Jess sounds like you & Darcy have come a long way to now be getting get 1sts when she used to switch off. Well done too Kavik. I did not see you run at all today, I seem to keep missing your runs. It was a very busy trial with lots going on, so great that you kept his focus. I am very happy with Miss Trim tonight who won Masters Agility for the 2nd week running

I was always advised to put them away to think after sheepdog training & have always put them in a crate after they worked. I haven't consciously done it after other training although it does happen quite a bit so I can get the other dog out.

If he has already entered a phase where he thinks tugging with you is the not best fun ever, you could actually do more harm than good by tugging for free for an extended period. I don't see why you can't do both...

Depends where she's at & what your expectations are. So long as you know she will stay with you in the ring, she is capable of novice type courses in training and you know you can make it fun for her. I say go for it!

Hi Cosmolo, Most people who train agility seriously now do some form of gridwork both exposure grids & remedial grids. I have a few different exercises I do to make sure they learn to judge height & spacing & to teach them to collect & extend at speed and will always continue to run these regularly. I have never done any remedial gridwork yet to change a dogs takeoff point or arc, but many people do. I'm not a fan of remedial gridwork exercises until it is determined there is a problem. There is a trend to start a dog jumping with remedial type exercises & I think dogs need some time & experience to develop a confident jumping style. Most are capable of this without us changing where they take off before they have even learnt to jump.