Vickie

there are some very fast & full on coolies in agility, I love watching them . some of them were probably actually BC's, related to my dogs.

I don't really understand your question about instinct? Are you asking if he will develop undesirable behaviours? He sounds like a nice pet. It is very important to work hard on his recall. I find many dogs go through a stage about 6-8 months where they gain confidence & realize they don't have to cone when called etc. Having a good relationship & recall prior to the 6 mth mark will help you through this stage. my youngest 2 BC's have a heap of instinct & ability on stock & have never done any of the above. They are also great pets.

Thanks guys, hopefully Chloe & Pep can get back to training next week

YOU CAN'T HAVE HER but I think the feeling is mutual

Well done Huski what a great feeling for you & a great story to share

Pep is feeling much better. She was jumping out of her skin this morning Here is a cute clip of her trying to get the ball off Shine. LOL, she did get it in the end.

that is great news just be careful you do not increase the value of other dogs for him by using this as a reward.

I have a couple of dogs coming at the moment who have distraction issues. Here are some of the things that we are working on with them: Rather than small pieces of their favourite food, try carrying a big chunk & breaking pieces off it. Rather than delivering once piece of food for attention/correct behaviour, try delivering multiple pieces. Use a word to let them know that they are working with you. Mine is "ready". The word "ready" means fun & rewarding things are about to happen. Use a bridge word to mark correct behaviour to signal that a reward is coming. Mine is "yes". The above 2 words are practised at in every environment possible, but especially at home. Once you start seeing the desired response to them from the dog, you can start to use them in low distraction environments & work your way to high distraction. If the activity you are involved is not rewarding in itself to the dog, make it an activity that is. Try teaching tricks outside of that activity & use those tricks during downtime when distraction is likely. Keep moving & be interesting. It is a big call to ask a young dog in a distracting environment to sit beside you & watch you while lots of things are going on. Reduce the length of your training sessions. Instead of doing a one hour class, start with 5-10 minutes & build it up. THIS IS THE BIG ONE. Be aware of things that may distract your dog BEFORE your dog is aware of them. Be constantly watching for things that may catch their attention & make sure you get in first. I am not big on leash corrections. Mostly because I believe that the average person does not have the skill nor experience to make it effective. Our training is never done on leash anyway so other methods have to be employed. Hopefully some of the above points give some food for thought.

I don't do offleash parks. I have fears about them as well. I feel my fears are totally rational, as yours are. Have you considered joining the local training club? It might still fulfill your needs, and should be a safer controlled environment.

WEEK THREE: Not much to report this week. It hasn't been a great week for little Pep. (although she still answers to Poppi, she also gets Peppi & more often Pep) She became intermittently lame last Sunday. Chloe & I were quite worried but couldn't see anything. On Monday we noticed a small mass on her stifle. Tuesday it became inflamed. She was booked in to be spayed on Wedneday & was by this stage unwilling to put any weight on her leg. By the time we got to the vet, her inflamed mass was found to be an absess ready to burst. Good news is that it has been burst & treated. Vet thinks either grass seed or spider bite. She is now fully weight bearing & her leg is much more comfortable. She has been very quiet after her op & happy to cuddle up with Chloe in a blanket on the lounge. I guess she's feeling heaps better today as she is eating well & carrying a toy around with her everywhere. It won't be long before we have out peppy Peppi back :p

I love to teach tricks. As well as being heaps of fun, it allows me to practise lots of things that I will later use for competition. I get to build a strong history of reward before I start competition work. I get to see how my dogs brain works. I get to practise my timing. I get to communicate to my dogs that I want quick responses from them. It gives us something to form a relationship with while they are too young to do any serious training. It gives us things to do as warm up exercises. I think the dancing dog was extreme. I am impressed with the training that went into it, but not convinced that the dog was that happy. I LOVE watching focussed heelwork, the happier the dog looks, the better the heelwork is to me.

;) thanks caz I was hoping someone was reading it Poppi spent all day at a trial yesterday, she was fantastic & seemed to thoroughly enjoy herself. She was calm, got lots of cuddles & very happy to trot around next to Chloe all day. Everyone loved her & she was given a great toy & a beautiful collar by a couple of lovely triallers to welcome her :D

I know that feeling! Trim ate a whole tub of butter once. She didn't get sick, just fat! Hope your girls are ok.

I don't believe testing herding instinct, even if it could be done at a show, would do anything to improve a herding breed. Having a bit of instinct to move towards sheep or even the ability to balance does not make a good working dog. The current herding instinct test, as it stands, could allow many herding & non herding breeds to be labelled with instinct. In fact, I believe any dog in the hands of a good trainer can be taught to look as if it has instinct. There are so many complex traits which make a dog worthy of breedng for stockwork. What would testing one or two of them really achieve? Certainly not a better class of working dog. I am sure the same can be said for other types of work in other breeds. FWIW, 2 of the nicest sheepdogs I have ever seen, spent their first couple of sessions on sheep looking like piranhas.

WEEK TWO: Poppi is going well . Chloe has been practising her tricks every day. Here is her doing a touch, sit & spin She is offering the basic weaving motion on 3 poles & is learning to follow Chloe's hands on the flat & change sides. Jumps & tunnel are still a regular part of her zoomies & Chloe is starting to put commands on them as well The hardest part is getting Chloe to remember that she cannot run her like she runs my girls as Poppi doesn't have the training, experience or commitment yet. Tomorrow she is coming to an agility trial with us to cheer the girls on. I think she will be a great cheersquad.

I got working line dogs because: I believe that my breed should ONLY be bred for work, I wanted to do some sheepwork with a dog who was going to be able to do it well after trying it & seeing what I did not want in other lines I totally fell in love with the lines I have when I met them, they are everything I could/have ever wanted in a dog I like the consistency that working lines (when bred correctly) produce & I am not seeing that same consistency in other lines I prefer the structure of working lines & feel it is more suited to dog sports I prefer the temperament of working lines & feel it is more suited to what I want for competition The look of working dogs in my breed is generally more appealing to me I find the working lines I have much easier to live with than the the lines I have & know Obviously many will disagree & I don't mean to offend the owners of lots of nice dogs I know, but these are my reasons.

I know 5 of my neighbours. 4 of them breed their dogs. 3 do it to make money selling the pups, the other one just seems to have a bunch of entire dogs who breed b/c they are not separated. None of them are pure, registered nor worthy of breeding with the exception of one who has been a very good working dog. I have given them my views in the most informative way possible. They don't care. They have made money in the past & I'm sure will make it again. I feel powerless AND THIS IS JUST IN MY ROAD

Where are you when these dogs are approaching? on the street? at the dogpark? at training? Not 100%, but I think it's possible to get pretty close to 100%. It is a very determined & agile dog that gets to my girl when I am defnding her space. I don't concern myself with the people too much, especially if their dog is not under good control. I focus on the dog approaching.

This is a good point & one that no-one has really touched on yet. I was thinking about it last night (while I was supposed to be sleeping ;) ) but didn't feel I had the necessary experience to comment. What I do know is that my dogs & many I have worked go through some stages before they reach full arousal. I know that correcting them at full arousal requires a very strong correction, whereas correcting them at the very first stage (ie as they as they are noticing something which will cause them to react or thinking about reacting) requires a much less intensive correction. I know not all dogs give warning signs, but I think most do, if you watch carefully. One of my older dogs would flick his ear back & lift his tail slightly. A mild correction then was generally effective. Letting him reach full arousal was much more difficult & required a very strong correction. My correction nowadays consists of a well timed "Eh" and if needed a touch on the shoulder. I don't have GSD's or aggression problems but think observing body signals & timing is crucial for the training of any dog & something for Rockdog to research & consider.

videos as requested We have a heap of work to do with toys, bringing them back reliably & releasing the tug :D This is her first target session and Poppi learning to release the tug

I think if you want to gain an insight into his behaviour you will need to stop thinking about dominance, not because it doesn't exist but because it is confusing the issue for you. A dominant dog does not do what you have described in this thread, in these contexts. It is quite common for dogs to want their own personal space. There is nothing wrong with that until the dog is forced to defend his personal space. I am fairly similar in this regard. Dogs will do what works for them, so if aggressive behaviour gets other dogs out of his personal space, that is what he will repeat, he can't ask them to back off any other way. Given that you cannot afford a behaviourist to work with you at this point, my best advice would be for you to defend his space for him. Keep him away from off-leash dogs, ask people to keep their dog away from yours. Continue to socialise him with dogs he knows and accepts in his personal space, and of course, continue with his training. Make training a fun, positive experience so that he does not experience any anxiety about what you might do next and this will give him a safe, reliable leader (you) who has demonstrated that you will keep the dogs he doesn't want in his space, out of his space for him. His trust in you will then continue to grow, and if you're lucky and consistent, he might even just leave it all to you. What a great post Aidan One of my girls needs her personal space, especially when she is focussed at a trial. I do my absolute best to allow her to have it and I am always watching for dogs approaching that may bother her. She has learnt that I will look after her & if worried will always get as close to me as she can. On the rare occasion that we have been out & about & other dogs (not under owner control) have run up to her in a way that makes her uncomfortable, I pick her up & make it my job to get rid of the other dogs. She hangs out happily with lots of dogs, but only ones who I know or whose body language I have observed first. Every now & then she feels the need to give a warning & it is generally appropriate & heeded. If the other dog does not respond, again, I make it my job to remedy the situation. I all her 6 1/2 years, only once has a dog jumped on her & had to be pulled off (no damage done) b/c I misread the dog & the owners ability to read & control it. It won't happen again. I don't consider her to dominant or fear aggressive. She just doesn't like rudeness from other dogs.

Agree with SAS, the only advice anyone should give in a case of escalating aggression is that you seek professional help. Reading your post, you make reference a few times to the fact that he could have done more damage but didn't. If I could offer any advice, i would say to be careful about thinking like this. Most of us will try to excuse & justify when things are not going well, we all do it at times. If you can, try not to. It doesn't really help & sometimes can put us in the wrong state of mind to effectively deal with a problem. I hope you get this sorted soon, it must be very stressful & he sounds like a really nice dog otherwise who you have put a lot of time into.

OMG you poor things! It is bad enough when we feel threatened ourselves, but having to protect your child is totally terrifying. I hope the 2 of you feel better about things soon and I hope the dog is found & somethng is done to prevent this ever happening again. I had an incident with a GSD when my daughter was a newborn. As weird as it sounds being charged by a barking GSD with a newborn in my arms actually turned out creating a wonderful friendship for me. I was lucky that the dog had a serious approach problem, rather than a true aggression problem. So after she scared the crap out of me & I bawled my eyes out clutching my newborn in terror, her owner came to apologise & over the next few weeks & for many years later, we became the best of friends. I ended up loving that dog like I loved my own.

WEEK ONE: Poppi has learnt to sit, has a great start to a recall (both verbal & whistle) and has become comfortable in the backyard by herself or with the other dogs while we are inside. She is also happy in her crate while we are inside or outside. She has learnt that an open door/gate is not an invitation for her to go through & we are using the word "stop" with a hand signal each time we open the door, followed by a "come" if we want her to come in. She has been very good with our other 4 dogs & them with her. Poppi is very interested in tugging & chasing a toy or ball when we throw it. We didn't expect this as she didn't seem interested when in the pound so it has been a great bonus for training. She is mostly bringing thrown objects back to interact with us, but also enjoys zooming around with them. She is very food motivated & is already offering all sorts of behaviours to get the food/toy we have on offer. She is already totally operant after one week. We do 2-3 5 min sessions a day of various tricks wth & without the clicker. We have done some luring & some shaping basic behaviours & she has been quick to work out what we want & offer it to us. She has a hand touch, a foot on a target, the start of a drop, spin & is learning to follow our hands when we run & turn. She has learnt to keep focus on Chloe with a number of distractions so far: other dogs are running around or screaming in protest b/c they are locked up & she is having all the fun, my son playing ball elsewhere in the yard. It is too early to teach Poppi obstacles, however with a backyard full of agility equipment, she has already done most of them herself . Her zoomies regularly include the tunnel, jumps, AFrame & even the seesaw a couple of times (it is set up not to tip for safety). With this in mind and because she is so operant (and b/c my daughter is desperate, LOL), we have spent a very small amount of time rewarding her for taking a jump, tunnel or AF on command. She has also had about 10 minutes being lured through 3 weave poles & is already offering the basic weaving motion. For the next week we will keep working on some tricks , perfecting some she has already learnt & maybe adding a couple, using both food & tug as rewards.

I thought I might start a diary of Poppi's training. Was going to blog it or put it in Word, but thought I may as well do it here, since others may have input or be interested in reading. Background: Peppi is a 12mth old Foxy cross that we picked up a week ago from Hawkesbury Pound. She has recently had pups & came into the pound with milk but no puppies. She has no apparent training & no apparent vices, other than some separation anxiety which is improving every day with firm boundaries & consistency. My 11YO daughter will be training her for agility. They have immediately formed a great bond.