Vickie

I like & use the Blind Cross, but will continue to use front & rears too. I think theres a time & place for all 3.. Like Kristen, I went to Stacy Goudy this year & one of the things she told us was that a front cues collection & a blind cues extension. This makes sense to me & is a good thing to remember when making decisions about courses. Personally I feel more comfortable with a blind than a front if I have to be driving the line after really hard. I'm not sure about this. Yes, a front should cue collection...but if the dog is slowing down too much (more than it needs to to take a turn), it's more likely that the timing of the front is late or that you are FCing on the spot rather than moving through it. Personally, I find timing is more crucial on a blind than a front.

Every year I regret not setting goals in these threads, so here goes :) Pep Although she has a couple of jumping passes, I've not trained or trialled her myself, so... Build her drive up for agility Teach her contacts Get her into the ring happy :) Fly Agility Keep all the enthusiasm she currently has Teach her to turn at speed AD, JD, SPD, SD, GD Fly Sheep Teach her to walk to the peg like a sheepdog, not an agility dog Get her casting in trials like she does in the paddock at training Sharpen up her off balance sides A couple of scores & a pen or 2 Lass Agility Teach her to weave properly Some distance training AD, JDX, SPD, SD, GD Lass Sheep Strengthen her walk up Make a Novice final Give me a baby sheepdog just as perfect as she is Trim Keep her fit & healthy Start her retirement (hopefully without pissing her off too much) Me Spend some more training training my own dogs

Thanks Ness, that's interesting. When Trim collapsed, I pick her up & ran to the dam. Within 5 minutes, she was totally normal & it happened about 6 years ago. I guess she was one of the lucky ones who recovered quickly & suffered no damage from it. The dogs I have seen at trials with heatstroke have also recovered quickly & continue to work without recurrence or damage.

Isn't BCC different to heatstroke/stress? I've seen a few sheepdogs (kelpies & BCs) get wobbly or collapse when working, including one of my own, but they have been isolated incidences, rather than the condition that the OP is talking about. One of the theories given to me when Trim collapsed was that she doesn't work with her mouth open, so isn't releasing the heat through panting. She only did it once though & certainly doesn't have BCC. When you say "pedigree" are you meaning only ANKC pedigreed? Or all the working pedigreed BCs as well?

Wow DD!!!! That is the most awesome news ever Congratulations! What an amazing achievement :)

WOOOOOOHOOOOOO!!!!! I only saw your JDX on Sat and it was brilliant!!! Well done to you & Mindy!!!!

Yes...and no...They do have different personalities, but also very different training experiences.It's hard to say what they would be like if they had been raised the same. Lass was never meant to do agility & I still worry that too much of it will ruin her sheep work so I am careful not to rev her up too much. She is a very honest, biddable dog. I will be happy with whatever she gives me in agility :) :) hard isn't it...

:) sounds like a common theme, Still...better than them shutting down or running slower in trials. They're still babies, good attitude is the most important thing

She's done a couple of trials already, but seems to think trials are for stepping it up a notch, so I haven't managed to keep up and hang onto her yet . I've just entered another few, so hopefully I will be able to get a little more control on her this time round . Are you at the GP Sheena? Kavik? If so, good luck to both of you

Since we are sharing :)... Here is a clip of my young dogs I took yesterday I'm so happy with how they're doing and they are such great fun :)

Wow, he's so cool :). I'm glad you posted this cause I've never really seen him run. For some reason your FB videos will never play for me, but I could see this one on here. He's got such a great attitude :) & looks very confident

I think you are setting really nice lines for him

Great run TSD Zingy looks awesome & your handling is so, so smooth :)

Out of interest, what type of work and/or competition do you train for? Do you have any videos of each of your dogs? Would be interesting to see the differences you are talking about.

I don't think anyone is questioning that high drive dogs in competent hands have more potential with any training method. The theory being put forward (that you seem to be disputing) is that clicker/ R+ training can have significant positive impact on dogs of all drives. I have trained a number of "low drive" dogs now using R+ .Dog 1: Started. hiding in a corner if there was any hint of training. she was so distracted by other dogs, cars, bikes etc that it was impossible to keep her attention. Had zero interest in balls or toys.Finished. Winning a National event. Ended up ball obsessed & has a pretty decent tug. She wasn't low drive at all, she had just had too much pressure put on her too early in her training. Dog 2: Started. Would not accept food or move out of a walk outside of her home environment.Now: currently running qualifying speeds in agility and enjoying it. Still a work in progress & plenty more to come. This dog does not have a high drive, but has learnt to function & succeed in very distracting environments. Dog 3: Started. Plenty of drive, but for all the wrong things. Spent his whole life with his finger up, zero interest in handler, other Dogs wanted to attack him on sight.Now. The model citizen, rarely take his eyes off his owners face, runs freely without offending other dogs, incredible focus in competition. None of these owners set out to achieve more success than others who have dogs with better genetic drives. They set out to improve the life of THEIR dog and the relationship they share. All have worked hard & all have found success in positive training methods. The dogs no longer crumble under pressure or distraction. All have started with food (regardless of drive, all dogs have to eat, right?) and after building reward history & good habits, switched to toys successfully. These dogs might not have the drive to survive in Santo66 world, but they have already exceeded their owners expectations & will continue to do so.

She mentions teaching commitment, independence & sends. It's one thing to trust your dog, but you have to allow/teach them to drive forward first, and recognise when they are doing it,before you are able to trust them to do it. We are getting better, but this IMO, is one of the big things we are still behind in here in Aust.

A brilliant article LOVE IT!

What a great photo RS . She looks so focused & happy!

Maybe not in the world that you live in...but in the world of obedience, agility and a number of other the sports that the majority of this forum have access to, events are often won by damn good trainers who understand how to motivate and train dogs from a number of different genetic backgrounds. What percentage of this forum have access to, experrience or interest in high drive working shepherds for Shutzhund? Or the skills to train them? I would guess not even 1%. So it doesn't matter how many times you explain the same thing, it's simply not relevant to most of us.

This is so true! I have been kind of the opposite...mostly trained normal dogs, but lately I have taken on a number of problem dogs & am amazed at how many of them become normal once their owners start to treat them as normal by being consistent. I am also finding more & more that the very high drive dogs need similar methods to the very low drive dogs.

You make it sound like we, as trainers, have no ability to change/develop a dog's motivation/reward value for food or toys

Well done :) What method are you using?

:) thanks Tony

And one more question? Are the stride regulators still in the same place they started on the AF? Or have you been adjusting the position as you go?

Do you mind if I ask...Did you ask a 2o2o right from the beginning of her DW & AF experience? Or did you put the position on later once she was running them? Thanks, I have seen a few people use stride regulators. Hope it all goes well :)