Vickie

I think that in general, nearly all of the skills you need for Open are the same as the ones you need for regular Agility & Jumping, especially from the Excellent level on. I find I actually use the out command (that I have trained) much less than what you would think. For me, Open challenges are nearly always about setting the right line for my dog. If I need to, I will sometimes take a little time at the beginning of the challenge (before sending the dog over the line) to make sure I get this path right. I also try to find a way to keep moving once the dog crosses the line. Some essentials for Open: A set of consistent handling rules, ie when shoulders are forward, dog does x; when handler turns towards dog, dog does y etc. A good send to a tunnel A dog who is willing to drive forward while the handler is moving Front & rear cross signals/commands Acknowlegement that if wasn't open, you may well be handling at that distance anyway Some traps people fall into: not crossing the line in the walking to have a look at what the dog sees when they are running it Starting the challenge on the line & having nowhere to move once the dog has crossed it Waiting for the dog to come out of a tunnel, when that time could be used to get to the next point you need to be at Throwing your arm up to send the dog and then dropping it before the dog has committed to the obstacle Hope this helps a bit. People tend to panic about the distance & over handle it. Some are very technical, but most a doable if you have trained well for agility & jumping.

I think we, as pet owners training for dog sports, are better looking at these questions in a simple and practical sense, if we need to look at them at all. We tend to want to use labels and definitions that often serve no purpose other than to complicate what we need to know to go forward with our goals. Fwiw, here are my answers as a trainer/competitor who aspires to improve. Who cares? So long as I can get my dog to value the reward experience with me more than anything else, the label of the drive is irrelevant. again, not a question I need to waste time thinking about in order to train my dog well. Same as above I hope so, because I am always seeking to increase my dogs drive to value my reward. Not an important question I need to answer to achieve my goals I am sure you can diminish it, but I am finding drive (any type we use for training) can be connected to the situation. Take a dog that is not responding well to one person with one toy in one place. Changing any or all of these variables can change the outcome. Maybe once you get going with the program, the answers to the above will become apparent. If you're like me, you may find you are too focussed on what you need to do to be bothered asking them anymore.

Thanks everyone . I'm so proud of my gorgeous girl a special thanks to Adriana for videoing & loading it up when I know how tired we all are from the weekend.

Chloe & Peppi got their first pass today & WON Novice Jumping at the Festival of Agility WOOOHOOO!!!! It was a really great run !

Just wanted to clear a couple of things up I agree that the topics in the Agility in Drive seminar should be universal to any agility handling system & any handler wanting to progress in agility. This is a seminar that I asked Steve to put on because I wanted others to experience some of the things he has taught me and how many of these fundamentals we, in Australia lack as an agility community. I assume Megan was asking about a general/training/handling agility seminar rather than a specific "building drive for agility" seminar. My comments about attending an agility seminar, including handling, that I would give were simply to point out the fact that I have a different handling system to the one the Derretts teach, since KC suggested Megan doing both. I see a number of people switching between and trying to combine the two systems & frankly I don't think it works to do so. I believe consistency is important and don't think you can combine the systems consistently, either for handling or training. Saying that, I agree with you KC, that for an experienced handler, there are things to learn at every seminar. I think it is a little harder for people with less experience to recognize conflicts. Sorry Sheena, can't help you with your query.

I would have to disagree with doing both being a win-win. I don't handle nor teach Derrett style agility so it would actually create conflict rather than be complimentary. I am sure there are similarities in all systems with regards to drive & reward building, but there are some vast training & handling differences. I did have conversations with a number of people when I was in melb last year about a non Derrett handling system and it does seem that there is a demand for someone to teach it in Melb. I am not anti Derrett, it's just not how I have chosen to handle.

K9Pro Agility in Drive workshop

Thanks guys . It's very exciting, can't wait to get started. No plans yet Megan but I'm sure that it can be organized once we get a few things up & running. Get on that bike Dasha

Do you mean these smisch? http://sunshoweronline.com.au/products-more.php?catid=77&id=436 I couldn't find the 4 way ones, only the 4 way crossed one

Video! We need video of such things TSD sounds like fun

I'm always looking for 4 way Ts. If you find any, please let me know.

did you know you say that a lot on this forum in regards to dog training?

Lots of positive thoughts for some good news soon.

Well done to you & Bear

You're welcome RS

I think it's fair to say that most Border Collies will be reactive to movement. It is who they are. Most Border Collies also seem to have a strong sense of what is appropriate (or not) for dog to dog manners as well. There are also many BC lines predisposed to fearful behavior. Saying that, as Border Collie owners, we should never let these 3 things excuse bad behavior from our dogs. Having dealt with all 3 issues above in various degrees, my thoughts are: I do not encourage my BCs to socialize with strange dogs, they don't need it. I do not take them to off leash parks, they don't need it. I am always aware of my dogs and what is around them. I make sure I see things before they do. They learn to share food, toys & me with the other dogs from a young age. I will never punish my dogs if they react/discipline/snap at a rude dog running at or jumping on them. I have built a strong reward system with them which means they are more interested in me than in other dogs. I develop a strong bond with them and keep their minds and bodies occupied with training, both sheep & agility. I take advantage of (and encourage) their natural tendency to be tennis ball/toy obsessed. If all else fails, lol, I can use this obsession to distract them from anything they may be reactive to.

Layering is where there is an obstacle between you & the one you are asking the dog to take. You can see it here on the home stretch. We layered 2 jumps (and the judge ). I dont think this one was planned, I just knew she was on the right line and that I didn't have time to get any closer. In some courses you are forced to layer, others it gives you a time advantage. If you have a curved tunnel and the dig needs to do the jumps around the back of it, that is a place where you are often forced to layer.

Hey! Daisy IS fast! I saw her!

hopefully that didn't happen too often. I know people can be rude, but hopefully they were the vast minority

You need to move to NSW AP The 300 height group is growing fast! I think they're starting to outnumber the 600's

"Fast" in agility is more complex than it sounds I think the true definition of fast can be measured in metres/second on a course. Dogs that cover the ground the fastest are not necessarily fastest on course if they take wide turns or inefficient lines between obstacles. Dogs that appear to move very fast will also often be beaten by a slower looking dog who takes less strides between obstacles. Fast Dogs who jump inefficiently or too high etc can also be beaten by slightly slower dogs who almost touch the bar as they jump. Some courses will suit some dogs more than others. The very fastest dogs move fast, take large strides, turn tight, jump efficiently & are well handled. Obviously some dogs will be much faster than others due to breed/breeding. All we can really aim for is to get the best out of the dog we have

In my mind what is most important is the dog's enjoyment. Personally, I think the faster they are going, the more they are enjoying themselves. It is possible to have speed AND control. If you take the speed out, it will be very hard to put back in and there are plenty of teams running around to prove this fact. I would rather my dog do 3 obstacles at speed than 20 without it. I would rather DQ on a fast & fun run than qualify on a messy or slow run. Either way, it sounds like you are not ready to compete yet, it will probably take the same amount of time to get ready, whether you decide to slow him down, or learn to handle the speed. Only difference will be the dogs happiness at the end...

I would never try to slow your dog down KTB. There are many handling options if your dog is faster than you. Lead outs obviously help, I don't think the position you leave them in matters. Dogs have amazing peripheral vision. Even without a verbal command they can read a turn when you are behind them. Some distance handling, both from behind & laterally will always be needed fir a dog faster than it's handler. Most handlers can catch even the fastest dogs up in the weavers 2o2o + 4 on the floor or contacts also give you a chance to catch up if needed. I don't know anyone who wants their dog to stop at the top of the AF, most are trying to train that out. Many people have verbal turn commands, but dogs will generally respond to physical cues over verbal ones. People with fast dogs also use layering as a tool, where there may be obstacles in between the handlers path & the obstacles the dog is performing. Obviously the aim is for the dog not to be making up their own mind on course, but it does happen with lots of dogs of all speeds, not just the fast ones.

Agreed! It's impossible for anyone to give advice on this situation or determine if the dog really is acting aggressively over the Internet. Please separate the dog from the children until you see Steve. If you don't feel you will be able to manage this, I would be boarding her till you get an assessment done. It may not be as bad as it sounds, but better not to take any further risks.

Not a ramble! That was great to read . Sounds like you are having awesome fun & the bonus is that Trixie will make you a better handler for Kyzer too