Vickie

If anything herding instinct tends to be more about running around obstacles and flanking from the handler under arousal. Agree totally AD. IMO it's all pressure related. Some of the widest casting sheepdogs I've seem tend to be wide naturally in agility & some of the tightest dogs I've seen on sheep tend to be tight in agility. I've observed this in 5 of my own as well as many others. Doesn't mean it can't & shouldn't be addressed in training, but I find correlations between the 2 things it's the only aspect of instinct I see transfer from one activity to the other.

I'm pretty late on this one, but have taught many dogs who started by jumping & biting. None were hard to fix :) The 5 biggest reasons for it I see are: 1. Handler watching dog too much & not setting good lines. 2. Dog lacks understanding of parallel position (related to above since handler is often not actually running parallel) 3. Handler not reading dogs commitment to obstacles 4. Too much standing still or decel & sending so dog is confused about whether decel means collect or drive forward 5. Handler "buys in" to dog jumping up by reinforcing it Leaving the course or stopping the dog is a bandaid. It will not fix the problem & can easily reduce drive IMO it is never related to herding instinct

But there are plenty of main registered BC's with pricked ears in Aust. and plenty of main registered non allowable colours too. It seems acceptable amongst the community to main register them and breed from them...they just don't show them. I think its even more the case overseas. The BC's shown overseas are predominantly Aust lines & their deviation to the original working dog seems even more exaggerated. That is pretty much what happens anyway in BCs, despite the limited register I have owned 2 main register BC's with ABCA/ISDS pedigrees. Has this changed now? ANKC registered both of mine.

Reminder that there's only 3 weeks to go till the Sydney Sheepdog Championships & Yard Trial. Hope to see some of you there! Admission is Free, will be a great weekend. Check out our website for updates www.sydneysheepdogclub.com.au

Does anyone know if there is somewhere I can see the dogs picked up to go to blacktown over the weekend? Or do we need to wait till Tuesday?

Awesome we'll see you there

Which behaviours are you shaping? My terrier is brilliant at shaping, she totally gets the game and thinks & acts very deliberately. Of the 8 BCs I've had: 2 were a nightmare to shape 2 were brilliant to shape And the other 4 can do it with varying levels of frustration, but it's not the best training tool for them. I very rarely shape behaviours that are important to me. We do muck around shaping silly tricks, but anything that I need to be perfect, I prefer to lure & reward. I find it quicker & it allows me to present the exact picture I want, right from the beginning. A typical Border Collie's (and kelpie's) worst nightmare is for their owner to be standing staring at them & waiting for something. Lots, but not all will resort to manic behaviours and/or barking. Obviously if you are a very experienced trainer, your observations & timing & constant communication will reduce frustration, but it takes a while to get to that point for most. If you start with shaping & get barking or overexcitement right from the beginning, you are setting a precedent for future training. Most of mine (haven't taught the pup yet) are able to watch me do agility with my other dogs if they are in a Lie Down stay. Because they're in a trained behaviour, they are doing a job and they have been taught to wait for a release. They are more likely to bark in a closed crate.

Have pm'd you Julie

:) I can guarantee you're not alone there! True. They are very different activities though...sheep work is so much about instinct whereas agility is not at all about instinct.

Be warned Kavik , I remember taking a very young Trim to the last big sheep trial in Sydney...I knew then & there that I would be out there with a dog one day. It's taken a few years, but now that I'm doing it, agility has definitely taken a back seat.

It's very exciting And something you would generally have to travel a few hours to see. I'm pretty sure it clashes with Goulburn agility trial

I posted this in training but realise a lot of people don't go there, so thought I'd add it here as well... For those interested in coming along to watch, or compete, we are holding a 3 Sheep & Yard trial in Sydney next year. We have started a website: http://sydneysheepdogclub.com.au/ And Facebook page: https://www.facebook...b?ref=bookmarks Any questions/comments/feedback welcome :)

For those interested in coming along to watch, or compete, we are holding a 3 Sheep & Yard trial in Sydney next year. We have started a website: http://sydneysheepdogclub.com.au/ And Facebook page: https://www.facebook...b?ref=bookmarks Any questions/comments/feedback welcome :)

I have a young dog who barks going to the startline in agility, but now as soon as I put her in a down she will stop & focus. She pretty much never barks on course. Initially she would bark in any position she was waiting for release from, ie startlines, contacts, table. I introduced the word "good", nice calm long drawn out word. Initially paired it with treats, but don't need to anymore. I can see her visibly go down just a notch when I say it. She's still high as a kite, lol, but it seems to be enough to stop the barking. She still barks on her way in until I engage with her, but I can cope with that. Interestingly enough, I was working with one of your pups a bit yesterday Lablover. She was anticipating the behaviour we were asking for & her barking clearly said "get with the program you idiot, I'm doing it! Either release or reward me!" Gorgeous pup, super smart & full of drive. Since the behaviour will also require duration, we tried the gooooooood word with her & she was settling a bit on it & the barking stopped. I think it's easy to create/allow barking in a young high drive dog & once you have it, it can be very hard to get rid of. I know nothing of retrieving, but in agility foundation it is often the handler moving (mentally) too slowly for the dogs learning capability.

Maybe you could combine activities to make the travel worthwhile. There are a few people who travel to Sydney every fortnight or month and do an activity in the morning, have lunch and a break & then another activity in the afternoon. I know a few people who do agility in the morning & herding in the afternoon and a few more who do agility in the morning & retrieving in the afternoon. There are plenty of options for each activity :)

I see exactly this in my yard every day Fly is the trigger dog. When she runs, they all run.Zep & Lass work Fly & Trim works Lass. Only difference at my place is that there's an evil terrier who occasionally blasts into the middle of it all

Not true. Some dodgy breeders with inferior dogs DO advertise pups for pet homes.I think you missed my point. My point is that you can't guarantee the ideal pet based on the DOL classification of the breeder. My point is that your best chance of finding a dog to suit you is to get to know the breeder & their dogs. My first 3 BC's were chosen without knowledge of the breeder or their dogs. 1 was a great dog, the other 2 had issues that made them not great pets. My last 5 were chosen with a lot of knowledge about the breeders & the lines. There have been no surprises & they have each been exactly what I wanted. Despite that...I have loved each of them the same and they have each taken me on a different journey.

Paws22, Just remember, you are getting responses from passionate & knowledgeable and sometimes biased people on here. Many of us want to protect the breed (and sometimes we want to protect different things to each other), so will have strong views. What is ethical to some will not be ethical to others. I know Border Collies who are wonderful pets from show, working, performance, pet & colour breeders.I also know Border Collies who are shocking pets from all the above groups. My best advice is to get to know some breeders & spend time with their dogs. You will likely fall in love with a certain type or a certain line...then your choice is easy. And...whatever you get, you will love because Border Collies are the best :)

I'm not sure that's true, but if it were, it's only because of the volume of coloured sports bred dogs that 3-4 breeders produce for agility. 35% of BCs at the recent agility nationals were produced/owned by 4 breeders who primarily breed colour. I bet that percentage would have been a lot higher at the Sydney nationals.

We came SUPER close on the weekend!!! Got to the pen, but the sheep came out, put them back in & ended up 6th out of 90 odd dogs, 3 points & one spot off making the final Got 3rd in the Encourage tho :)

Chester brought joy to so many of us through your stories and photos CM. The end of an era, yes. I'm thinking of you. He was a very special boy & you shared so much together.

And this one

I like the condition this lab looks to be in...very different from the one in the OP and in fact, more similar in weight to Aussielovers dog.

I hear this all the time from people I teach, both with BC's and other breeds. It drives me nuts! Why does it drive you nuts? The fact people do it or the fact people talk about it? It drives me nuts because I don't see any benefits to an overweight dog. It drives me nuts because it is rarely just a kilo. It drives me nuts because coat & fat cannot substitute for substance. It drives me nuts because working condition is not the same thing as lack of or reduced fat. Overweight dogs knock up quickly, are prone to injury and are often often have handlers who expect more from them than the dogs condition allows. Overweight dogs are everywhere...pets, showring, agility, obedience etc. I've never seen an overweight dog at a sheep trial. They would be knocked up after the cast, so there would be no point trialling them. In agility, they tend to not get results so things change. Maybe if overweight dogs did not get results in the showring, their incidence there would be less.

I hear this all the time from people I teach, both with BC's and other breeds. It drives me nuts!