poodlefan

Bullshit. Most will retreat. The threshold at which a dog 'fights back" and the damage it does vary widely. Most dogs snap or don't bite down when defending. This dog was at the extreme end of the scale. Oh and by the way freezing is regarded by many dog professionals as precursor to serious acts of aggression. Its red flag behavour that sadly isn't recognised as such by many folk. I don't think they should pay with surgery and loss of appendages for their mistake but that's just me. On this forum we often wonder about the background of such dogs. Perhaps you could shed some light? How old was dog? Did it atttend any puppy or training schools to be socialised outside of its family? Was it desexed? Was it allowed inside? Fair enough, blast me with your opinion, oh Dog expert. After the stupidity of the last 'dog expert' that deemed him dangerous, I rarely take into consideration what any acclaimed 'dog expert' has to say. Including you. Your opinion is like everyone elses - an opinion. "most dogs snap or don't bind down when defending" - bear in mind that he did bite the first man. When the second man came to 'confront' the dog (i'll put it nicely), that's when things got bad. And where are your statistics for this? Are they YOUR statistics, or are they taken off a website? Is your opinion based on what you've heard? HOWEVER, it is the victims' word against the dogs' word. They could have been shooing them away, or throwing sticks at them to scare them for all we know - but unfortunately dogs are unable to share their side of the story. All I have to say to you is that this dog was bought from the pound because his owner could not afford to look after him. We took him in and gave him a loving home. He had access inside and outside at all times. If no one was home, he had big, open and cool downstairs area/garage to rest in. He was not desexed and you can call us horrible, bad owners all you like. I couldn't care what you thought. He didn't attend puppy schools because when we got him, he was not a puppy. Young, but no puppy. He was socialised quite often with other dogs. When we flew in Marley (a puppy at the time) from the eastern states, they were fantastic with each other. You cannot know the mentality of every dog. You cannot claim that MOST dogs would flee. This dog is not MOST dogs. It is A dog. A unique dog, just like every f***ing dog is unique,. As for him being dangerous to strangers? We've had many friends come over that he had not known. Not once did he bite. He did not bite the rangers when they dragged him away. He did not bite anyone after he was stuck in a cage for months which, as you MUST agree, would be very detrimental to his mentality. So you can take your bullshit opinion and shove it up your arse, oh know-it-all. It seems you need to think beyond your understanding of all dogs. The dog's word? Really? It seems you need to think beyond your knowledge of one dog - and that you did not know it as well as you thought you did. Did you know this well trained loving animal had the capacity for aggression it displayed. My guess is not. Listen up. In most serious dog attacks the dog conforms to a profile. Young, not well socialised as a youngster, male and undesexed. Often it performs a guarding or hunting role. Breed can play a part. This dog appears to fit the profile Add the presence of a bitch in season and you had all the ingredients for serious trouble. It seems in biting two people the dog was not protecting itself but acted when the bitch was taken by the collar. So all your words about dogs acting in self defence didnt' apply at all. The dog itself wasn't under direct threat at all. It was prepared to act out in its interests, not its defence. Its interests lay in defending a bitch in oestrus. You didn't witness the attack. You don't know how it went down. Yet you defend a dog you describe as a paragon of canine virtue for maiming one person seeminly acting in its interests and another who went to his aid. Nice work. Dog aggression and human aggresion are very infrequently linked. It doesn't matter how good this dog was with other dogs. Perhaps if you spent less time on the insults and more time reading about dog aggresson you might learn something. Any ranger who went near this dog without a catchpole needed their head read. This attack did far more than cost a dog its life and a man his freedom. My sympathies lie primarily with the people this dog's actions affected MOST. Perhaps you might at least acknowledge the impact on the victims of the attack rather than blaming them for it. Go do your homework on precisely how a dog has to bite to remove fingers. That's rear molar work and there's nothing warning at all in that kind of bite. That's meaning serious business. The whole point of collecting information on serious dog attacks is to prevent them. There were red flags all over this incident. Maybe if you learn what they were, you can prevent another dog, another owner and more victims from suffering the same fate. Start with the book Fatal Dog Attacks and count your blessing this wasn't one. No one wins in these situations. No one. I may not be the "expert" you sarcastically refer to me as but I know enough to know that this dog is not one I'd like to see loose in my community. I can appeciate the owner's grief for his dog but the dog's actions placed lives at risk. Reflect on that before you dust off more insults please.

What if..............they were bogans What if............. it had always been their dog? What if..............it was a restricted breed & they were trying save their sorry asses? Plenty of ''what ifs'' that fit án often played out scenario. What if... you read the news article Dougie. That's all any of us have to go on. ??? However, I have read the article & more than once. None of it suggests a SBT. Did you miss this bit?

What if..............they were bogans What if............. it had always been their dog? What if..............it was a restricted breed & they were trying save their sorry asses? Plenty of ''what ifs'' that fit án often played out scenario. What if... you read the news article Dougie. That's all any of us have to go on.

In some breeds it was done to prevent damage. Once the reason for the damage no longer occured, it was done for cosmetic reasons only.

Because it's considered to be a barbaric practice that no longer has any justification and is not in the interests of the dogs. Outside of working livestock guardian circles, its done for cosmetic purposes only, to pups old enough to feel it and it's not a nice procedure. To summarise: It's cruel.

Yes, it's illegal here. Not a fan. I think Great Danes look noble with the ears they are born with.

Yikes

Good stuff. Would also suggest K9Pro. And seriously - stay out of the dog park in the interim. Or at least don't encourage other dogs to approach.

Totally agree. For a family seeking an active, affectionate family pet, they deserve to be far more popular.

What then? Follow the advice I give to any novice owner seeking a rescue dog. Adopt from a responsible rescue organisation that users foster carers and does comprehensive temperament testing. It won't guarantee safety but it will sure help.

Yet people adopt dogs from the pound, have no idea of their background, and don't have these sorts of issues. Sadly, not all are as lucky.

Wiseguy: Yes this could've been a lot worse had a brave parent not rescued the poor boy. This incident has left a poor boy in hospital and all you care about is trying to divert the attention onto the pitbull. Not one person on this thread as diverted the blame onto the breed (which is a step forward), everyone has posted rational comments and if new dog owners happen to read it they may learn something. No offence guys but can you keep the APBT vs SBT bashing for the BSL thread. Some of us genuinely don't give a damn what breed of dog it was. And, no, the irony of those statements isn't lost on me.

I don't care how many reasons you give for this dog's behaviour. The dog attacked someone trying to catch it and its bite amputated another man's fingers. That to me indicates an absence of bite inhibition that make this dog unsuitable to be in any community. You have to think beyond your understanding of the dog and deal with the possible consequences of any further escapes. The dog is dangerous to strangers. Nothing you do will change that. Bullshit. Most will retreat. The threshold at which a dog 'fights back" and the damage it does vary widely. Most dogs snap or don't bite down when defending. This dog was at the extreme end of the scale. Oh and by the way freezing is regarded by many dog professionals as precursor to serious acts of aggression. Its red flag behavour that sadly isn't recognised as such by many folk. I don't think they should pay with surgery and loss of appendages for their mistake but that's just me. On this forum we often wonder about the background of such dogs. Perhaps you could shed some light? How old was dog? Did it atttend any puppy or training schools to be socialised outside of its family? Was it desexed? Was it allowed inside?

An adolescent large breed of dog that only sees kids occasionally could be inclined to knock them for six DP. If the kids aren't residents of the home, your brother will also have to go out of his way to socialise the pup around kids and put a lot of effort into teaching it not to mouth, chase and jump on them. Not saying don't get a large breed, just that it will entail extra effort.

Thank you for being much nicer about telling me I was doing the wrong thing!! I will use the technique of putting her outside if she does someting wrong and I will make sure I don't sit down anymore at the dog park. I will also make sure she needs to come to me for attention. Thank you very much. *sigh* I may not have sugar coated my advice Leela but its a pity you've failed to grasp the potential severity of what you're dealing with. That's assuming of course that what you posted was accurate. If you're going to back pedal now, then reread the title of this thread and have a think about how serious it sounds. If it provokes your dog into attacking them and you do it without seeking their owner's permission, then yes it is. If you weren't sitting on the ground anymore, it might have been an idea to mention that. And sometimes when you punish it, you are reinforcing it too. That's why a professional who can see and evaluate the dog is the only wise course of action with escalating aggression. My dogs have been attacked 4 times by GSDs owned by people who didnt' understand and couldn't control their dogs. One attack was quite serious. I guess that makes me a bit sensitive to the idea of a person with a young GSD showing potentially serious behaviour who's taking it to public dog parks. Why would you take a dog you say won't let another dog near you to a dog park and then encourage others to come to you? It makes no sense at all to me. Maybe you need to see ithis from the perspective of other park users. Your outline of the situation led me to believe that you have embarked on course of action that may result in a serious aggression incident. It seemed you were unaware that you were creating the circumstances for your dog's aggression and failing to heed the warning signs of escalating behaviour in both her and your other dog. I thought that called for serious advice. I made no personal comments about you at all. What you've inferred from my advice is beyond my control.

Unless Akira goes to doggy daycare 5 days a week, I'd argue your situation is quite different.

I didnt' say anything about the socialisation benefits (which by the way may not be all positive). I was concerned about the ability for the dog to bond with an owner who will only see it for a few hours a day and seemingly won't be involved in its training. If it's to be kept outside, it will almost be at the stage of a part-time resident.

I appreciate that you're only helping DP but your brother should train the dog himself. It's an important part of forming a bond of trust and confidence between dog and owner. If the dog will spend most of its days with you and be trained by you, I'd be questioning how effective a bond it will have with him.

You need experienced professional help. Your dog has had three months of training to behave aggressively to other dogs. Now she's hitting maturity. DON'T sit on the ground in dog parks. They aren't petting zoos. You should be concentrating on what your dog is doing and you can't act quickly to control her if you're on your bum. In addition to making yourself a sitting duck for a serious collision, you moving will decrease any territorial inclinations your dog might have. Moving around the park also tends to diffuse stands offs with other dogs. Make yourself a target for other dog's attentions and you may be encouraging her to resource guard you. You are simulataneously offering an invitation to other dogs to greet you with a dog likely to behave aggressively towards them in your lap. Worst case scenario would see a dog fight break out in your lap. I fail to see how you could know anything of the kind. I think you need to treat the matter more seriously. If she puts a puncture mark in the wrong dog, you'll be staring down the barrel of a dangerous dog declaration and all the pain that goes with it. Personally, I think a dog that's putting teeth on another dog shouldn't be in a dog park at all. Get some help before the behaviour escalates. In the meantime stay out of the dog park.

There's a double whammy in action here. The kind of owner to take on a dog without knowledge of its background is probably the same kind of owner who's going to have trouble handling any issues that arise. That kind of owner IMO is a novice who doesn't think that temperament testing might be necessary. I honestly think some owners see all dogs as the same basic behaviour in different shaped packages. So they get a dog from the paper, from a friend or from a pound or shelter and never anticipate issues. When they come they don't have the knowledge or skills to deal with them. Why wouldn't such an owner take a new family dog to got pick up the kids? Why wouldn't such an owner drop a lead or allow it to be pulled away by a strong unfamiliar dog. And why wouldn't an owner be paralysed into freezing when their dog attacked someone. That's why it behoves those who place dogs into such homes to make damn sure that a novice owner can deal with them. If that dog was rehomed by a rescue or shelter without temperament testing then I know where I'd be placing liability for what happened.

Threshold question.. what is there in your apartment that's green? Where does your pup toilet - is it one of those loos with the fake grass. If so, has the pup been chewing it?

BB is a franchise and I don't doubt there are some decent franchisees. But every issue your dog has is not related to its status in a pack. It shits me to tears to hear advice based on this handed out to owners of baby puppies in particular. Anyone hearing this stuff would think dogs spend their whole lives trying to get the better of us in a contest of dominance. Are there extremely dominant dogs? You bet. But "one size fits all" training solutions are doomed to fail, sometimes with serious consequences. Friend of mine got BB in to help with resource guarding issues. Solution offered was a squirt bottle. Dog went on to give her 20 stitches over a cooked chop bone it had grabbed. I call that a fail.

She's young and without help, the behaviour may escalate. I appreciate how difficult this is but without professional help this dog is likely to bounce out of any potential home - compounding her anxiety.

I seem to recall Bairnsdale might have last year. I love Ozentries but hate it when I've paid for postage and the clubs don't post out numbers. Its not like you get a refund. If they aren't intending to post, they shouldn't charge the fee.

Two tiers of rings on quite a steep hill. Some (limited) parking at the top of the rings but most is back towards the entrance. Seems to be either dusty or muddy dependent on the weather. Not one of my favourite grounds. Unlike Adelong