poodlefan

I'm neither interested nor engaged in a pissing contest about whose knowledge or management of dogs is superior. Interesting that its the second time you've suggested that this is what's occuring. Not at this end, that's for sure. I haven't suggested anything you've said is bullshit or dogma. I have suggested that many of the reasons trotted out in desexing arguments are that. I listed examples of such "bullshit". Let's hark back to the post that started this thread Help how? we asked. One response was that the dog wouldn't grow to be as strong. It's an adult dog! Then there was this: Many people posted that this wasnt' their experience with entire males. You're arguing one thing and I'm arguing another. I"m certainly not arguing against desexing pet dogs. I'm not saying desexing has not effect on dogs. What I'm saying is that desexing with the expectation that an operation alone will eliminate unwanted behaviour is unlikely, particularly on an already mature dog. I'm also saying that any view of all entire males dogs as hard to handle is flawed. If this owner needs to be convinced to remove his dogs testicles, arguments with some factual basis should be used. Honestly, if people want to remove every vaguely male behaviour from a dog (and gee some folk seem to) I wonder why they buy males in the first place.

Yes, there ARE good reasons. The assertion that it will magically make a dog more "manageable" is not one of them. It's got nothing to do with anyone's perception of their superior handling ability - the myth that an entire male will need more handling is in many cases just that - a myth. I listen to a lot of reasons for desexing dogs and many of them are quite frankly, bullshit. It won't stop dogs learning to cock their legs, or stop them peeing in the house or, in many cases be a cure for aggression. It won't guarantee a dog won't become an escape artist, especially if you leave it in a back yard to go half spare from boredom. It's no guarantee of curing leg humping, pulling on lead, or other behaviours that require training, not a surgical cure. It will prevent some cancers and it sure as hell will stop a dog siring unplanned litters. It also makes a dog's pee far less pungent. So lets be realistic about what desexing does and what it will achieve. At the same time, lets acknowledge that there are plenty of entire male dogs out there that don't display undesireable behaviours. That's all I ask. Am I in favour of desexing all male dogs who will not be used for breeding? Absolutely - but not as baby puppies, when they are fully grown and with acknowledgement that its not a cureall for undesirable behaviours. The advocation of a practice without a reasonable understanding of its benefits and limitations falls into the realm of dogma to me (no pun intended). If anyone wishes to educate others about why dogs should be desexed, they need to do better than that. The dog in question in this thread has all the hallmarks of a good potential fighting or bait dog. I'd be telling this guy that desexing this dog would make it far less attractive to the kind of scum who'd steal him for that. It would be the truth.

Don't rush him into training. Let him grow and mature first. The sports vet who's "dont desex before age 14 months" advice many agility folk swear by is in the USA. She's seeing dogs who are chronically unsound by age 5 from careers in flyball.

Actually my parents and I were on the Committee of a Club that was also in that ideal world and ticked all of the above boxes. That should have been Augusta by the way.. I'm no golfer.

Interesting question and one that confronts owners of a hell of a lot of breeds. To look at it another way, does satisfying a particular drive create more of a problem for the ongoing management of a dog than never allowing that? Most folk tell me that an experienced stud dog is more of handful in that regard than a dog that's never had a mating.

I'd give it a qualifed "maybe". You may not see regrowth where there's been scarring and you can help it along with something like Vitamin E oil or Bio Oil.

Vet, the sooner the better. Sounds like it might be an abcess on a tooth to me. If it is, she'd be in a lot of pain.

It may well be. Rightly or wrongly, its owner doesn't want to desex it. Suggesting that desexing it will make it any easier to handle was what triggered the dissenting views in the first place. Desexing alone won't make it any smaller, any less strong or any less likely to pull. As I said in my first post, desexing is not a substitute for training and shouldn't be sold as such. Those arguing for desexing (and I am often one of them) need to come up with legitimate arguments or hold their tongues. They also need to be well informed about what desexing will and won't mean for an individual animal. A friend of mine got the third degree from a vet nurse not long ago. "your dog is old enough now to be desexed" she was told. "Yes" she said "but I'm showing this dog". "oh that doesn't matter, you can still do that when he's desexed". Ah, no.. or not for a title anyway. It's not "selfish" to keep a dog entire if you can responsibly manage its behaviour and prevent it from siring unplanned litters. Plenty of people manage to do just that and plenty of folk have legitimate reasons for delaying or not having a dog desexed at all. I can't see what the problem is with that view.

If you tell us where you live (city or town) you'll probably get some recommendations

Join a dog training club.. you can continue to teach him more behaviours and you'll have an instant and ongoing source of dog friends for him.

My advice is based on the fact that you've expressed that you are having issues with this dog. You're now confronted with a more challenging dog - one that doesn't respond to your existing training skill set. One that has some gaps in its training and that may be a tougher proposition in terms of temperament. A decent professional will have more skill than you - both in analysing the dog, your response to it and its "fit" within your existing dog/human pack AND more tools in the solutions toolbox. If you cant' afford to get professional help then IMO there's only one real option - return the pup to the pound.

There is no one easy solution to these issues. What's needed is a range of approaches.. some carrot some stick. Dogs may die every day but each deserves a chance of life if its offered. This pup is one of the lucky ones.

Get some qualified and experienced professional advice. If you rehome a dog with issues, chances are he'll bounce from home to home until someone bites the bullet and addresses them. I can't see the pup but it sounds unsocialised, it probably has little bite inhibition, is the product of little or no training and quite dominant in personality. No amount of training will change personality and the mix with your existing dog may be a poor one. But get a professional view from someone who can see the dog in the flesh. In the meantime, keep him out of the dog park. How recent was the adoption?

Sorry but a ban on trading ivory keeps elephants alive. A ban on giving a BYB pup a home will mean its death. I'm not comfortable with that. No 'breeder' is going to keep these pups - they'll be dispatched or impounded to receive the same fate. I think a slightly longer term strategy would be a better option. Imagine a world in which desexing your dog meant free council registration - that would be a good start.

You can hide with me if you like. My showing day will be over by the time Sess is on.

What breed Stitch? Go for Junior or Performance kibbles - higher fat content is what you're looking for.

Amen to that. A friend of mine who's owned registered purebreds all her life has Maltese/Silky cross she saw in a pet shop window heavily discounted the day before Good Friday. Pup was 11 weeks old and had been in that window for about 5 weeks I think. The shop let her beat them down on price to bugger all and she got them to throw in a whole lot of goodies. She walked out twice during the bargaining. She knew very well what would happen to that pup if she didnt' buy it. Will she ever buy another pet shop pup? I very much doubt it but I can't condemn her for wanting to see that pup get a happy ending. And she did. She's 14 years old now. Bloody hard to hold tight to the "don't support BYB/puppy millers" line when you're staring at the innocent victims of their practices.

Have to agree - if there's one breed missing it's the Malinois Probably came in at No. 2 but the poodle refused to share billing with it. Maybe the list should be retitled. "Dogs most likely to cooperate with human demands". Anyone with hounds knows they ain't dumb. But you sure recognise that moment in training when they run up the "this isn't fun any more" flag.

No I wouldn't mention that although it proved the seats clean up well Seats? None got on the seats.. it was all on ME!!

Did someone say bunny?

Err why? Because early desexing affects bone density/growth and some agility folk wouldn't desex a male dog before about age 14 months... if at all.

Yep, so I can report that it fits 2 Borzoi, a very special Whippet, a princess Toy Poodle, 2 Showies, a large x pen, a show trolley, a gazebo, gazebo sides, a large mat, water container, bowls, chairs, grooming boxes, 2 Macca drive through coffees ........ And our luggage! ;) (Perhaps I shouldn't mention the time the Toy Poodle threw up on me and then begged for Twisties )

Ooh how excitement. I can vouch for their comfort - Diva chauffeurs me to shows from time to time.

Good idea!

Paps do shed and they certainly tend to be very active and animated dogs.